Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO) - Series Discussion Thread
#2001
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Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
That wasn't a very intelligent statement on his part. He should have explained himself much better. I thought he meant that in his view of what America is (diversity, etc.) he thinks Republicans hate that. But it's a long way from saying a given group generally hates certain aspects of our country to saying they hate the country. I hate that certain people essentially tank the economy and get bonuses for their trouble. It doesn't mean I hate America (or even Capitalism).
If I remember the episode correctly, Bill did kind of questioned Moore on the statement, but such a strong statement against half the country should have been challenged more strongly, and Moore should have been given a chance to explain himself. Strangely, in that moment, I half wished Ann Coulter were there. Or maybe have Moore explain how a Colin Powell or Allen West hates his country.
If I remember the episode correctly, Bill did kind of questioned Moore on the statement, but such a strong statement against half the country should have been challenged more strongly, and Moore should have been given a chance to explain himself. Strangely, in that moment, I half wished Ann Coulter were there. Or maybe have Moore explain how a Colin Powell or Allen West hates his country.
#2002
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Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
I'm sorry, but S.E. Cupp was a moron in her gun discussion. Mass shootings have been pretty consistent over the past 30 years with a few yearly fluctuations. The FBI's definition is 4 or more people killed. By that definition, there is one shooting every 2 weeks in this country. There are groups that try to be more specific in their definitions so that they can claim their ridiculous arguments. It is neither up nor down in the real world.
Also on the Republicans hate America thing. I had no problem with the statement. Trying to repeal Obamacare for the 37th time is beyond ridiculous. It's one thing to hate Obama, it's another to try to obstruct everything he does. This view of Republicans is only going to get stronger if they stay on the far right on every issue. To be fair, the Democrats aren't worth a shit either.
Also on the Republicans hate America thing. I had no problem with the statement. Trying to repeal Obamacare for the 37th time is beyond ridiculous. It's one thing to hate Obama, it's another to try to obstruct everything he does. This view of Republicans is only going to get stronger if they stay on the far right on every issue. To be fair, the Democrats aren't worth a shit either.
#2003
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Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
The Republicans don't hate America but they hate most Americans. Especially the ones they broke. It goes completely against everything that one long-haired guy used to say. You know the one they all claim to love an worship.
#2004
Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
The hippy long hair that said "turn the other cheek"? Incurring "collateral damage" by employing certain military strikes, seems like something both Republicans and Democrats are in favor of, and yet that goes very much against the message of Jesus Christ.
#2005
Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
Does Maher ever do any other accent other than "southern" when he wants to illustrate stupidity? And why do his guests who keep talking about sticking up for the "middle class" and the "working poor" not complain when Maher keeps bringing up "trailer parks" as an insult?
And could someone tell Michael Moore that wearing a ball cap doesn't make you 'working class'? The guy looks as though he hasn't done any manual labor in his life.
Maher made some good points about gun ownership for home protection, while Moore's solution was to 'get a dog'.
And Cupp shut up Moore...and the idiot audience...by saying that it is a proven fact that mass shootings have gone down over the past 30 years. Whether she's right or not...and she seemed pretty confident of her facts...Moore could only scoff, pull his idiot cap down, and shake his head. He never offered any statistics of his own to refute her claims, and she made him look like an uniformed fool.
#2006
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Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
If it's true that mass shootings have gone down only when taking into consideration shootings involving 4 or more people, then I've lost respect for SE Cupp for purposely being deceitful.
#2007
Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
I think he was just venting some and I don't blame him. Considering during the Bush years, he was constantly being accused of hating America (they even titled a movie saying so), while GWB and Co. were sending our soldiers to be killed needlessly--that has got to stick in one's craw.
#2008
Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
I think he was just venting some and I don't blame him. Considering during the Bush years, he was constantly being accused of hating America (they even titled a movie saying so), while GWB and Co. were sending our soldiers to be killed needlessly--that has got to stick in one's craw.
Moore is overly cynical when it comes certain aspects of politics, and most of the time, rightfully so. But other times he portrays himself to be naive ("Kerry has had only one position on the war – he believed his president." -Michael Moore on why you should vote for an anti-war candidate who voted for the war) in order to deflect blame from liberals and Democrats.
Also, when you refer to GWB & Co sending our soldiers to die needlessly, are you including the Democrats in office at the time, as well as American citizens who continued to vote for those same Democrats because, hey, at least they're not Republicans?
#2009
Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
I'll put it like this: if someone successfully frames another person for murder and the wrongfully accused party is executed by the state--which party is more responsible for the death of the wrongfully accused?
#2010
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Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
First, I appreciate you respectfully providing your point of view. I have very little tolerance for those who think they can insult their way to being right.
There are things in the article I felt deserved counterpoint, but it's difficult for me to conclude this well-educated woman who IS a Muslim has no clue.
There are things in the article I felt deserved counterpoint, but it's difficult for me to conclude this well-educated woman who IS a Muslim has no clue.
And I think the writer of that article is clearly a denialist who probably doesn't think her religion called for critics of Mohammad to be killed (Islam does call for this, be they writers or cartoonists), or that her religion separates the world into an "us vs. them" view in which the "us" are the believers (or Muslims) and the "them" are the unbelievers (or Infidels), where the believers should war against the unbelievers (the "war" is called "Jihad" and it's a call for a real war) until all unbelievers are either converted or killed (this is called for in the Koran, again and again and again). And then, once everyone is Muslim, there will be peace in the world (this is where the whole "Religion of Peace" nonsense comes from).
You should really read the Koran and see for yourself what a doctrine of hatred and intolerance it is. The problem isn't intolerance of Islam - the problem is Islam's intolerance of everything else.
Here's some verses translated into English from the revered text of this worst of all religions (and this is just a small sample - the whole book is like this throughout)...
Spoiler:
#2011
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Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
I've read the Quran. I haven't memorized every word and passage, but I read it in the early 90's, along with much discussion with someone who was quite versed in it and lived it daily. He took his time to explain many things to me even though he knew I'd never be a convert. I just wanted to understand.
Reading both the Quran and Bible (KJV), there are many things I've needed to come to terms with. They were both written over a millennia ago. I've chosen to ask what is the religion today. There are many answers, largely influenced by geography, economics, etc. Does Islam believe it's the One True Religion? It certainly wouldn't be unique in that regard.
There are many things Christians have "grown out of" in the bible, and I don't see why I can't allow for the same with Islam. I'm not going to condemn someone for his choice of religion. I can handle focusing on addressing a person's beliefs and actions. I simply see no evidence from the vast majority of American Muslims that they take the passages above as you do.
Reading both the Quran and Bible (KJV), there are many things I've needed to come to terms with. They were both written over a millennia ago. I've chosen to ask what is the religion today. There are many answers, largely influenced by geography, economics, etc. Does Islam believe it's the One True Religion? It certainly wouldn't be unique in that regard.
There are many things Christians have "grown out of" in the bible, and I don't see why I can't allow for the same with Islam. I'm not going to condemn someone for his choice of religion. I can handle focusing on addressing a person's beliefs and actions. I simply see no evidence from the vast majority of American Muslims that they take the passages above as you do.
#2012
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Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
If you put your god over your country you are wrong. Believe what you want but in the secular world I do not care about your god. Anything you do in his name is immaterial to me. Leave me out of it. If it means that much to you you need to live in a more intolerant country. Like every muslim country. However silly religions are, islam is by far the silliest. Anybody that feels the need to kill for their god should kill themselves.
#2013
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Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
I've read the Quran. I haven't memorized every word and passage, but I read it in the early 90's, along with much discussion with someone who was quite versed in it and lived it daily. He took his time to explain many things to me even though he knew I'd never be a convert. I just wanted to understand.
Reading both the Quran and Bible (KJV), there are many things I've needed to come to terms with. They were both written over a millennia ago. I've chosen to ask what is the religion today. There are many answers, largely influenced by geography, economics, etc. Does Islam believe it's the One True Religion? It certainly wouldn't be unique in that regard.
There are many things Christians have "grown out of" in the bible, and I don't see why I can't allow for the same with Islam. I'm not going to condemn someone for his choice of religion. I can handle focusing on addressing a person's beliefs and actions. I simply see no evidence from the vast majority of American Muslims that they take the passages above as you do.
Reading both the Quran and Bible (KJV), there are many things I've needed to come to terms with. They were both written over a millennia ago. I've chosen to ask what is the religion today. There are many answers, largely influenced by geography, economics, etc. Does Islam believe it's the One True Religion? It certainly wouldn't be unique in that regard.
There are many things Christians have "grown out of" in the bible, and I don't see why I can't allow for the same with Islam. I'm not going to condemn someone for his choice of religion. I can handle focusing on addressing a person's beliefs and actions. I simply see no evidence from the vast majority of American Muslims that they take the passages above as you do.
Here's an article by a former Muslim about the root causes of Islamic violence that includes this quote:
The ambassador answered us that [their right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.
( ARTICLE: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-...b_3159286.html )
Islam was founded as a violent system of religious warfare by a brutal warlord. Until the Islamic world reforms itself - such as having less reverence of that brutal warlord as a good start - it will continue to be a dangerous force in the world.
#2014
Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
Last Friday's closing monologue was the best in quite a while. Bill challenges the canard that Ronald Reagan would not be right wing enough for the Tea Party affiliated GOP. Maher: "Reagan was the original Teabagger. He was patient zero of every thing the left has been against for the last 30 years. His only miracles have been turning water into polluted water and walking on the poor."
#2016
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#2018
#2020
Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
Episode Synopsis: Anthony Leiserowitz, director of the Yale Project on Climate Change Communication, and Adrian Grenier are the interview guests. Roundtable guests: political strategist Hogan Gidley; automotive columnist Dan Neil; and political consultant Kristen Soltis. Original Air Date: Jun 28, 2013
#2021
Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
Maher's way off on Reagan. But then again, Maher's way off on most of his political ramblings.
How dare he criticize St Reagan, right?
#2022
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
Last Friday's closing monologue was the best in quite a while. Bill challenges the canard that Ronald Reagan would not be right wing enough for the Tea Party affiliated GOP. Maher: "Reagan was the original Teabagger. He was patient zero of every thing the left has been against for the last 30 years. His only miracles have been turning water into polluted water and walking on the poor."
-He cut taxes across the board in 1981, so they would love him for that.
-He then raised taxes in 1982, which the tea party would have hated him for.
-He increased military spending and cut government spending, so the Tea Party would loved him for that.
-He picked Sandra Day O'Connor as Supreme Court Justice, who ended up voting on the Pro-Choice side for many years and wasn't as conservative as a Scalia or Thomas, so they would have not been happy with that pick.
-He signed the 1986 Immigration Reform Act giving amnesty to most illegals back then, which the Tea Party people would have despised as Senator Rubio is essentially sponsoring the same type of bill now and they turning on him so fast.
-He talked to Russian President Gorbachev about arms reduction, when I guarantee you many teaparty people at the time would have said that we should never talk to the 'Evil Empire.'
Those are just a few major issues during his Presidency, but like I said its a mixed bag. You could do this with every past President. Bill Clinton cut the Capital Gains Tax, Signed the Welfare Reform Bill, Passed NAFTA, and signed DOMA, all things the liberals today would be furious over.
Times change and parties evolve, and that is why I disagree with Maher for his overall analysis.
#2024
DVD Talk Limited Edition
#2025
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Real Time With Bill Maher, Season 11 (2013)
And Reagan was actually pro-union in his views. The whole "Reagan as a union buster" is mainly Neo-Con spin based entirely on his firing of the air traffic controllers in the PATCO union that went on strike in 1981 even though it was against the law for them to do so. Reagan fired the members of that union for violating their contract and breaking the law, not because he hated all unions.
In reality, Reagan was pro-union his entire life and even was the president of the Screen Actors Guild for a number of years back in the 1940s and 1950s. Reagan frequently gave pro-union speeches and called unions the backbone of the U.S. economy and (ironically) was even endorsed by the PATCO union in the 1980 election.
Here he is talking in 1980 about his support for unions:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/oITaWo5z1IQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
And the decline of unions since then happened in the private sector with little of that actually caused by actions of the federal government (within which is one of the few places where unions are still strong).
Neo-Cons have elevated Ronald Reagan into some sort of American Saint that they practically worship and they have spun that PATCO incident into this "Reagan the Union Buster" myth to make him fit their anti-union views better, and Bill Maher (like a lot of people) fell for it.
Adding this video of Reagan talking about the PATCO strike:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/j3ZTCPJ39LA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
In reality, Reagan was pro-union his entire life and even was the president of the Screen Actors Guild for a number of years back in the 1940s and 1950s. Reagan frequently gave pro-union speeches and called unions the backbone of the U.S. economy and (ironically) was even endorsed by the PATCO union in the 1980 election.
Here he is talking in 1980 about his support for unions:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/oITaWo5z1IQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
And the decline of unions since then happened in the private sector with little of that actually caused by actions of the federal government (within which is one of the few places where unions are still strong).
Neo-Cons have elevated Ronald Reagan into some sort of American Saint that they practically worship and they have spun that PATCO incident into this "Reagan the Union Buster" myth to make him fit their anti-union views better, and Bill Maher (like a lot of people) fell for it.
Adding this video of Reagan talking about the PATCO strike:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/j3ZTCPJ39LA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Last edited by dhmac; 07-03-13 at 10:44 PM. Reason: Added another video