Jepthah

Whoa boy!

Is this special going to have a performance by the band Gay Dad?

wm lopez

Any chance that Nickelodeon will have Jerry Farwell read from the Bible on what God says about homosexuality. It's only fair to give these children both sides. That way they can believe the Hollywood liberals or the Bible.

FlashStash

Again, what a shame that some people comment without actually seeing the show...the show does not talk about whether homosexuality is right or wrong. It just presents issues that children of same-sex couples face. And what a surprise to hear there are onle two sides..it sounds like to you it's either the Bible's way or no way. And hopefully they'll AVOID letting Falwell tell the kids how he said that homosexuals caused the WTC attack... nothing like letting the hate-mongerers get their way, huh? ::sigh::

Also, when you watch the show ( not that it seems to matter to you...) you'll see kids who are both against and for homosexuality, but again, why should the content matter?...::double-sigh::


FS

BizRodian

It's only fair that he also reads from the bible about stoning disobediant children then. That'll teach those little bastards to behave.

Grimfarrow

Someone missed the point.

IF that's the case, there should be a TV program akin to the 700 Club that espouses all the fallacies of Christianity. After all, that is fair too, right?

BizRodian

I'll host.

wm lopez

I watched some of it.
And they did show Jerry Farwell have his say.
So it was fair.
Now what the Bible says about homosexuality is:
Since it was the begining of time and God told the Jews which was the only group of people on earth at the time that believed in God. "That no man should lay down with no man". Which if you read the Bible in whole, the word "lay" means to have sex with.
God also says no man should lay down with any animal also.
And of course there's the cities of Sodom & Gomorra, which is let's San Fransico or any U.S. gay community today. Was destroyed by God because God said the cities were evil, again this is in the begining of time. So it may have been the only city which was gay at the time on earth.

FlashStash

Hmm, here's some other things the Bible says...wm lopez, please let me know how I am supposed to tell which I should follow or not:

"I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?"

These are all from http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/drlaura.htm I'm not claiming them as my own...but would you please check the references wm lopez and let me know where I can pick up the 'pick and choose' version of the Bible? )

FS

dek

Giantrobo

While most of the verses are taken out of context and even I admit it CAN come across as harsh...You must understand that Christians understand that we are under a "NEW COVENANT" so these "OLD TESTAMENT" verses don't have the same binding obligation they once did. Also, God was speaking to Israel specifically... but it won't matter to ones who think the Bible is a Fairy tale(no pun there)



Here is exodus 21:7

Mind you Slaves back then weren't always taken into slavery by force. There were MANY reason why people were in servitude.

Hebrew Servants
2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.
5 "But if the servant declares, 'I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,' 6 then his master must take him before the judges. [1] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.
7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, [2] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

On a side note here's an example of "slavery" from the Bible..funny how the Bible haters NEVER bring this verse up..but I guess we ALL pick and choose to fit our agendas right


Leviticus 25: 35-43

35 " 'If one of your countrymen becomes poor and is unable to support himself among you, help him as you would an alien or a temporary resident, so he can continue to live among you. 36 Do not take interest of any kind [1] from him, but fear your God, so that your countryman may continue to live among you. 37 You must not lend him money at interest or sell him food at a profit. 38 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God.
39 " 'If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave. 40 He is to be treated as a hired worker or a temporary resident among you; he is to work for you until the Year of Jubilee. 41 Then he and his children are to be released, and he will go back to his own clan and to the property of his forefathers. 42 Because the Israelites are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt, they must not be sold as slaves. 43 Do not rule over them ruthlessly, but fear your God.



This comment is just STUPID because if you're having sex with a woman OBVIOUSLY she's going to tell you if she's on her period and one should be intimate enough with a sexual partner to know things like this anyway. But this comment was used in the letter to Dr Laura so Gay men wouldn't have to worry about a woman's period anyway would they? It's simple HEALTH/ HYGIENE law and makes total sense when you think of ancient non anti-bacterial soap days...it also gives the amount of time one would be unclean so what's the confusion?

Leviticus 15
19 " 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.
20 " 'Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening.
24 " 'If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.


I doubt this is truly an issue in this "person's" life but ok...

Honestly, I think this verse is what it is. Again, Slavery was not always the NEGATIVE we associate with it today. Some people were provided homes and a place to eat and that was better than starving in their own country. But that's MY personal take on this. Again, this verse is to Israel and God is telling them not treat each other bad. Another fact is that many nations around them were enemies and so slaves from enemy countries were common BOTH WAYS. Ask the Egyptians....


44 " 'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.


Again, this goes back the "OLD TESTAMENT" and you know what?

God can be TRULY TOUGH on Man... there's no 2 ways about it. that is no doubt why many reject God's thing on Homosexuality and Sex outside of marriage in general. Notice I did NOT single out gays...I mention heteros in the same respect. Jesus brought us a "NEW COVENANT" and we are no longer bound by this.


Exodus 35


Sabbath Regulations

1 Moses assembled the whole Israelite community and said to them, "These are the things the Lord has commanded you to do: 2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord . Whoever does any work on it must be put to death. 3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day."

wm lopez

You have to read the Bible from begining to end and then you'll understand why it says some of the things you bring up that don't make sense. Like the Klu Klux Klan says that in the Bible God said no race mixing. But I know what they are refering to. God said for the Hebrews who at the time were the only ones on the planet who believed in the true God not to mix with other tribs because they were Idol worshippers. It's like today telling your kids not to hang out with gangbangers because they will change your lifestyle. There's more I can explain but too much to write. You can laugh but remember come Judgement Day the Devil isn't forgiven and not everybody goes to Heaven. And no liberal crying discrimination is'nt going to help.

Grimfarrow

I am dying to tell you exactly what's on my mind, but due to the coutersy toward others on this forum, I'll not articulate them.

There are many, may religions in this world, and to assume that *your* particular version is the right one and everyone else will go to hell is wishful thinking. Most likely you're ending at the bottom of the pit with everyone else, so save the holier-than-thous to yourself.

elektra

Actually I save the laughing for after "judgement day" when nothing happens and you're standing there with a WTF look on your face. Or if we wind up blowing up this planet long before then and don't have to worry about listening to someone like you whine because some of us want to treat everyone on the planet as if "All men were created equal."

Just because you and others believe in the Bible does not make it a fact. It's a fact to you. There were other faiths around long before christianity started and they will continue to be there right up until the end. Whether any of us like it or not, or agree with it or not, people are gay. They are entitled to all the same rights as a human being as you and I are.

I would like to add that I have several gay friends that I would trust around my niece and nephews right now more than I would the local parish priest. Oh wait, it's acceptable to be a pedophile, just not gay.

elektra

Robo - So what exactly does the New Covenant say about homosexuality?

Well, back then man not laying with man made sense for the time as well. The infant mortality rate must have been very high and if men and women were not laying with each other, how far would the human race have gotten? Today, there's enough of us that it's a moot point. This seems to make total sense to me.

FlashStash

Okie dokie then, I'll play by your rules...

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Giantrobo, know where Leviticus is in the Bible? Old Testament...so you're right...it's not binding, and I'll invie you to my big gay disco when I open it in heaven

...now sing along... o/~Jesus loves me this I know, but the bible confuses me so o/~

FS

Giantrobo

Does it matter Elektra? But since you asked these are verses for the New Testament or The NEW Covenant:

Anyway, here's 1 Corinthians 6:9.

Notice it mentions other sins...not just homosexuality..

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


Here's 1st Timothy 1 verses 8-10 Again notice that other sins are brought up.

8But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,


Romans 1 26-27

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion


----



point taken.

Giantrobo

sure....

read the above post and notice they're in the New Testament.

BTW, I would be glad to party with you in your Big Gay Disco in Heaven.... make sure you save at leaast one dance for me ok?

e-mail your pic.

I'm serious.

Giantrobo

It goes both ways. Just because you poopoo anything Christian or from the bible it doesn't mean it's fairy tale.

No one, I mean no one, is saying gays shouldn't have the same rights as anyone else. It's the ACT of homosexuality --NOT the person-- that Christians don't agree with.

FlashStash

This is obviously one of those endless arguments, and no one is EVER going to convince the other side to change their mind, but I'll just provide this link as a reference for those interested in seeing the other side of the issue:

http://www.truluck.com/html/six_bible_passages.html


And I will save you a dance Giantrobo...but you'll have to wait 'til we both get there to see me )

FS

Groucho

Marriage? Adoption?

Giantrobo

Ok FlashStash

PEACE ok?

I agree with you that neither side will ever go away and I must say to you --and I hope you hear this---that the MAJORITY of Christians DON'T HATE GAYS although they may disagree with the lifestyle. It's ok to disagree with another lifestyle as long as one doesn't harm anyone or take away their rights.

As far as that dance....I'll wait, I'm sure you're worth it.

Giantrobo

are these rights? I'm not so sure they are.

But personally i don't care if gays do either. I can deal with gay marriage and gay adoption.

FlashStash

Yes peace!

And thanks for keeping this intelligent...I will add one more comment though. I do hear what you say about not hating gays but disagreeing with the lifestyle, but, to me, that's like saying you disagree with the fact that I have blonde hair or blue eyes...there's not much I can do to change what I am. This was never a choice of a lifestyle, I was born who I am. I understand where you're coming from saying it, but understand that the statment you made still reinforces our differences of opinion

And to keep this on topic, let's take it back to TV. What I see alot is a few Christians who speak so vehemently about hating gays still sinning elsewhere in their lives...

Have you seen this season's Real World with Theo? He had to call his father to make sure that it was ok not to go to a gay function with his roommates since being gay was wrong, yet he never called daddy when he had five girls over in the hot tub and told his roomates that he'd be having women over every night! Why is he not equally concerned about all of his sinning? And I wanna hear what his daddy said about the hottub!!

FS

elektra

Robo - what the new covenant says does matter because if you're supposed to live your life by the New Covenant, than it's teachings are what are more important.

[QUOTE]It goes both ways. Just because you poopoo anything Christian or from the bible it doesn't mean it's fairy tale.

No one, I mean no one, is saying gays shouldn't have the same rights as anyone else. It's the ACT of homosexuality --NOT the person-- that Christians don't agree with.[\QUOTE]

I understand that it goes both ways. I just wish more people would present themselves in an intelligent, understanding, compassionate light like you and a few others do. I feel that you have EVERY right to agree with your faith and believe it's wrong. However, not everyone (wm lopez) appears to want to give these people their equal rights. They want to deny these people a marriage or legal agreement equivalent to and they don't want to allow these people to adopt children. And the only reason they have is that these people are gay. IMO, that is not a good enough reason.

And a big HEY! I get the first dance with Robo.

BTW - Robo - are you a DJ? If so, I want to know with what station and if and when I can hear your show.

Groucho

This is something I don't understand. Why is heterosexual marriage and parenting (which children are bombarded with all the time) appropriate for a child, but homosexual marriage and parenting is not?