The Final Straw for remaining Enterprise fans (spoilers)
03-12-03, 10:54 AM
#52
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The official site has an update on this episode:
http://www.startrek.com/production/s...les/031103.asp
(contains spoilers)
http://www.startrek.com/production/s...les/031103.asp
(contains spoilers)
Spoiler:
03-12-03, 01:06 PM
#53
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Here's the bottom line from the inside:
berman and braga both HATE Star Trek. They both hate the fans and have hated TOS for years....
but the "franchise" has made them millionaires so they won't leave....
They created Enterprise (notice I didn't say "Star Trek: Enterprise") and chose a "song" for the theme rather then the traditional orchestral score.... and since then they have done everything they can to destroy the "continuity" that the fans have demanded since TNG came on the air.
They've not hidden their feelings from the people on the inside... see if you can find Ronald Moore's story he wrote about going to work for Voyager after finishing up DS9 and how they didn't want to do good stories over there-- they just wanted to do the same crap. They've bitched out FX people who bring up inconsistancies in things and have gleefully added in discontinuity over the complaints of staff.
They and Paramount seem to think (and considering that VOY lasted as long as it did it proves this) that the ST fans will lap up any sh*t they plop down in front of them as long as it's got the ST name on it. So far they are right.....
berman and braga have got to go but it's going to take someone at the top of paramount to do it. you'd think they would take care of a product that represents such a HUGE portion of their yearly income....
berman and braga both HATE Star Trek. They both hate the fans and have hated TOS for years....
but the "franchise" has made them millionaires so they won't leave....
They created Enterprise (notice I didn't say "Star Trek: Enterprise") and chose a "song" for the theme rather then the traditional orchestral score.... and since then they have done everything they can to destroy the "continuity" that the fans have demanded since TNG came on the air.
They've not hidden their feelings from the people on the inside... see if you can find Ronald Moore's story he wrote about going to work for Voyager after finishing up DS9 and how they didn't want to do good stories over there-- they just wanted to do the same crap. They've bitched out FX people who bring up inconsistancies in things and have gleefully added in discontinuity over the complaints of staff.
They and Paramount seem to think (and considering that VOY lasted as long as it did it proves this) that the ST fans will lap up any sh*t they plop down in front of them as long as it's got the ST name on it. So far they are right.....
berman and braga have got to go but it's going to take someone at the top of paramount to do it. you'd think they would take care of a product that represents such a HUGE portion of their yearly income....
03-12-03, 01:47 PM
#55
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Originally posted by KLB
They and Paramount seem to think (and considering that VOY lasted as long as it did it proves this) that the ST fans will lap up any sh*t they plop down in front of them as long as it's got the ST name on it. So far they are right.....
They and Paramount seem to think (and considering that VOY lasted as long as it did it proves this) that the ST fans will lap up any sh*t they plop down in front of them as long as it's got the ST name on it. So far they are right.....
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=260373
Without even getting into the box office performance of Nemesis, the most recent Star Trek show has an audience that is less than 1/3 the size of 15 years ago.
I fail to see how Paramount can keep this train going in the face of these numbers. People aren't watching Trek. I can't think of a more clear sign that they need to (a) give it a rest for a year or two and (b) improve the quality significantly.
I guess my posts on this subject are getting repetitive, but watching the TNG and DS9 DVDs just hammers home how great this "franchise" used to be. Watching Voyager or Enterprise is just depressing by comparison.
03-12-03, 01:48 PM
#56
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Originally posted by KLB
...ST fans will lap up any sh*t they plop down in front of them as long as it's got the ST name on it.
...ST fans will lap up any sh*t they plop down in front of them as long as it's got the ST name on it.
I made the mistake of visiting a Trek site (Trekweb?) and I was appalled at how many fanboys were creaming their pants at the episode a few weeks ago.
The thing is, it seems to me, those who enjoy quality Trek have, for the most part, gone away. This leaves a very small number of us around who are still watchin’ and bitchin’. The fanboy chorus drowns out the critical [now] background noise. There is a constant “If you don’t like it, why don’t you leave” feeling going on. And, frankly, I don’t have a good answer to that one.
If you find a link to that info, please post it. And welcome to the maddness.
Red Dog,
Spoiler:
03-12-03, 01:58 PM
#57
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Originally posted by bboisvert
I fail to see how Paramount can keep this train going in the face of these numbers.
I fail to see how Paramount can keep this train going in the face of these numbers.
... watching the TNG and DS9 DVDs just hammers home how great this "franchise" used to be. Watching Voyager or Enterprise is just depressing by comparison.
03-12-03, 02:16 PM
#58
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"UPN's top rated show" -- well, that ain't saying much. But the ratings are falling--- but VOY had crappy ratings and they just kept it going the same as it was. Is Paramount happy with what they can get? Are they being fooled into thinking the fans support berman and braga????
I read the original script for the pilot of VOYAGER and what it had in mind (two diametrically opposed crews stuck together on one ship) was good... lots of conflict and a whole new universe to explore. What you got by the end of it was another recycled BS trek show where they brought in the same villans because they couldn't think of anything else to do.
Enterprise had (has) potential... it was a pretty good collection of characters and actors that seemed to be competent in playing them.
It had the potential to really get out in the deep end of unknown space and start EXPLORING. Start having first contacts and finding wacked-out parts of space and alien societies.
There were only one or maybe two episodes that I thought really gave you that feeling of exploration. Of being the Lewis and Clark of the first generation warp drive humans. Everything is new. No rules. No help if you get in a jam.
A captain that has to be diplomat, scientist, cartographer and leader all rolled into one and keep his crew alive and sane on a journey like no other.
It hasn't lived up to that--- they've pulled out the "safe (read: we know people already like these ones) villans" the "safe storylines" and the "safe character development (or non-development as some might see it)
I'm a HUGE fan of what SF can be if it's done right. You can tell stories and develop ideas in science-fiction you can't do or can't get away with in other television genres... and at the same time you can have stuff blow up and have people running around and shooting at each other. You've just got to be willing to create the right framework and let new ideas run wild with it.
I would LOVE to get a good SF show on TV that had a network that supported it instead of abandoning it midstream... and I think Enterprise could be such a show--- but not till they get some new blood in there to run the show and not play it safe.
I read the original script for the pilot of VOYAGER and what it had in mind (two diametrically opposed crews stuck together on one ship) was good... lots of conflict and a whole new universe to explore. What you got by the end of it was another recycled BS trek show where they brought in the same villans because they couldn't think of anything else to do.
Enterprise had (has) potential... it was a pretty good collection of characters and actors that seemed to be competent in playing them.
It had the potential to really get out in the deep end of unknown space and start EXPLORING. Start having first contacts and finding wacked-out parts of space and alien societies.
There were only one or maybe two episodes that I thought really gave you that feeling of exploration. Of being the Lewis and Clark of the first generation warp drive humans. Everything is new. No rules. No help if you get in a jam.
A captain that has to be diplomat, scientist, cartographer and leader all rolled into one and keep his crew alive and sane on a journey like no other.
It hasn't lived up to that--- they've pulled out the "safe (read: we know people already like these ones) villans" the "safe storylines" and the "safe character development (or non-development as some might see it)
I'm a HUGE fan of what SF can be if it's done right. You can tell stories and develop ideas in science-fiction you can't do or can't get away with in other television genres... and at the same time you can have stuff blow up and have people running around and shooting at each other. You've just got to be willing to create the right framework and let new ideas run wild with it.
I would LOVE to get a good SF show on TV that had a network that supported it instead of abandoning it midstream... and I think Enterprise could be such a show--- but not till they get some new blood in there to run the show and not play it safe.
03-12-03, 02:36 PM
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Wizdar mentioned trekweb which I visit frequently, and you would be surprised at the high number of people who think that not only the Borg episode is a mistake but the whole direction of Enterprise.
Just today, even William Shatner was weighing in today by saying that the Franchise needed a rest and this is coming from the guy who made star Trek 5.
Of course you have the fanboys that defend the franchise not matter what the quality is, much the same way you get the people who defend the last two Star Wars movies. They see it as Great entertainment even though most see both franchises have gone down the tubes.
Just today, even William Shatner was weighing in today by saying that the Franchise needed a rest and this is coming from the guy who made star Trek 5.
Of course you have the fanboys that defend the franchise not matter what the quality is, much the same way you get the people who defend the last two Star Wars movies. They see it as Great entertainment even though most see both franchises have gone down the tubes.
03-12-03, 03:13 PM
#60
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Originally posted by KLB
"UPN's top rated show" -- well, that ain't saying much. But the ratings are falling--- but VOY had crappy ratings and they just kept it going the same as it was. Is Paramount happy with what they can get? Are they being fooled into thinking the fans support berman and braga????
"UPN's top rated show" -- well, that ain't saying much. But the ratings are falling--- but VOY had crappy ratings and they just kept it going the same as it was. Is Paramount happy with what they can get? Are they being fooled into thinking the fans support berman and braga????
Granted, you can't please all of the people all of the time..but Enterprise just got too damn boring to continue watching. I first started by watching TOS. A couple years later I watched TNG. I started watching DS9 but eventually stopped [not by choice..]. I watched VOY but stopped before the first season was over [tuning in for the random Q/Borg appearance]. Enterprise I watched through the first season into the second [even though all of the technology on Enterprise bugged me to no end..]. Around the 4th or 5th ep, I made a conscious decision to STOP watching. It was just..that..lame.
Now, i'm not a ST historian like das and a couple others here are, but I do have a fairly good grasp on the basic concepts and tenets of Gene's original vision enough to know the length of the piss that B&B are taking on the franchise..
To conclude..I guess the only thing to do is to step back..stop watching..and hope things'll change..
..at least I have the DVDs..
03-12-03, 04:01 PM
#62
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• Quoth KLB •<HR SIZE=1>I think what is called for at the Star Trek "Franchise" is....
REGIME CHANGE. <HR SIZE=1>
Surely Bush can spare a few extra troops for a surgical strike in Beverly Hills.
das
03-12-03, 09:24 PM
#65
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Had an interesting thought....
Star Trek needs new blood. David Kemper could use a new show to run.... he's written for Trek before... he's proven he can run a show....
REGIME CHANGE FOR STAR TREK.
Star Trek needs new blood. David Kemper could use a new show to run.... he's written for Trek before... he's proven he can run a show....
REGIME CHANGE FOR STAR TREK.
03-13-03, 02:03 PM
#67
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Before Enterprise, you couldn't find a bigger Star Trek fan than me (even in the face of the Voyager fiasco). Now I don't even watch.
03-13-03, 03:27 PM
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"Back in the day" I might have given das a run for his money, but the geek fan title will prolly rest with him for some time to come. On many levels.
originally posted by ???
das is smart. das will make us go.
das is smart. das will make us go.
03-31-03, 10:28 AM
#73
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Update:
linky
I really hope this falls under the "we've heard all the complaints and are really trying to make things better" rather than "fool me once......"
Fans curious about the NX-01 mission change promised by Rick Berman will only have to wait until "The Expanse", the Trek head honcho revealed in a new interview about the season finale.
"I think our final episode of the season is going to be quite startling because we're going to do a cliffhanger that will put a new twist on the series as it enters its third year," Berman told the British Star Trek Monthly (via StarTrekUK.com). "I don't really want to get specific about it, but we're not talking about a tiny change. We're talking about a change that is going to, to some degree, alter our mission and, to some degree, change the tone of the series. We're very excited by it. This idea will be introduced partially in the final episode of this season and then more dramatically dealt with in the opener next season."
"I think our final episode of the season is going to be quite startling because we're going to do a cliffhanger that will put a new twist on the series as it enters its third year," Berman told the British Star Trek Monthly (via StarTrekUK.com). "I don't really want to get specific about it, but we're not talking about a tiny change. We're talking about a change that is going to, to some degree, alter our mission and, to some degree, change the tone of the series. We're very excited by it. This idea will be introduced partially in the final episode of this season and then more dramatically dealt with in the opener next season."
linky
I really hope this falls under the "we've heard all the complaints and are really trying to make things better" rather than "fool me once......"
03-31-03, 10:39 AM
#75
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Originally posted by Chew
I really hope this falls under the "we've heard all the complaints and are really trying to make things better" rather than "fool me once......"
I really hope this falls under the "we've heard all the complaints and are really trying to make things better" rather than "fool me once......"
Just for fun, we should start speculations about that this might be.
I’ll just throw in a few.
- They’ll find out that the transporters actually work.
- Archer will get a personality.
- The Vulcans will get a grip.
- They will finally find out where all the replacement shuttle pods come from.
- das and/or Wizdar will actually like two episodes in a row.