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movieking 11-11-02 08:46 PM

Buffy 11/12/02 "Conversations with Dead People"
 
I watched this episode a little earlier tonight, and I thought that it was outstanding. It is one of the best shows in quite a while.

Here are some spoilers for the show. Don't read if you want to be surprised. And if you do read them, don't bitch about reading them!

Spoiler:
There are four different storylines: Buffy against a former classmate vampire who analyses her because he was a psych major; Willow apparently talking to Tara though Cassie (from this season's "Help"); Dawn dealing with an angry spirit trying to harm her mother (who reappears briefly); and Andrew and Jonathan trying to atone for their past misgivings (or are they?). Also, we see Spike get picked up at a bar by a blonde woman, who tries to take him upstairs before he feeds on her. On the whole, the Buffy storyline is pretty funny, the Willow storyline is emotional, and the Dawn storyline is scary.


Spoiler:
We see the reappearance of three dead characters, and another one meets their end as well. Anya and Xander did not appear in this episode.


This was a great episode.

mmmm_cookies 11-11-02 10:25 PM

Gotta agree, this episode was outstanding. It was funny, so emotional and intense, especially the final few scenes. Plus i think we have confirmation of the big bad for the season!!

crankyman 11-12-02 09:29 AM

hmmm. sounds pretty darn good!

can't wait.

cranky.

Static Cling 11-12-02 12:38 PM

Zuh?
Spoiler:
Buffy's mom guest stars?

Dr. DVD 11-12-02 02:09 PM

Without spoiling me, is this season's big bad new or someone we have heard from in the past? Just looking for hints!

movieking 11-12-02 02:20 PM

Spoiler:
Buffy's mom does appear in some scenes that she shot recently. No older clip footage!

mmmm_cookies 11-12-02 03:29 PM

the big bad is......
Spoiler:
a familiar face


more spoilers:


Spoiler:
The First evil, the thing from the season 3 Christmas episode AKA Buffy's version of Satan since Buffy doesn't like to directly reference God or the devil. Also the episode doesn't directly say its the first evil yet, but i've been spoiled rotten and in a future episode it will reveal it.

Dr. DVD 11-12-02 08:20 PM

WOW! Nice episode. Anyone else get Sopranos flashes when Buffy was getting "counseled?"

In terms of the Big Bad,
Spoiler:
I never saw the season 3 Christmas Episode. I guess the big bad is Satan? When you say Buffy doesn't like to directly reference God or the Devil do you mean the character or the series?


Next week's looks interesting, but one question:
Spoiler:
How does Spike get the abiltiy to bite people if he has a soul and still has the chip in his head?

costanza187 11-12-02 08:48 PM

Very intense episode....funny, sad, scary all at the same time...

it did kinda have the Sopranos thing, with Buffy and the vampire...and couldnt help but have a bit of Evil Dead feel with Dawn in the house...kept waiting for Dawn to say "groovy" or something.

Verminaard 11-12-02 09:04 PM

Glad to see I wasn't the only one. I was expecting Dawn to pull out a chainsaw.


Give me some sugar baby!

mmmm_cookies 11-12-02 09:07 PM

Dr. DVD
Spoiler:
Well, in Buffy and especially Angel, both shows repeated make references to a higher power guiding them towards their special destinies

Pointyskull 11-12-02 10:03 PM

Wow, great episode.........

I'm almost speechless.

bedhead_75 11-12-02 10:07 PM

"It will eat you from the bottom..." (translated from Klingon) Ha! Jonathon and Andrew had me cracking up!

Fantastic episode! This is the way a sweeps should start. I couldn't believe that ME had so much great character and plot advancement all in one episode. I think Dawn actually kinda scared me more than the boo! stuff going on in the house... With her bloody mouth and shrieking incantations (yikes!) and what's up with
Spoiler:
the writing on the wall: mother's milk is red with blood, or something like that

and also,
Spoiler:
Poor Jonathon! I guess the little "I miss high school" speech really was his swan song? That was an awful lot of blood to come back from. I'm going to miss the little guy.


All in all, excellent episode!

lwhy? 11-12-02 10:35 PM

Here is my theory.
Spoiler:
The big bad is Buffy's Mom or the devil. It said I'm sick of all of this balancing good and bad. Could Dawn be turned into a vampire. Buffy's mom said Buffy would not be on her(Dawn's) side. Could Xander and Anya be the only ones that survive this season. They were the only ones not showed. Could Willow be a big factor in stopping the big bad. The big bad tried to get Willow to kill herself maybe she is the only one who can stop it. I felt bad for Jonathan. His character was kinda funny.
Great episode by the way.

Mantecore 11-12-02 10:47 PM

great episode, very entertaining, i cant wait until to see what happens next?

hahn 11-12-02 10:57 PM

4 words - Best Episode of Season!!!

zero 11-12-02 11:01 PM


Originally posted by hahn
4 words - Best Episode of Season!!!
Word

Lateralus42 11-12-02 11:06 PM

Just caught the episode here on the West Coast, oh man it was freaking excellent!!! Tons of creepy moments, my little brother was actually scared during some of the scenes.

Jlbkwrm 11-12-02 11:20 PM


Originally posted by Dr. DVD
Spoiler:

In terms of the Big Bad, I never saw the season 3 Christmas Episode.

That really, really needs to be spoiler-ized. Because, for those of us that have, it's a dead give away as to the identity of the BB (I was doing so well at going spoiler free for this season, too).

That said, this was probably the first episode in years which made me actually buy the Big Bad being a threat. I liked it. In fact, I think it probably shapes up to be my favorite plot-moving episode since... Season 3, maybe. A lot happened, but there's still a lot of mystery left.

Alas, poor Jonathan, you deserved way more screen time. And to be one of the gang.

hahn 11-12-02 11:25 PM


Originally posted by Jlbkwrm
Alas, poor Jonathan, you deserved way more screen time. And to be one of the gang.
Never count the dead people out. Especially in Buffy Universe.

Rogue588 11-12-02 11:37 PM

What a trifecta for tonite...Buffy, 24 & Sunday's Sopranos [Finally got to see it.]. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

NYPD Blue was good, but not as good as the season's been so far.

Anyways...this was a really good ep of Buffy. It'll only get better when Faith comes back. :D

Dvdsky 11-13-02 12:27 AM

Yeah, this week's Sopranos and Buffy have really spoiled me as far as good TV goes.

So, any guesses to what's up with Spike? Anyone think maybe Willow really shouldn't use magic any more, especially considering that touch of evil she got while using magic to protect her and that girl from the giant vengeancy spider?

Arcade 11-13-02 12:48 AM


Originally posted by Dvdsky
Yeah, this week's Sopranos and Buffy have really spoiled me as far as good TV goes.

So, any guesses to what's up with Spike? Anyone think maybe Willow really shouldn't use magic any more, especially considering that touch of evil she got while using magic to protect her and that girl from the giant vengeancy spider?

Nah. I like it when Willow uses magic. I hope she gets to continue.
Loved tonights episode. Can't wait till my brother comes over tomorrow so I can watch it again with another person that cares.
I also loved the 2/3's of the Trio with the translation of "From Beneath you it devours" as "It will eat you starting with your bottom." Priceless.

Patman 11-13-02 12:59 AM

My 2 word review of this episode: Absolutely Stunning!

I don't think it was Spike siring and feasting, but it's a "Super-Skrull-like" vampire all right.

The "big bad mom" did a number on Dawn by instilling so much doubt into her of Buffy's "allegiance/devotion/love" to her. I think when the big bad day comes, Dawn will betray Buffy in the 2nd or 3rd act due to self-doubt (and because she's young and emotionally inexperienced), and will cause Buffy some heartache from her betrayal. Buffy will still try to find a way to reach Dawn, but will it be too late for their bond to survive such treacherous plans to divide loyalties between sisters?

The Cassie motif served the story better because by using Cassie, and not Tara, it heightened Willow's desire to see Tara, even though she was almost fooled into thinking she was talking to Tara through Cassie. "Cassie" strung Willow along, but pushed too hard at the end, and Willow, after falling back on Giles' words, finally figured out that she held the power that frightened this "big bad" enough to try and pull Willow out of the equation by having Willow off herself.

I knew Andrew would do the bidding of "Warren" because Andrew is truly weak in mind and spirit. Jonathan was used as the human sacrifice to initiate the unearthing of the evil beneath, and starts the whole "from beneath you, it devours" campaign of evil. I still chuckle at Andrew's mis-translation when Jonathan said in Kligonese "from beneath you, it devours." with "it'll eat you starting from the bottom."

The Buffy self-recrimination hour was a good way of exploring Buffy's psyche, being able to bounce her story off on a familiar strange turned vamp. But this sort of stuff (the superiority complex / self-immolation) always makes Buffy stronger in the end. It's her metaphorically walking through the fire, which freezes her emotionally, but she'll make it because she will have her friends by her side when the big day comes.

cooper2000 11-13-02 01:35 AM

I agree. Good episode.
I dont remember this "first evil" episode from Season 3. Can anyone tell me the title so I can watch it tomorrow?

Whatever it is, it is doing a good job of turning people against each other and instilling doubt in them. My guess is that they will get at Zander and Anya later.
So whats up with the whole Spike thing?

I had no sympathy for Jonathon. After everything he did last season after Buffy had helped him in the past, its good riddance.

On a side note, who is responsible for those crappy UPN previews. They just suck!


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