Neeperando

Holy crap! So, not the least obvious of scenarios, but the impending showdown between is going to make one PHUCKING PHAT PHINALE!!! Notice the use of ph's instead of f's to emphasize how utterly awesome this is all turning out. Of course, I'm sure we'll all wonder stuff like


Unlikely.
Or

We'll never know, but one thing is for sure. Next week... oh yeah. Buffy better be good tomorrow.

Snake Plissken

TV Guide's description of next week's new ANGEL.

Snake Plissken

This episode was fantastic. Everything clicked. Man, i cant wait to watch it again.

Canis Firebrand

Spectacular!

Definetly looking forward to next week and the rest of the episodes this season.

I hope Buffy's last episodes for this season can match half of the awesomeness that Angel has had this season. Reading the descriptions for the show sounds promissing. Now, lets see if they can deliver the goods.

grunter

Hmm, dangerous mystical parasites that threaten our heroes as a side effect after one of the crew dabbles in the blackest of black arts?

Boy, I loved that episode . . . WHEN IT WAS ON BUFFY EARLIER THIS SEASON!!!!

And Connor returns as a teenager - [sarcasm]gee no one saw that coming [/sarcasm]. Does television have any other way of dealing with a hum-drum baby plotline except to miraculously grow the child into a post-pubescent dewy-eyed teen? That twist ending was straight out of "Guiding Light" circa 1987.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: "Angel" this season is all about straight-forward plot - running the characters perfunctorily through prophecy this and demon-destroyer plot-device that - like some by-the-numbers Dean Koontz vampire novel.

"Buffy" this season - building on seasons of rich backstory - is all about characterization and nuance. Nothing happens - even small inconsequential real life problems - without there being echoes of past events.

As a result we end up with "Angel" as the classic "Bruckheimer" popcorn flick to "Buffy's" more meaty art-house fare.

Slap a beret on my head and force me to smoke clove cigarettes - but I do believe I far prefer "Buffy" to "Angel" this season. By a clear mile.

(And if you think my post is straight from the bizarro world as another thread on the TV Talk board implied - well now you know how I feel to suffer through the mindless praise being heaped upon the dreadfully dull Connor storyline in "Angel" this season. I almost want a sequel to the whole Pylea arc after suffering through this.)

drexel

You know I can easily bag on you for the opinion, but I'm not. I am just happy as almost the entire majority of people that watch both series agree that Angel has come up spades this season time and time again while Buffy has been the most dissapointing show on TV this year. At least we have one great hour of TV a week. I really hope Angel is considered come Emmy time. Being on the WB keeps it from getting the critical attention it deserves.

CaptainMarvel

It was a joke when I posted that. I thought I'd made it clear there. I'll delete it if you wish, but I think you're taking it too seriously.

You might want to rethink the 'mindless praise' bit though; it seems very clearly you're in the minority opinion on this, both on this board and off of it. While I disagree quite often with people's opinions here, I wouldn't go so far as to call them mindless for having them.

Snake Plissken

Oh My Lord!

grunter has become so mindless that he lost his mind!!!

das Monkey

I thought this episode was pretty weak, and the ultimate revelation was both predictable and uninspired. Still, I liked the scenes with Wesley and Gunn. And I like the interaction between Cordy and Angel (except when Cordy manifested her power, which was silly).

However, though Angel has stumbled some this season, it's been nowhere near as false as Buffy has been, between the numerous filler episodes and the complete abandonment of years of character development. Characterization and nuance would be fine if it were true to the story. I'm sure in these final episodes, they'll find a way to combine the good parts of the season into a strong finish, but it can't erase so much of the dismally average content of most of this season. I'm not ready to praise Angel as the greatest show on television, though there have been some exceptional episodes this season, and it certainly comes nowhere near to touching Buffy status of the last few years. But this season, it's been consistently stronger than Buffy just about every week.

das

mdc3000

This episode RULED!!!!! MY GOD angel kicks ass... buffy better be good tonight, i have a feeling that a vampire slayer will be off the air well before a certain vampire... Angel is beating the hell out of buffy now....

MATT

das Monkey

I have a feeling Germany will not prevail in WWII.

Considering that it's a virtual certainty that Buffy will air for one more season before willingly ending the show after 7 years and that Angel is guaranteed another season after this by UPN if not picked up by WB, it's highly unlikely any other scenario could occur.

das

tofu

nuts!!! i hate it when i miss the good episodes but from what you all say except for that one guy, next weeks episode sounds excellent.

Salsa Shark

This has been the first ep this season that I enjoyed watching. I thank Fury for that. This ep still had it's flaws, but compared to the rest of this season, last night's ep was a masterpiece.

As far as people praising this season of Angel. I've noticed that it seems that most of the people doing that are somewhat new to the series. (I'm not implying any of you, cause I don't know any of you - I'm strictly talking about other sites I visit, and people I know in RL) I don't know anyone (among us who have been watching BtVS & Angel from jump) who is enjoying this season of Angel (or BtVS for that matter). Both shows have suffered drastically over the time that Joss has had less and less to do with the show. When they first spun off Angel, BtVS started it's decline. And with the Giles spinoff, cartoon spinoff, his new show Firefly, and whatever else Joss is working on, both shows are being run into the ground.

I can't really say that I enjoy either show over the other. I think both have been equally dissappointing this season. BtVS started out strong and has gotten weaker with every passing ep since the musical. Angel started out weak, got weaker, but now is starting to look like it will finish strong. I honestly can't wait for this silly Connor storyline to be over. The quicker the better.

And I'm getting a little annoyed that they have yet to go into any detail about what type of demon characteristics Cordy has. She has no pain with the visions (even though Doyle who was half demon had mind splitting headaches) she now floats. And last night, they gave absolutely no explanation at all for how she did what she did. They are very annoyingly skirting around the issue.

And I'm still pissed off that Angel never lost his soul when/after his son was born. They've completely thrown this piece of backstory out the window. THey never even mentioned it was a possibility. He was so in love with Buffy that he experienced perfect happiness and contentment, causing the curse to take his soul away. I refuse to believe that Buffy made him happier than the birth of his son. He never acted goofy, silly, doofish and downright idiot-like with Buffy as he did with Connor. *****, he never even cracked a smile with Buffy. Yet, the entire time with Connor, he couldn't stop acting like a completely giddy dork.

oops, I've started to go off on a little rant. I'll stop there.

Basically, the only way I get any satisfaction at all watching this season of Angel, is if I keep telling myself that the show has absolutely nothing to do with the first two seasons or with BtVS. Since the writers ignore the backstory, I do too.

das Monkey

Salsa Shark,

For reference, I've been here since day one, before it was "cool" to watch Buffy, back when people looked at me like I was completely nutso for watching a show with such a silly name on such a stupid network.

Anyway, I'm with you on Buffy, and I agree with your points on Angel. However, I do not detest this season of Angel. Whereas, it's weaker than the first two seasons in some areas, I think it's also a stronger show in others, and at this moment, I enjoy it more than what Buffy is right now. Neither show, though, is near the level of quality Buffy ran at us for 5 years, and if my suspicians are correct, will return to fairly shortly.

das

Salsa Shark

Man, I hope you're right!

It really dissappoints me thinking the shows are over. They were so good at one point. I know it would be very difficult for BtVS to stay at the high level it once was, and I didn't expect it to, but I never thought it would get as low as it has gotten.

And as long as Angel is broody, I'm happy. Dorky Angel is just too, well...dorky.

Doug Heffernan

My 2 cents:

Cordelia: Seems like she's been gone forever, now her presence is somewhat awkward to me. She returns, has missed the whole Connor thing - and now she has a whole new side to her, ie:the comment that Groo can "go all night." Not to mention the much despised new hairdo. Her chemistry with Angel is all but gone!!!After the episode in the theater, I was really hoping the Angel/Cordy thing would happen. Now we have to deal with the ridiculous Groo character.

Groo: wish they would just sen him back to where he came from.

Connor reappearing: TOO SOON! They should have played this out till at least the end of this season/beginning of next.

Wesley: I am speechless, it seems Angel would understand where he was coming from.

Again, just my 2 cents!

Patman

I was not too crazy about the "Alien/Tribble" episode on Angel, nor the deus ex machina ending with Cordy zapping the water tribbles once one of them got on her arm. Just seems like poor writing choice.

Love how Wes deduced the antidote for the water tribbles almost immediately when he handed Gunn the bottle of alcohol. We has "thickened up" physically it seems, he's got more gravitas going on now.

I thought Fred (Amy Acker) was pretty convincing as someone being possessed from inside.

The whole episode felt like marking time to me. Did enjoy Gavin pushing all of Lilah's buttons. But I think Lilah's too resourceful not to get the final word on Gavin in the end.

Connor/Stephen's reappearance angle was predictable (I knew that Holtz would raise C/S as his son and poison him against Angel in true revenge fashion.

Poor Gru, out of place, and probably fighting the inevitable when Cordy finally decides she wants Angel.

I liked the way Gunn stands up Angel. Each person's motivations makes for strange partnerships. Angel's crew is a good example of this dynamic.

Does anyone buy Fred's distaste for doing the mystical research? Seems like she might follow in Willow's footsteps and create a cross reference database for all of their books (provided they get enough time to do the translations to make a valid database).

Slumbering Fist

I agree. grunter can call this Angel season 'Bruckhiemer' all he wants, fine by me; I think both have begun to overplay soap opera storylines and character development. But at least, despite its plotting stumbles, Angel hasnt betrayed its characters. Buffy has taken characters I loved and trivialized them as well as awkwardly launch them in (by most fans opinions) misguided directions. It isnt the storyline/the bad guy arc that has me tuning into Angel,... lets face it we all saw the baby go bye bye, Connor coming back thing a mile away,... and, sure, last night I kept thinking about The Hidden. But, at least the Angel writers haven taken as big a dump on its characterizations as what we've seen happen with the Buffy crew (especially poor after school special Willow).

spainlinx0

This is in response to the person who said that Angel should have lost his soul because he believes that the birth of his son made him happier than Buffy. It wasn't the fact that Buffy made him happy that he lost his soul, it was the orgasm. The complete happiness or perfect happiness was simply a euphemism. That's why he wouldn't lose his soul just because he's happy being a father.

RolloTomasi

spainlinx0, there's certainly no proof of that theory. After all, Angel didn't lose his soul at the moment, but hours later, when he woke up in bed with Buffy.

And Angel did sleep with Darla; she being a former prostitute, I don't see why Angel wouldn't have lost his soul then. He did go there with the intention of doing so...

spainlinx0

It was also stated that he never "finished" with her. Remember he said "you weren't THAT good." And I thought the whole orgasm thing was pretty much understood. I mean we don't know how much later he woke up, but maybe that was all part of the transformation. He needed the rest to lose his soul or something lol. Still I always understood it as meaning he has to climax.

CaptainMarvel

Chalk one up for the "not the Big O that makes him lose his soul" bit. I'm sure Wolfram and Hart could come up with some sort of spell to make him do that, if that's all it took to lose his soul. I thought it had to be the happiness of the moment.

Snake Plissken

You really think sex is his perfect happiness? Damn people, that is not his curse. Every time he busts a nut he loses his soul? He LOVED Buffy. Loved her big time. Angel never loved Darla. Yeah, they were hooked up long ago but he never had those strong feelings for her.

That explains it.

das Monkey

Um ... that's what RolloTomasi was saying, if I understood him correctly. If sex took his soul, then he would have lost it with Darla ... defending essentially what you just said.

I've never believed that sex was what took Angel's soul, and I still don't believe that today. Buffy gave him a happiness he never knew. That's why I don't buy Buffy with any other men, and won't buy Angel with any other women. The strength of the Buffy/Angel relationship hasn't been approached by anything either show has done. In any case, the question of whether Angel should lose his soul with the birth of his child sounds like a valid one to me, though I can think of 100 "explanations" to disregard it.

das