PacMan2006

If a story is good, it's a story is good. Film, TV, comics--it's all make believe. I see no distinction.

Troy Stiffler

Eh. This is similar to Ebert saying video games can’t be art. And Marc Maron was trashing comic book movies recently. And now he has a bit part in Joker.

I can’t add anything to the conversation that hasn’t been said in those arguments.

Crocker Jarmen

I enjoy many comics, and have even read some I would consider "high art" or "literature" or whatever elitist description you'd want to use, but when it comes to superheroes, I have to agree with Calvin and Hobbes creator Bill Watterson.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying stories about a guy who dresses up like a bat so he can beat up criminals. We should all have eclectic tastes and appreciate the juvenile as much as the sublime. There's no need to pretend superheroes are high art because people like Bill Mahr look down on you fro reading them.

coli

I actually agree with Maher's overall assessment (he has talked about it before) as movies have pretty much been overtaken by mindless blockbuster movies. I just think he could have done it without calling out Stan Lee as THE reason for it, but maybe a symptom.

For example, George Lucas and Steven Spielberg created the blockbuster in the late 70's with Jaws and Star Wars. While those are classic movies, they sort of created this monster we see today of blockbuster movies that are either sequels, prequels, comic book, etc. Nothing original anymore, just safe franchises that make $$$$.

Mindless Blockbusters used to just come out in the summer, but there was also a handful of adult blockbusters too that were released (Apollo 13, The Fugitive, The Firm, Copland, Unforgiven, Saving Private Ryan), so there was something for everyone. Now Blockbusters pretty much rule for 12 months and the good talent has moved onto TV. It used to be the other way around as TV stars would move onto movies to really cement their careers.

I rarely goto the movies anymore because none of this stuff appeals to me as I could care less about Comic Book movies, or Sequels (I still see Star Wars but that is an exception not a rule because it is my favorite). I would rather binge watch a Cable/Streaming Drama on weekends then rent a movie, where it was the other way around 15-20 years ago.

Maher is pretty much saying that very few movies they make anymore appeal to him and he's frustrated that a bunch of adults still get jazzed for the countless Comic Book Blockbuster movie. He has a point, because I share that same frustration. I wouldn't blame Stan Lee for that, as he's a legend in the comic book industry. I would just say that Lucas, Spielberg, Stan Lee and others created this monster that has taken over the movie industry and it appeals to one crowd of people these days. From a financial point of view, I can't blame studios for churning out Comic Book movies cause they make alot of $$$$, but that doesn't mean I can't get frustrated that very few things appeal to me anymore on the big screen. Just look at all the big movie stars making going to the small screen, and that tells you that they are frustrated too.

William Fuld

Playing at my local theater this week:

A Private War
Boy Erased
Widows
Maria by Callas
Wildlife
Bohemian Rhapsody
Can You Ever Forgive Me?

On Politically Incorrect, Maher would dismiss The Simpsons as just a cartoon for kids, but now he takes every opportunity to suck Seth McFarlane's dick.

melasnus

This is great stuff...so many different responses to what he said.

I haven't read a Marvel comic book since I was 12 years old...and that was 50 years ago.
Different strokes for different folks and all.
All I can say is: whatever works for you.

Mike86

I like Maher at times and his attitude of not caring who he upsets, but I really think he has no idea what he's talking about in regards to Stan Lee. It's one thing to dislike comics on a personal level, but to dismiss works of creators, and especially one of such high importance like Stan Lee who helped champion things like civil rights through his art or the fans of people who like them seems ignorant as hell and like he doesn't know what he's even talking about. Not all comics are high art, but that doesn't make them all trash either or people who read them weak minded Trump supporters or some crap.

rw2516

Look at it this way. You've got tv equal or better to the stuff not being made as theatrical films anymore.
Since tv was invented movies have been on the losing side in the competition.
First they introduced widescreen. That worked for awhile.
Theaters had color on their side at first. Black and white theatrical features continued to be made right up to network prime time going color in 1966. Hollywood dropped black and white.
Then Hollywood had the R rating advantage. Premium cable and VHS killed that. Now PG-13 is more profitable.
Everything thing being equal, consumers will chose the option of home viewing. The only advantage theaters have left, the only thing that can't be replicated at home, is the experience of big budget action visuals on a big screen. And the sound system.

coli

Not to defend Maher, but you have to understand he didn't come from the Gen-X generation so he is no different then my older brother in his thinking towards anything pop culture when you grow up. My brother is 7 years older then me, and he was from that generation that once you get to high school, you move on from video games, movies, or anything you did in your youth. He would shake his head when I was in College and still playing Video Games, being hyped about the Star Wars Prequels, still collecting Baseball cards. He really couldn't understand why I was still doing that stuff as he really thought this was 'kids' stuff. I collect Star Wars Memorabilia and he thinks it's a fucking waste of money.

That's how Maher sees it when he looks at Comic-Con or people lining up for the next Blockbuster movie, or grown up kids still playing Madden 2018. Maher would honestly say, "Grow the fuck up!" as that is exactly how my older brother looks at me when I'm still doing these things. Again, I'm not saying that Maher was right to rant about Stan Lee, but Gen-X was the first generation that made it cool to be an adult and still enjoy things you did as a kid. Maher and my older brother came from an era before there were the bare essentially to do when you were a kid (My brother only remembers pong video game and GI Joe figures, where I grew up on Atari and Nintendo). He remembers Jaws, but was in High School when Star Wars and the blockbusters started to come out. It's generational, and that is why I don't get too offended by Maher cause I hear the same shit from my older brother.


I can buy that argument, as I essentially switched one medium for the other. 15-20 years ago, I would hit Blockbuster every weekend and rent the latest movie. Now I'm binge watching some Netflix show, or something I have saved on DVR.

Gunde

^ Spot on. Good post.

JasonF

Maher makes his living telling jokes. He's not exactly innocent when it comes to people devoting time and energy to "juvenile" art.

He's also an incredibly stubborn bigot, so it's not at all off-brand for him to reach a decision that something is "bad" and then loudly proclaim how right he is.

Mike86

Also like Slop101 mentioned this is a guy who constantly references pot as though he’s in his teens to early twenties or something. That can be viewed as immature for a guy who’s over sixty in my opinion.

Paff

Ooh, good point about the pot references he constantly makes. I've always said, I'm all for the legalization of marijuana if it means that the people who use it will just shut the fuck up about it.

And might I remind you, Bill? Cannibal Women in the Avocado Jungle of Death? (a great movie, by the way, but hardly high art)

slop101

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but the leap Maher makes that you're ignoring is that he says this is responsible for trump being president.
"I'm an adult who enjoys video games and comics, therefore, I'm a child and must vote for trump".... no, and fuck you Maher!

Red Hood

Then every fiction book is stupid if we follow Watterson's quote/line of thinking. The superhero mythology isn't one that stared with comics. We can trace it back to Homer's Illiad and maybe even before. Well, even the Bible has their own share of superheroes with Moses and Jesus. To dismiss a genre to show elitism is just ignorant.

Unclejosh

There is some truth to what Maher said although it was said in a rather dismissive way.

My only issue with it is that Maher is a hypocrite because he is also in a state of arrested development where he has open disdain for marriage or romantic commitments, children, loves smoking pot like a high schooler and has a long history of hiring prostitutes. Not exactly the actions of one who claims to be an "adult".

Maybe it is time to grow up before passing judgements on those who have fond memories of their childhoods or enjoy a little escapism now and then in the form of fantasy books or movies.

MikahC

This is Bill we're talking about. I think he'd tell people to grow up from believing the bible too.

Gunde

Blaming comics and Stan Lee specifically is stupid, and I would have expected Bill to be better than that. But the point of people becoming detached from reality and less informed is not fiction.

dvdjunkie32

I hope Maher gets raked over the coals for this because he has always been full of crap and seems to always get away with it. Yet Roseanne makes one wrong remark and she is ruined for life.

Stan was beloved by many and has touched the lives of countless people through his charm, kindness and incredible storytelling. I'll agree that it is silly to compare him along with literary giants. After all, the reason comic books became so valuable today is no one saved them. People didn't regard them as high literature. They rolled them up in their back pockets, read them and chunked em. They grew up and missed those classic stories because they were so much fun to read.

Mike86

I don’t think he would tell people to grow up from believing the Bible, I know he would. As much as I like his views on certain things he can be pretty far up his own ass on some his opinions.

melasnus

Bill clarifies his statement about Stan Lee:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...-point-1163378

brayzie

A quote from Maher:
They pretended comic books were actually sophisticated literature
I get that he's probably referencing superhero comic books, in particular the usual Batman/Spider-man stuff.
But it's still an ignorant generalization which I'll get to in a minute...

Maus was the first comic book I was thinking of when reading Maher's quote.
The kind of thinking that Maher has towards comic books is why the industry is still dominated by Marvel and DC superheroes, and why there was a stigma attached to reading comics for the longest time.

I don't see what that has anything to do with his opinions on comic books.
You could make money writing for The Transformers cartoon show, think it's extremely juvenile and unimportant, and still not be a hypocrite.

It's ironic to me that Watterson also generalized "comic books" instead of drawing a distinction between that and superhero comic books.

Alan Moore said a similar thing about the trend of superhero movies, and saying that it's like a dumbing down of the culture, that audiences don't want to think anymore.

Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore

Yeah, but Stan Lee passing is not getting attention in media outlets because of his support of civil rights. He's getting attention because he's the guy who created most of the characters in The Avengers, Spider-man: Homecoming, X-Men, Thor, Captain America: Civil War, Iron Man, etc.

I think him generalizing "comic books" as being "incredibly stupid," is stupid.
But it's obvious the types of comic books he's referring to, which are superhero comics, and within that genre, the type of superhero comics, which are overly violent, often times featuring anti-heroes. "Psychopath" and "gut-splattering violence" should be the clues.
When I read that, I immediately thought of The Punisher and Spawn.
In fact, I remember reading this comic strip around the time I was buying Image Comics like Spawn, CyberForce, and Youngblood.



In hindsight, yeah, that's not far off from how some of those comics read.

I remember this was heralded as a serious, mature superhero comic, and really, it was the opposite.

stingermck

Maher is and will always be a dick head.

JimRochester

He gets paid to be controversial. It was quite a leap to go from crapping on Stan Lee to the election of Trump but he managed. So all those people are so stupid they still like comic books, that's why they were stupid enough to vote for Trump? I thought it was misogyny, or the Comey investigation, not Stan Lee aficionados.

slop101

He's still full of it...

" I don't read comic books. I didn't even read them when I was a child. What I was saying is, a culture that thinks that comic books and comic book movies are profound meditations on the human condition is a dumb fucking culture."

First, who the fuck is saying comics are "profound meditations on the human condition"? (strawman argument there)
Second, if he doesn't read comics, then how the fuck does he know what they are and what they aren't? Sure, a majority of them are dumb, but plenty aren't and more then a few can be considered brilliant works of art. He should know better than to paint with such a broad brush.