The only comment that I have, just like last week, is that Whedon needs to get ahold of this ship before it really derails. Or just maybe he is at the helm and trying to "start from scratch" with season five's premiere (it has been said that if it is picked up, the whole storyline is going to change).

Im sorry, Barry Manilow is a good musician, but someone on the Whedon staff has got a "hard on" for his music. Two (2) songs in three (3) weeks time? Angel in the diner and next week singing Mandy with Connor.

I am glad to see that not everyone liked this episode, because when I left last night it seemed I was the only one w/ a dissenting opinion about it. Happy not to be the only one.

I personally think she's kind of nasty looking - not too different than the rotting flesh with maggots, what with that big ass mouth of hers and messed up teeth...

Fred, on the other hand...

Oh, and this episode could have been twice as good, if it was half as long.

I am in agreement with those that found this episode poor. For the first 35 minutes, I kept waiting for something of interest to happen; anything to happen besides the sappiness. It's the first time I actually considered flipping to another station during this show and I have been watching it since the very first episode of Season 1.

I just didn't care for Jasmine's character at all. I think the dialogue needed a serious rewrite. How many times do we have to hear about peace is coming, how we are so happy you are here, etc. It's like watching a smurfs episode without Gargomele: fa la la la la.

I think they could have brought the conflict where Fred realizes Jasmine is not to be trusted 10 or 15 minutes quicker in the story.

Btw, what in the world is the obsession with the scent of Jasmine flowers? hmmm... Time will tell.

Just my 2 cents worth
Slaughter22

Morf said on Page 1:

Did anyone catch the significance of Jasmine always carrying/wearing jasmine flowers? Jasmine flowers are a natural odor counteractant and are commonly used to cover up strong odors...like rotting flesh.

After watching the previews for next week:



I liked the episode for the most part. I did the whole WTF thing when Fred saw Jasmines true face.
Oh yeah:


Sorry about that, too many things to think about and pain medication getting in the way makes for a jumbled thrown together post.

Interesting points about how Fred finds out about Jasmine. It makes a kind of strange sense, although it seems waaaay too difficult to come up with that conclusion...

I hope it gets better--like I said earlier, I didn't find any redeeming value in this episode except it is an excuse to give Fred mucho screen time! :D

Well, because theres a big differance between fantasy and reality. In reality, they can only justify a few network crossovers and this season for Buffy and Angel is maxed out. (But, we're lucky we got any since when Buffy first moved they thought crossovers would be through)

Hour long shows actually only run around 44 mins when you add up commercials and opening credits. But, I know what you mean, it was a bit slow.

I was less than impressed too. Putting the gang under a spell really slowed down the action and drama. Sure there was a obligatory "fighting montage" but the context made it a bit dull. And, as far as drama, we had to rely on Fred, which isnt too great. Fred is fine for a good quip and some geeky sexiness every now and then, but drama and tension is not her strong suit as a character.

But, of course, I have high hopes the slowness of the spellbound cast will mean all the more fury when they wake up and a good finale. Cross those fingers.

Like I said, a lot of my enjoyment of this episode came from being in a campus ministry. While not as extreme as these people, they can get pretty defensive if they sense you are not 100% committed to the cause. Also, they actually DO think that life is peachy and about singing songs to the "savior." To top it off, they can get pretty popular, especially among people who want guidance in their lives and they capitalize on that part. I actually had my breakaway point when I went to a conference that was supposed bring an increase in faith and fellowship, but intead I think it was designed to get the casually committed more committed, to the point they lost focus of everything else in their life. Sad fact, most people who were in it were too blind to see the truth. After that incident, I shyed away from the meetings or showed up at the end of the weekly meetings to get my face shown, but little else.
Sad truth: when I ran, I didn't get a cute little girl like Fred to accompany me. :(

Angel's Mandy obsession has been a running gag for a while. It was funnier before they started beating people over the head with "Look! The dark, brooding vampire likes sappy music! Laugh, dammit!", but it is a running joke.

I think this episode was a total atmosphere episode. It would have worked better if, say, they hadn't revealed that Jasmine was evil in the promo, or that Fred is the one who finds out.

I just liked the creepy air, and the fact that this big evil thing still hasn't done anything wrong. I can understand disliking the episode, because if you're not buying the whole eerie factor (Gina Torres maintained a very nice balance between completely benign and harmless and extremely threatening), there's not much there. It was sort of like an extended lead up to the scare in a horror movie, and we're still waiting for Jasmine to do something scare-worthy.

I do think that there were a couple of interesting character moments in the show. It takes a evil-dead-old-thing to make Connor actually treat Angel with affection?

I was really dissappointed as well, probably the worst episode of the season or at least that i can think of, but i was very bored through it, but next weeks looks good!

Great episode.

Wow, this is a very love-it-or-hate-it episode, I guess. I can only speak for myself, but I thought it was fantastic. I just really love the whole idea of a "savior" that can quickly command that sort of obedience. If this is the worst episode this season, then this is one of the best seasons of any show I've seen lately.

I do, however, think it would have been much better if they didn't show Jasmine's true face. Just a little too early, I think. I liked the idea of the audience still uncertain about her true nature.

I liked it.

And I am fairly certain the spoilered explanation for why Fred saw something is accurate. They made a point of showing the vampire scratching that first guy. That's immediately what I thought when Fred said her hands bled.

Nice atmosphere, some genuine creepiness. That's tough to do in episodic television.

And though I think Fred is one of the most disgustingly unhealthy looking women I've ever seen in my life, I've liked her the past few episodes. She looks SO much better with her hair down.

Liked it.

I can see how people don't though - in terms of pacing and mood this episode has been different from the rest of the season and of course everyone is out of character!

But, we can't have all the episodes be the same - the plot does start to explain almost 3 years of continuity and I'm genuinely interested to see how things unfold. How do you fight a villain you are incapable of fighting, and all your friends are against you?

Count me in with those who loved this episode. This was all creepy unease, which I often love more than pure action. I like that Gina Torres is a bit "off" looking. In some shots she's quite lovely, in others she's not so much, but I can't put my finger on it. It adds to the masquerading quality of the character for me. Also, Fred works best as the "lone objector" because she's arguably the most helpless of the crew, as usually has to rely on the others the most. (Although you could make a point for Lorne here.) The odds are really stacked against her. I think the key to enjoying this ep may be to look at it as a piece of the season, rather than viewing each ep as a standalone piece that should have x amount of action, humor, etc. I like those elements, but this was a nice change of pace for me.

Wish I could have seen the damn thing. Angel got bumped on its regular night for college baseball and my Tivo didn't work for some reason to catch the repeat. Argh! Sounds interesting. I just really like how it sounds like they are wrapping up all the events the show has gone through the past 3 1/2 years leading up to this season's Big Bad.

'mandy' kicks ass.

I loved the episode, was very creepy for sure , especially teh final shot

You really felt for Fred, losing everything around her and not being able to trust anyone

I do hope the Buffy and Angel big bad's cross over