I thought the general consensus was that Jasmine was controlling Cordelia. Cordy's still the same person we knew; she was just under something else's control.

From last week's adrenaline pumped cliffhanger - which IMO was one of the very best crafted "Angel" episodes I'd ever seen - we get this lame wrap-up?

Angel "beats back" the insectoid beasties by raising the glowing blue tchotchke in his hand?

Connor has a wide-open chance to off his daddy's vamp-pack and Jasmine conveniently stays his hand?

Connor's asinine "po, po pitiful me" soliloquy?

The grand temple to "Jasmine" in the hell dimension just happens to be that same stone room (slightly re-dressed) that Angel curiously always seems to find himself in whenever he shifts dimensions? And all Angel has to do to get the true name of "Jasmine" is punch out "knit-lips" and conveniently leap back through the blue glowy tchotchke and unleash "knit-lips" knit lips at precisely the correct time to melt Jasmine in front of her world press ( - a "world" press that barely filled the hotel lobby set, by the way, since you could see actual FLOOR between the extras)?

This is what the whole season had lead up to? THIS?

Granted, the moral wrinkle that Jasmine offered towards the end was an interesting twist. But c'mon - that was sooooooo poorly executed and should have been more fully integrated into the storyline previous to this point.

Too much story. Too late the twist. Too little execution.

"Why aren't I bursting into flames?"

Well to answer that question I have to take you back to the very first season when Angel killed the then head of Wolfrma & Heart. The guy was a vampire who tried to kill Cordelia, and Angel went into Wolfram & Heart to tell the guy to leave Cordy alone, or else. The office they were in was well lit, and this was during the day. Angel kicked the vamp out the window "Can you fly?". Im guessing the windows have a tint on them so Angel wont go bursting into flames.

Thank you, grunter. I thought I was the only one who thought this was an incredibly lame episode and a wholly unsatisfying "end" to the season. (Yeah, I know there's still an episode left, but I have little hope for it now.)

The whole Cordy/Beast/Jasmine arc boils down to a fight by Angel in another dimension and a punch to the head by Connor???

It actually reminded me of the wrap-up of the Adam storyline in Buffy Season 4 (which is not a good thing).

Very, very disappointing.

I'm totally speculating, but I got the very strong impression from watching this episode that the whole Jasmine plotline was cut short and maybe whole subplots were dumped.

This episode felt rushed and the storyline could have been fleshed out to occupy two episodes pretty easily IMO. Prime examples off the top of my head: more time with Angel in the other dimension; an extended final battle with Jasmine and setup for it; not to mention having Gunn, Wes, Fred and Lorne trapped together in a cage-it seemed like an opportunity to further address/resolve relationship issues between Wes, Gunn and Fred with Lorne as the referee.

Why would they cut the arc short? To make room for ME to shoot an episode to show off the new direction for Angel to people at Fox and WB. Kind of like a second pilot to convince WB to pick up Season 5. I could be totally wrong, but that's what I was thinking the minute I saw the promo for the next episode.

Is it me, or does Angel season 4 feel like Buffy Season 4?

Starts nice and normal....

Introduction of a potential big bad (Dr. Walsh vs. Rock Demon) that is killed way before it should have been.

Introduction of a new, lame big bad (Jasmine vs. Adam) that is killed one episode before the finale.

A finale that has little to do with the rest of the season...

hmmm.
-r

<B>jackepstein</B>,

Heh ... I made this exact comparison to a coworker this morning.

das

Actually the guy was some Hollywood big wig and was a client of Wolfram & Heart. Lindsey was his attorney. Also if you noticed throughout season one, Angel's office was always well lit and someone asked why it didn't affect him. He said that it isn't just sunlight that kills Vamps, it's "direct" sunlight.

I think his name was Linwood.

They really missed the boat naming one of the Wolfram characters Gavin. So far we'd had Lee, Linwood, Lindsey, and Lilah. I actually wondered early on in the series if there was some significance to all the L's.

Is it just me, or isn't Groosalugg out there somewhere? I wish they'd kill him off rather than have him end up a loose end.

Edit: I forgot to include Lindsey the first time around.

Granted the Jasmine story seems to have had an abrupt ending, but I think that story was being stretched as it is. I for one am happy its wrapped up more or less.

Re: Lilah - I read somewhere that her character was written with a backstory that she's not exactly mortal and is a very old, albeit not powerful, person. No doubt Wolfram & Hart have a resurrection plan that goes with the 401K.

Good episode and as always the ending keeps us wanting more....

Forgive me if this has been said already...I didn't notice it when I was going through some of the replies.

My theory on how Lilah was alive was that she was killed by Cordy, who was under Jasmine's control. Which would explain how W&H could be back to life (non-zombies) after the Beast took care of them. The Beast was under Jasmine's control through Cordy. Now that Jasmine has been defeated, the damage she did could be reversed. I could be wrong, but it made the most sense to me when Lilah showed up all alive and with her head attached to the rest of her body, not to mention the preview.

On the good side, Charisma did a good job holding her breath.

:lol:
details, details.

Just calling it as I saw them... :D

Quote:

---

Originally posted by WWE Jedi
Any chance that Lilah is really "The First" from Buffy?

---

Not knowing much [Ok..actually NOTHING] about the Angel-verse, I thought the same thing..

But i'm guessing [Based on comments here] that it has something to do with these Wolfram & Heart people instead..

Oh well. I'll still watch next week..

[If someone has the time and energy to give a brief Cliff Note version of W&H's place in the Angel-verse, it'd be much appreciated. Thanks.]

BEWARE THE SPOILERS AT THE END! You have been warned.

Try: http://tvtome.com/Angel/season1.html

I thought I had it wrong, thanks for the correction :)

Question about this episode, which involves the opening scene of last Tuesday's Buffy:

After Jasmine was revealed as the rotting beeyotch she really is, everyone ran away in mass hysteria. When Buffy began last Tuesday, I almost thought I missed a week, because everyone was leaving Sunnydale but there was no explanation as to why. Anyone now get the impression the Buffy episode was shown out of order, and everyone is leaving town because of the Jasmine incident?

Finally watched the second half of this week's episode, and was pretty underwhelmed by the resolution after all that build-up.

It was worse. They all had the same INITIALS.

Lilah Morgan
Lindsay McDonald (I think)
Lee Mercer (I think)

Can't remember Linwood's.

They also dropped the "satanic mail room boy" plotline from last season too.

I liked the Jasmine storyline. And I was fine with Connor killing Jasmine, because Jasmine had specifically said that Cordelia could hurt her.

I'll be damned, you're right. And it was Linwood Murrow.

I guess Holland Manners was an exception, though. Even if it doesn't mean anything, it's damn weird. Oh, and Nathan Reed too.

Quote:

---

They also dropped the "satanic mail room boy" plotline from last season too.

---

I don't remember that plotline. What was it about?

Cool. Those are my initials as well. I wonder if I should send them my resume'. :)

At the very beginning of the last Buffy, Clem was in the car talking to Buffy and he mentioned that everyone was leaving because they could feel that something was wrong, and they knew it was gonna get worse. I guess with The First in town people could feel it's negative energy.

You guys confuse the heck out of me. I dont know why anyone is upset over the ease that Jasmine was killed because they have shown her to be pretty vulnerable since her manifestation- shes been cut, she feared being shot, she needed lots of energy to maintain her form and powers (which seemed to be somewhat nixed when she was revealed and lost her sway over her servants), so why wouldnt getting her head smushed be able to apparently kill her?

I thought the whole deal with the gang trying to figure out how to defeat her was becasue they were alone with no super-power fighter (Angel or Connor) so they were trying to figure how to beat Jasmine and came up with Cordy, which then , wasnt needed once a good *ss kicker took her on by surprise and she had lost her control over everyone.


Anyway, I enjoyed it because it was a real mind f**k and made me very anxious about just what the heck will happen next week on the finale.