Jlbkwrm

But it can't work both ways. If Spike gets credit for what he did pre-soul (deciding to get a soul), he also has to shoulder the blame for what he did pre-soul (hundreds of murders, trying to rape Buffy). If Spike-with-Soul should be treated as an entirely seperate entity, then he doesn't get credit or blame. Both of those would go to NoSoulSpike, who no longer exists.

Serious question: What happened? I can't remember that at all, and now it's going to bug me until I find out what happened. Angel has always seperated himself from Angelus, but he's also always had guilt. He may have known he couldn't control what Angelus did, but since Angelus is a part of him, he feels responsible.

MrX

Just got around to watching this ep, thought it was ok.

Dru's reaction to Spike wanting to bring his mother along was funny.

Not enough Andrew and Anya.

tasha99

CTGuyInTX

I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but didn't Buffy say to Giles that knowing what she knows now she would be willing to sacrifice Dawn if it meant saving the world? Combine this with Dawn's message from Joyce earlier in the season: "When the time comes, Buffy won't choose you" and it looks like Dawn won't be around for any spin-offs.

Brian_92gsr

But wasn't Joyce just the First. I know Willow was talking to the First in that episode. I haven't seen the episode in a while, but the conversation with Joyce involved a lot of wind and objects blowing around, which doesn't seem like something the First can do.

CaptainMarvel

I don't know... remember, Joyce was being attacked by something evil-looking.

Although it could be possible that the evil-looking thing was actually good, or it could be possible that the thing and Joyce were both evil

Dr. DVD

My thinking for the last episode is this...



Also, does anyone else foresee Faith maybe pulling a little rank on Buffy when she gets to Sunnydale? Buffy is letting her judgment get clouded, and Faith is the real slayer as far as storylines go.

zero

Well the way Buffy has been acting lately, she (Buffy) feels that she is THE slayer. Faith returning will only cause a small rift in the group of potentials who will look at Faith as the substitute teacher. All in all this should make for an itneresting build up.

Mourn

I personally enjoyed this episode a lot more than most this season; no whiny children getting on my nerves.


I don't recall Spike ever saying or suggesting he wanted redemption or forgiveness; the way i remember it, he wanted Buffy and he thought he needed a soul to get her. It was never about making amends, simply a means to an end.

He was temporarily driven mad by The First, but once he became himself he wasn't racked with guilt. I personally prefer it this way because this way he isn't just an Angel clone. I see it like this, a soul makes it so that one is able to be good, but doesn't necesarily mean that they will be since people with souls can be just as evil. Spike is skirting the line between good and evil and is doing it of his own free will and i personally enjoy it.

That's one thing i don't really get about the Angelus/Angel thing in recent episodes (i've missed some of them so i could be wrong), how come Angel and Angelus have different memories now?

zero

I dont think Angelus has different memories, I think its just that he sees things differently than Angel. Yes Spike was driven mad by the first, but if you recall his chest was scarred because he tried to tear his heart out due to the guilt he was experiencing (least thats how I see it). After Buffy rescued him he was lacking the edge he had when he was evil. He has his edge again, but I think he does feel guilt, just because he isnt brooding every waking moment doesnt mean he isnt feeling bad.