cooper2000

About Evil always being Stronger, I remember the Haunted House episode where they couldnt get out of the frat house and the Evil finally appeared and Buffy stomped on it and Giles later translated it as (Actual Size).

On another note, I dont think Buffy is the property of UPN after Buffy ends (if it does). I think its the property of Josh and he can do whatever he wants with the characters. Thats why I have seen articles recently saying that some of the Buffy characters could transfer over to Angel if Buffy ends.

lisadoris

I agree with the notion that Spike's chip doesn't work anymore. Granted, I don't think any of the ghosts were what they appeared to be and it's possible the psych vamp wasn't sired by Spike at all. It's also possible that the big bad is controlling Spike and making him feed in an effort to divide Buffy and Spike. That's a plot threat we'll just have to wait and see about.

Pointyskull

Thanks for refreshing my addled brain...

I thought she sounded familiar. I have a copy of Frente's Marvin disc lying around the house somewhere - they did a mellow version of New Order's Bizarre Love Triangle

rennervision

For those who feel Spike's chip is no longer working, do you have any theories on why during two different occassions this season Spike recoiled in pain when attacking a human? Its hard for me to fully accept the premise his chip isn't working because of these two previous incidents. (But this episode does have me wondering whether he was only "pretending" before that the chip was causing pain and it is actually no longer there, or if through those past incidents he has now conditioned himself not to be affected by it as much despite the pain.)

I do have one question about this chip, however. I wasn't a faithful viewer of Buffy from the beginning, so I never saw the circumstances leading up to Spike's chip implant. I don't want any details on how that happened because I'm currently collecting and watching the DVDs as well.

But - I've always been puzzled as to why Spike can't remove this chip. I mean, if he's a vampire, why can't he just friggin' rip it out of his head? I'm not saying that wouldn't be disgusting, but since ripping a chunk out of your head is not one of the ways to kill a vampire (as far as I know) - then what's stopping him?

Patman

You're just going to have to wait for Season 4 for your answers.

Wizdar

We were given a hint that the chip wasn't working in the past. Remember when Buffy came back, Spike hit her (or something), and there was a momentary pause as he realized he was not zapped, and then he realized he had to fake it...

Of course, that doesn't mean, if the chip's NOT working, that we are "owed" any obvious clues to that affect.

This whole Spike thing is very

Pointyskull

I believe the reasoning behind Spike being able to knock around Buffy without getting a brain zap was that she is now no longer fully human after coming back from the dead - that she has somehow changed.

Patman

Spike hitting Buffy was explained away by Tara when she told Buffy that she came back with "a deep sunburn" that messed with the chips "human" receptors. Up until Spike got his soul back, Spike was still bothered when he did hit humans (that weren't Buffy). Now...I think the chip doesn't work now that Spike has a soul, but he's been psychosomatically condition to feel pain/wince when he knowingly hits a human. But he's been faking that the chip still works for the early Buffy episodes in this season.

Wizdar

I think youse guys have missed my point completely. It's not about "does the chip work or not," it's about "should we KNOW whether the chip works or not."

Sorry for the interruption.

bedhead_75

So we've got 2 options for what we saw Spike doing in CwDP: One, that wasn't really Spike, but Morphy pretending to be Spike in order to get the Buffy and the scoobies to suspect that he's back to his old evil ways, soul or no soul. After all, Warren had a soul and he did some descipable things. Or option two is that really was Spike and his chip is NOT working, or disabled somehow, and Morphy is influencing him to sire new vamps for him. Did I cover everything??

Dr. DVD

Even if the chip doesn't work, wouldn't Spike having a soul prevent him from attacking people or at least give him inhibtions?
I have a theory that maybe Spike got a little nookie from someone and lost his soul, and he has been playing everyone for a fool since then. Another possibiltiy is that the Big Bad took his soul and chip, and was trying to use him as a plant to know how to hit the scoobs.

bedhead_75

The nookie clause is Angel's curse. Spike can boink any one he wants without losing his soul. Besides having a soul doesn't necessarily mean that a person is good-->take Warren for example. He was human with a soul and he was still gleefully evil.

Dr. DVD

Last I checked, Spike wasn't good or bad with his soul, he was just a full time loser.

spainlinx0

I don't think it's possible that the character who attacked the girl could have been this morph big bad. If he has the power to do all that why wouldn't he have killed Jonathon himself instead of having the other guy do it. (His name escapes me at the moment.) Also why wouldn't he just stab Willow himself under the guise of Cassie. And why was the only damage he could do to Dawn some polterguist stuff, and some scratches?

zero

This is why evil is well evil. It wont always kill you right away, but it will attack you at every angle. If the big bad got to Willow how do you think Buffy would have reacted? It would have destroyed her. As for Dawn, it knows that she is young and impressionable. She lacks the experience in dealing with this sort of thing. So if this evil can get Dawn to turn against Buffy then this will hurt even more.

Dr. DVD

The debate about why the Big Bad didn't kill the scoobs when it had the chance goes back to D'Hoffryn's statement: "Never go for the kill when you can go for pain," or something like that.

LiquidSky

Great episode. Cannot wait for next week with Aimee Mann!

Jadzia

I am sooooooooo pissed off at UPN-Detroit.

It was bad enough they did not air this episode on Tuesday when the rest of the country got to see it. They had already announced it wouldn't air until Sunday afternoon at 4pm. Ok, fine, so I wait patiently and stay out of this thread.

I already had my machine set to tape it and everything. So tonight I decide to set my upstairs machine to tape it so I'd have a back-up in case anything happened with teh other recording (I'm so anal I'll miss it.)

I don't see the show listed on my lineup! I got to the station's web page and check for schedule changes and guess what? They decided at the last minute to air it on SATURDAY at 2pm.

SO I $%$(&%*^* MISSED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Never mind the fact that I don't know how they expected the viewers to find it BEFORE it was supposed to air. I could see running an announcemnt on Sunday at 4 saying when it was going to air announcing the new time, but they went and showed it before it was supposed to air! What morons!

I just sent them a very angry letter but I don't know what good it will do. They don't seem to care one iota for Buffy fans.

So, without reading this thread I did see a few phrases taht it was supposed to be great.

Does anyone know where or how I could get a copy? I think I could download it somewhere but I wouldn't have a clue where to go.

Maybe I ought to start watching all my Buffy episodes on the net since UPN50 just disgusts me right now.

Any tips or pointers would be appreciated. Thanks!

B5Erik

My two cents worth:

It wasn't Spike. As a human William (that was his name, wasn't it?) was a very gentle person. A bit meek and timid, actually, so I don't think he's got it in him to go around killing people or turning them into vamps. It's another set-up to divide the Scoobies.

Spike may have a bigger role to play in defeating this REALLY Big Bad than we think. Thus, the REALLY Big Bad needs to turn the Scoobies against him. Just a theory....

...of course, it fits in with everything (well, most everything) in the episode being deception. It wasn't Buffy & Dawn's mom, it wasn't Cassie (and Tara damn sure wasn't talking through her), and the vamp that analyzed Buffy gave her misinformation about Spike, with a multitude of possible reasons why (he's attached to one great all powerful evil, or it may be as simple as the "fake" Spike sired him, leading him to believe that it was the real deal so that when he ran across Buffy he'd pass on the bogus info).

No question, this was a great episode. Now hopefully they can keep it up....