Buffy 2-5-02
02-05-02, 08:43 PM
#1
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
Buffy 2-5-02
I only catch an occassional episode of Buffy nowadays and happened to catch tonight's. Overall, I thought it was a pretty solid episode in terms of acting and drama, I just could have gone without Dawn's whining.
SMG really does show depth with her character, and the David Lynch-esque approach to the time lapses were interesting as well (especially when they used Lynch as an adjective for the nature of the occurance!). I also had a desire to get one of the crystal balls like the three guys had at the beginning until I saw the repercussions of what happened. Interesting how they worked that little piece of reality into the story about what happens when harmless fun goes awry. Very interesting that they went with a rather downbeat ending with no real resolution as well.
Only question: my dumb UPN affiliate missed the preview for next week's episode, what is going to happen? I also hope that the so called Big Bad for this season doesn't wind up being the three wizard guys.
SMG really does show depth with her character, and the David Lynch-esque approach to the time lapses were interesting as well (especially when they used Lynch as an adjective for the nature of the occurance!). I also had a desire to get one of the crystal balls like the three guys had at the beginning until I saw the repercussions of what happened. Interesting how they worked that little piece of reality into the story about what happens when harmless fun goes awry. Very interesting that they went with a rather downbeat ending with no real resolution as well.
Only question: my dumb UPN affiliate missed the preview for next week's episode, what is going to happen? I also hope that the so called Big Bad for this season doesn't wind up being the three wizard guys.
02-05-02, 10:47 PM
#2
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very interesting episode. I must say I like Spike more and more every week. 
Helps of course that he is sexy as all get-out. 
And I find Buffy's situation extremely well-written and acted - being drawn to what you hate most in yourself and others to punish yourself/because you don't think you deserve better/etc.
As for the 3 "normal" guys - sometimes it's the quiet ones. After all, these guys are human, and they're able to do horrific things, some because they don't bother to think of the consequences, and one because he's really evil inside. I don't mind them being the big bad at all, if indeed that's the case.
Helps of course that he is sexy as all get-out. And I find Buffy's situation extremely well-written and acted - being drawn to what you hate most in yourself and others to punish yourself/because you don't think you deserve better/etc. As for the 3 "normal" guys - sometimes it's the quiet ones. After all, these guys are human, and they're able to do horrific things, some because they don't bother to think of the consequences, and one because he's really evil inside. I don't mind them being the big bad at all, if indeed that's the case.
02-05-02, 10:53 PM
#3
DVD Talk Special Edition
I find that I'm understanding Bipolar Buffy less and less these days. Sure, she's confused and despairing over the fact that he actions aren't due to some demon component or whatnot, but the sobbing at the end felt a little melodramatic to me. I'm sure it will probably make sense to me later, though.
At the Bronze, were Buffy and Spike supposed to be, er... having sex? It looked like they were trying to imply that, but that certainly would be... awkward. Speaking of, I'm really getting tired of B/S sex used to bracket scenes. It seems like... "Hmm... how should we transition from this scene to the next?" "Oh, I got it! Buffy and Spike *****!" "That's brilliant!"
Finally, we have a definite delineation of the evil within the Geek Trio. Warren is definitely far more amoral and sinister than previously imagined, and Andrew seems to enjoy their descent into murder. However, I loved that look on Jonathan's face, basically screaming "What the hell am I doing here? This isn't right!" Hope this will play out into a nice dramatic breakup of the troika.
In conclusion, a decent ep that definitely moved a season arc that has been stagnating -- definitely better than Doublemeat Palace.
About next week's ep:
At the Bronze, were Buffy and Spike supposed to be, er... having sex? It looked like they were trying to imply that, but that certainly would be... awkward. Speaking of, I'm really getting tired of B/S sex used to bracket scenes. It seems like... "Hmm... how should we transition from this scene to the next?" "Oh, I got it! Buffy and Spike *****!" "That's brilliant!"
Finally, we have a definite delineation of the evil within the Geek Trio. Warren is definitely far more amoral and sinister than previously imagined, and Andrew seems to enjoy their descent into murder. However, I loved that look on Jonathan's face, basically screaming "What the hell am I doing here? This isn't right!" Hope this will play out into a nice dramatic breakup of the troika.
In conclusion, a decent ep that definitely moved a season arc that has been stagnating -- definitely better than Doublemeat Palace.
About next week's ep:
Spoiler:
Last edited by RolloTomasi; 02-05-02 at 11:03 PM.
02-05-02, 11:08 PM
#4
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,454
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I liked the episode okay but there seems to be a lot of re-hashing old plot lines...especially this episode.
SMG was good as always but better in this episode, than most this season.
SMG was good as always but better in this episode, than most this season.
02-05-02, 11:29 PM
#5
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Now we're getting somewhere!
I liked the episode. Extra credit for referencing Lynch.
At first it looked like it was going to be just like the 'invisible Buffy' episode but soon managed to take a couple of turns.
We finally have some kind of understanding on Buffy's behavior - they've been saying it all along, but I guess now Buffy has to face up to herself.
Hopefully they'll build on this for the next episode.
At first it looked like it was going to be just like the 'invisible Buffy' episode but soon managed to take a couple of turns.
We finally have some kind of understanding on Buffy's behavior - they've been saying it all along, but I guess now Buffy has to face up to herself.
Hopefully they'll build on this for the next episode.
Spoiler:
02-05-02, 11:39 PM
#6
DVD Talk Hero
Buffy 2/5/02
Finally, I think Buffy is on her way to recovery. Right when Buffy is on the precipice of actually "enjoying" the quiet moments of her fling with Spike, it took Warren's plot to bring Spike and Buffy together to discover their crucial differences in outlook and philosophy.
Buffy's a hero, and with such a heart of a hero, she can only atone for her sins. Spike would rather cover up past transgressions. This much is now clear to Buffy. Now she know that to have Spike intimately in her life is to accept his ways and to abandon hers. I think Bufy has finally taken that first step to recovery: admitting that something is wrong, and it's not because of something mystical, but rather psychological, which can be overcome provided she seeks help. Tara may wind up being the key to some level of recovery for Buffy.
Overall the episode was good is setting up that Andrew might the nuttiest of the trio now that he's actually gotten a taste of true evil. Warren will appear to be in charge, but Andrw will be the true lack of moral center of the group as the season progresses. Jonathan does have that "WTF am I doing hanging around with not one, but two lunatics" look about him now. Jonathan will eventually turn on the two down the road because he's intrinsically not evil, but does want for things not easily available to him due to his lack of self-confidence and social construct.
The Bronze gave us a little taste of how Anya and Xander will be dancing the night away on the eve of their wedding. Also, the integration of Buffy into normalcy is still far away for her. Her avoidance for doing trivial communal things, like dancing with her friends, serve to distance from her friends for now.
Her relationship with Dawn will be strained. Dawn knows that Buffy values doing the right thing over her relationship with Dawn, and that Dawn comes in second to Buffy's ethics. From Dawn's perspective, it's horrible to know that your sister would rather turn herself into the authorities, rather than stay and take care of her. It doesn't make logical sense, bu it plays on Dawn's abandonment issues, think of the trauma of suffering through not only the loss of her mother, but also Buffy in a short period of time, and then to learn that Buffy would not choose her over "doing the right thing" makes it even harder for her to accept Buffy for who she is. It's frighteningly banal on the surface, but deep down, I understand why Dawn ran from Buffy once Buffy explained that it must have been Warren who set her up. Basically Buffy failed "the test" in Dawn's eyes.
Spike pressed his luck on Buffy one too many times, and in time Buffy will find the strength to become centered and not look towards Spike for a quick fix to get that sexual high that she's been craving. Basically Buffy was addicted to being with Spike, and she's gotten the wake-up call to kick the Spike habit. So the parallel arcs of Willow kicking her addiction to the feelings that magic gave her are finally playing out for the addiction of Buffy has for Spike.
The Willow - Tara scene was poignant on a small level, but necessary for Willow to accept that while she may never practice magic voluntarily, it's still okay to be around those who might, just like an alcoholic will never quite be in an alcohol-free environment, but she has free will to decide not to partake in the addiction. It's about Willow coming out of her cocoon, and dealing with its presence and moving on with her life.
Okay, no more babbling from moi...
Finally, I think Buffy is on her way to recovery. Right when Buffy is on the precipice of actually "enjoying" the quiet moments of her fling with Spike, it took Warren's plot to bring Spike and Buffy together to discover their crucial differences in outlook and philosophy.
Buffy's a hero, and with such a heart of a hero, she can only atone for her sins. Spike would rather cover up past transgressions. This much is now clear to Buffy. Now she know that to have Spike intimately in her life is to accept his ways and to abandon hers. I think Bufy has finally taken that first step to recovery: admitting that something is wrong, and it's not because of something mystical, but rather psychological, which can be overcome provided she seeks help. Tara may wind up being the key to some level of recovery for Buffy.
Overall the episode was good is setting up that Andrew might the nuttiest of the trio now that he's actually gotten a taste of true evil. Warren will appear to be in charge, but Andrw will be the true lack of moral center of the group as the season progresses. Jonathan does have that "WTF am I doing hanging around with not one, but two lunatics" look about him now. Jonathan will eventually turn on the two down the road because he's intrinsically not evil, but does want for things not easily available to him due to his lack of self-confidence and social construct.
The Bronze gave us a little taste of how Anya and Xander will be dancing the night away on the eve of their wedding. Also, the integration of Buffy into normalcy is still far away for her. Her avoidance for doing trivial communal things, like dancing with her friends, serve to distance from her friends for now.
Her relationship with Dawn will be strained. Dawn knows that Buffy values doing the right thing over her relationship with Dawn, and that Dawn comes in second to Buffy's ethics. From Dawn's perspective, it's horrible to know that your sister would rather turn herself into the authorities, rather than stay and take care of her. It doesn't make logical sense, bu it plays on Dawn's abandonment issues, think of the trauma of suffering through not only the loss of her mother, but also Buffy in a short period of time, and then to learn that Buffy would not choose her over "doing the right thing" makes it even harder for her to accept Buffy for who she is. It's frighteningly banal on the surface, but deep down, I understand why Dawn ran from Buffy once Buffy explained that it must have been Warren who set her up. Basically Buffy failed "the test" in Dawn's eyes.
Spike pressed his luck on Buffy one too many times, and in time Buffy will find the strength to become centered and not look towards Spike for a quick fix to get that sexual high that she's been craving. Basically Buffy was addicted to being with Spike, and she's gotten the wake-up call to kick the Spike habit. So the parallel arcs of Willow kicking her addiction to the feelings that magic gave her are finally playing out for the addiction of Buffy has for Spike.
The Willow - Tara scene was poignant on a small level, but necessary for Willow to accept that while she may never practice magic voluntarily, it's still okay to be around those who might, just like an alcoholic will never quite be in an alcohol-free environment, but she has free will to decide not to partake in the addiction. It's about Willow coming out of her cocoon, and dealing with its presence and moving on with her life.
Okay, no more babbling from moi...
02-06-02, 12:15 AM
#7
DVD Talk Legend
Well I really enjoyed most of this episode although it dragged a bit in some scenes. I guess I'm one of the few people who have liked the trio from the beginning. I never grew tired of their jokes and I thought they really reminded me of Buffy when I first started watching when it was more of a mix of humor and drama. I REALLY liked the way the murder scene played out. I saw them turning darker coming, but the way it was done just struck all the right chords for me. And THANK GOD they did not drag out Buffy finding out that she wasn't responsible. I'm glad it didn't go for an hour about how she doesn't KNOW she didn't really kill that girl. At least she figured it out right away which I was definitely grateful for.
02-06-02, 01:17 AM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Overall, pretty good.
Take one part Consequences, mix with one part Ted, and throw in a /really/ creepy rape-plotline and yet more B/S Boinkage, and this episode comes up.
The geeks evolution to evil rings false with me. Warren's always been pretty bad, but Jonathan and Andrew were inexplicably 'evil' this episode (I mean, Jonathan's /never/ wanted to hurt Buffy--suddenly he's all murder-framing guy). I did like the fact that Jonathan doesn't seem to be as hyped up about getting away with murder as the rest, though. Go, Jonathan, Go!
Biggest geek-related annoyance: Like A&J didn't realize what they were going to do was pretty much rape? Katrina wasn't acting like a normal person--there was no way they could have fooled themselves into thinking she 'wanted' it. I can buy a certain amount of stupidity, but they were /way/ too shocked when she accused them.
The Buffy/Spike relationship seems to have received some subtle development tonight. The one semi-normal post-sex scene we've seen so far is cut short, and their next session involves some /very/ disturbing conversation (Well, not that his mentioning "eating a decorator" wasn't kind of disturbing; it's just not as squicky as the "you don't belong with them" thing.)
But I think the biggest thing is that Spike, outside the police station, has basically shown that he can *never* become a good person. He lacks a soul, and we've been shown that it means something. He doesn't get what's wrong with accidentally killing someone. He doesn't give a damn about the dead girl, only about Buffy. His current status of "good" is directly tied into his feelings for her. And, without her, he may act like a good guy for a while, but it's almost certain that he'd eventually rationalize his way back towards evil. The importance of a soul has been an issue of debate for a while, and I have to think that scene was meant to show that it has some validity (You can be soulless and do good, but without a soul, one has no way to truly /be/ good).
The whole Tara thing was well enough done, but I don't vibe with the character, so it's all moot to me.
One of the top three or four episodes of this season so far. Moved *very* quickly, which I liked. No more thinly-disguised penis-monsters at the Doublemeat Palace earned it triplepoints.
Take one part Consequences, mix with one part Ted, and throw in a /really/ creepy rape-plotline and yet more B/S Boinkage, and this episode comes up.
The geeks evolution to evil rings false with me. Warren's always been pretty bad, but Jonathan and Andrew were inexplicably 'evil' this episode (I mean, Jonathan's /never/ wanted to hurt Buffy--suddenly he's all murder-framing guy). I did like the fact that Jonathan doesn't seem to be as hyped up about getting away with murder as the rest, though. Go, Jonathan, Go!
Biggest geek-related annoyance: Like A&J didn't realize what they were going to do was pretty much rape? Katrina wasn't acting like a normal person--there was no way they could have fooled themselves into thinking she 'wanted' it. I can buy a certain amount of stupidity, but they were /way/ too shocked when she accused them.
The Buffy/Spike relationship seems to have received some subtle development tonight. The one semi-normal post-sex scene we've seen so far is cut short, and their next session involves some /very/ disturbing conversation (Well, not that his mentioning "eating a decorator" wasn't kind of disturbing; it's just not as squicky as the "you don't belong with them" thing.)
But I think the biggest thing is that Spike, outside the police station, has basically shown that he can *never* become a good person. He lacks a soul, and we've been shown that it means something. He doesn't get what's wrong with accidentally killing someone. He doesn't give a damn about the dead girl, only about Buffy. His current status of "good" is directly tied into his feelings for her. And, without her, he may act like a good guy for a while, but it's almost certain that he'd eventually rationalize his way back towards evil. The importance of a soul has been an issue of debate for a while, and I have to think that scene was meant to show that it has some validity (You can be soulless and do good, but without a soul, one has no way to truly /be/ good).
The whole Tara thing was well enough done, but I don't vibe with the character, so it's all moot to me.
One of the top three or four episodes of this season so far. Moved *very* quickly, which I liked. No more thinly-disguised penis-monsters at the Doublemeat Palace earned it triplepoints.
02-06-02, 07:44 AM
#9
DVD Talk Hero
Finally, something happening this season ...
I have been annoyed all season with the fact that Jonathan is even participating in this nonsense and hoping he would ultimately break from the group. It appears this could be the case. He may like to screw around with stuff, but Buffy's bailed him out too many times to turn on her, and he's never exhibited "evil" tendancies, just difficult adolescent stuff.
I have been insisting that Buffy's thing with Spike is about her own personal problems, nothing to do with "coming back wrong" or being "in love" with him. The first appears to be finally eliminated. The latter is still up for debate, but I don't think it's the case either.
Now if they can just get the Willow storyline back on track, we may have something.
Dawn needs to grow up. Back in Season 5, we had like 8 episodes centered around her feeling neglected. Get over it already. Your sister is the Slayer. She loves you. She freakin' died to save your life. You've had like 15 heart-to-heart talks where she's demonstrated her love for you and her difficulty with her new life. Stop being such a bitch and show some support. Maybe it's time for Xander (remember him? he used to be on this show) to step in and set her straight.
I also liked the "rape" thing. The look on Jonathan's face was great. It sounds like a good idea to use magic to "get chicks and stuff" until you realize what that really is.
Spike: Don't worry. I took care of it. They'll never find the body.
Cop: Let's go. We found a body at the lake.
das
I have been annoyed all season with the fact that Jonathan is even participating in this nonsense and hoping he would ultimately break from the group. It appears this could be the case. He may like to screw around with stuff, but Buffy's bailed him out too many times to turn on her, and he's never exhibited "evil" tendancies, just difficult adolescent stuff.
I have been insisting that Buffy's thing with Spike is about her own personal problems, nothing to do with "coming back wrong" or being "in love" with him. The first appears to be finally eliminated. The latter is still up for debate, but I don't think it's the case either.
Now if they can just get the Willow storyline back on track, we may have something.
Dawn needs to grow up. Back in Season 5, we had like 8 episodes centered around her feeling neglected. Get over it already. Your sister is the Slayer. She loves you. She freakin' died to save your life. You've had like 15 heart-to-heart talks where she's demonstrated her love for you and her difficulty with her new life. Stop being such a bitch and show some support. Maybe it's time for Xander (remember him? he used to be on this show) to step in and set her straight.
I also liked the "rape" thing. The look on Jonathan's face was great. It sounds like a good idea to use magic to "get chicks and stuff" until you realize what that really is.
Spike: Don't worry. I took care of it. They'll never find the body.
Cop: Let's go. We found a body at the lake.
das
02-06-02, 09:06 AM
#10
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: wishing I was in Vegas
Posts: 6,646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Patman
...think of the trauma of suffering through not only the loss of her mother, but also Buffy in a short period of time, and then to learn that Buffy would not choose her over "doing the right thing" makes it even harder for her to accept Buffy for who she is.
...think of the trauma of suffering through not only the loss of her mother, but also Buffy in a short period of time, and then to learn that Buffy would not choose her over "doing the right thing" makes it even harder for her to accept Buffy for who she is.
I can’t help but wonder why Buffy would go to the police for anything. The police have had practically no presence in the past. People have been killed, the school was blowed up, the town overrun, people stampeded and cattle raped. Hell, in a place like that I would expect there to be a strong National Guard presence. But no. In point of fact, Buffy IS the town police. So it makes no sense to me that she would want to turn herself in.
I’m getting as tired of them whipping the sex-with-Spike-is-bad thingie as many are of Dawn’s whining. Buffy and Spike are almost exactly alike which is where the problem lies. Spike is very comfortable with who he is. Buffy, on the other hand, has never liked her lot in life and dislikes herself as a consequence. (I’d go so far as to say she hates herself, but I think that might be a little strong.) Until she develops some amount of self-acceptance, she’ll never be happy with her relationship with Spike.
I’m convinced that Andrew and Jonathan have yet to experience puberty…
Huh-huh. Spike said “Balls!” Huh-huh. Huh-huh.
02-06-02, 10:33 AM
#11
DVD Talk Hero
In trying to understand why Dawn acts like a whiney beeyotch, even with the immaculate conception of Dawn, I think you do have to treat her like a human with feelings. Otherwise, just feed her to Spike and be done with the character.
02-06-02, 10:57 AM
#12
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by Wizdar
Hello? Are we forgetting Dawn’s origins, or rather lack of same? So, we’re all buyin’ into the “Dawn is a member of the family now and her lack of a past doesn’t make any difference” thingie? I just want to make sure I’m on the same page as the rest of y’all…
No, but she needs something new to whine about. The "I'm neglected" thing has worn too thin. I didn't mind the "I'm not human" whining or the first 7 instances of "you don't love me" whining, but it's time to move on.
I can’t help but wonder why Buffy would go to the police for anything. The police have had practically no presence in the past. People have been killed, the school was blowed up, the town overrun, people stampeded and cattle raped. Hell, in a place like that I would expect there to be a strong National Guard presence. But no. In point of fact, Buffy IS the town police. So it makes no sense to me that she would want to turn herself in.
It was a remorse thing. As a police force, they are useless, but as an authority figure, they still hold some established credibility. They're an institution that Buffy can run to to be punished for her actions, since she has no adult figure in her life now.
I’m getting as tired of them whipping the sex-with-Spike-is-bad thingie as many are of Dawn’s whining. Buffy and Spike are almost exactly alike which is where the problem lies. Spike is very comfortable with who he is. Buffy, on the other hand, has never liked her lot in life and dislikes herself as a consequence. (I’d go so far as to say she hates herself, but I think that might be a little strong.) Until she develops some amount of self-acceptance, she’ll never be happy with her relationship with Spike.
I'd say the same except I think she's with Spike BECAUSE of what you said and when she develops the self-acceptance, she'll realize that Spike is just a vehicle for her self-loathing.
das
Hello? Are we forgetting Dawn’s origins, or rather lack of same? So, we’re all buyin’ into the “Dawn is a member of the family now and her lack of a past doesn’t make any difference” thingie? I just want to make sure I’m on the same page as the rest of y’all…
No, but she needs something new to whine about. The "I'm neglected" thing has worn too thin. I didn't mind the "I'm not human" whining or the first 7 instances of "you don't love me" whining, but it's time to move on.
I can’t help but wonder why Buffy would go to the police for anything. The police have had practically no presence in the past. People have been killed, the school was blowed up, the town overrun, people stampeded and cattle raped. Hell, in a place like that I would expect there to be a strong National Guard presence. But no. In point of fact, Buffy IS the town police. So it makes no sense to me that she would want to turn herself in.
It was a remorse thing. As a police force, they are useless, but as an authority figure, they still hold some established credibility. They're an institution that Buffy can run to to be punished for her actions, since she has no adult figure in her life now.
I’m getting as tired of them whipping the sex-with-Spike-is-bad thingie as many are of Dawn’s whining. Buffy and Spike are almost exactly alike which is where the problem lies. Spike is very comfortable with who he is. Buffy, on the other hand, has never liked her lot in life and dislikes herself as a consequence. (I’d go so far as to say she hates herself, but I think that might be a little strong.) Until she develops some amount of self-acceptance, she’ll never be happy with her relationship with Spike.
I'd say the same except I think she's with Spike BECAUSE of what you said and when she develops the self-acceptance, she'll realize that Spike is just a vehicle for her self-loathing.
das
02-06-02, 11:09 AM
#13
Did anybody else take the scene where she walked up to Spike's crypt as her almost "kicking the habit" by staking him? She had a pretty determined look on her face while she was walking up, and Spike standing one one side of the door waiting for her was juxtaposed with her standing on the other side of the door clutching a weapon. I figured her resolve to do it just crumbled, and she ran.
02-06-02, 12:48 PM
#14
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: wishing I was in Vegas
Posts: 6,646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Patman
...just feed her to Spike and be done with the character.
...just feed her to Spike and be done with the character.
Originally posted by das Monkey
I'd say the same except I think she's with Spike BECAUSE of what you said and when she develops the self-acceptance, she'll realize that Spike is just a vehicle for her self-loathing.
das
I'd say the same except I think she's with Spike BECAUSE of what you said and when she develops the self-acceptance, she'll realize that Spike is just a vehicle for her self-loathing.
das
I'm sure there was no double entendres meant with the "vehicle" thing, but nevertheless,
02-06-02, 12:56 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So I had to take an extended lunch and run home to watch Buffy in Tivo. Only one viewing but here's my thoughts (fwiw)...
~Have to agree with WarriorPrincess that Spike is super-sexy and him being in an episode pretty much makes it good..I give it 2 stakes up
~I've got to come out of the closet and say I'm the only person that doesn't hate Dawn...yeah, she's a whiny 15-16 year old...but having been one, trust me she's not that bad.
~I don't think Buffy went to Spike's crypt for a staking (of the wooden or flesh variety)...I thought the whole thing was supposed to be romantic-ish with them both knowing the other person is on the other side of the door scenario. I truly believe Buffy is starting to realize she has feelings for Spike and knows that she's been using him...and although she needs him physically right now (to make her feel anything, in her own words) she stops herself as she knows its the wrong thing to continue to do, for the both of them.
~Willow seems to be coming back to more old Willow with the clever comments and such..that was nice to see.
~The Troika - agree with above comments that Jonathan may be backing out soon, real soon...I've always thought Warren was pretty much an evil pig and I agree that Andrew is leaning towards Warren in evil-ness, but in a splintered, obvious psychopath way versus Warren who's a cool, calm collected psychopath.
~Finally, I just want to say that the 3 of them dancing in the Bronze was probably the most frightening thing on the whole show. There's a reason I only dance after several drinks - helps me ease out of my pre-disposed "jewish white girl" kicking and flailing
~Have to agree with WarriorPrincess that Spike is super-sexy and him being in an episode pretty much makes it good..I give it 2 stakes up
~I've got to come out of the closet and say I'm the only person that doesn't hate Dawn...yeah, she's a whiny 15-16 year old...but having been one, trust me she's not that bad.
~I don't think Buffy went to Spike's crypt for a staking (of the wooden or flesh variety)...I thought the whole thing was supposed to be romantic-ish with them both knowing the other person is on the other side of the door scenario. I truly believe Buffy is starting to realize she has feelings for Spike and knows that she's been using him...and although she needs him physically right now (to make her feel anything, in her own words) she stops herself as she knows its the wrong thing to continue to do, for the both of them.
~Willow seems to be coming back to more old Willow with the clever comments and such..that was nice to see.
~The Troika - agree with above comments that Jonathan may be backing out soon, real soon...I've always thought Warren was pretty much an evil pig and I agree that Andrew is leaning towards Warren in evil-ness, but in a splintered, obvious psychopath way versus Warren who's a cool, calm collected psychopath.
~Finally, I just want to say that the 3 of them dancing in the Bronze was probably the most frightening thing on the whole show. There's a reason I only dance after several drinks - helps me ease out of my pre-disposed "jewish white girl" kicking and flailing
02-06-02, 01:09 PM
#16
DVD Talk Hero
We tried this on another forum, but let's say that Buffy decides she needs to talk to a shrink, and that shrink is Ally McBeal's shrink (the one that has that speech tic that makes him pause before saying words that start with a "kuh" consonant sound, and tilts his head to the left as he's saying the words).
Okay, have fun making up their session:
Okay, have fun making up their session:
02-06-02, 01:30 PM
#17
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by Patman
We tried this on another forum, but let's say that Buffy decides she needs to talk to a shrink, and that shrink is Ally McBeal's shrink (the one that has that speech tic that makes him pause before saying words that start with a "kuh" consonant sound, and tilts his head to the left as he's saying the words).
Okay, have fun making up their session:
We tried this on another forum, but let's say that Buffy decides she needs to talk to a shrink, and that shrink is Ally McBeal's shrink (the one that has that speech tic that makes him pause before saying words that start with a "kuh" consonant sound, and tilts his head to the left as he's saying the words).
Okay, have fun making up their session:
I ju-ju-ju-just can't understand wh-wh-why I have ... these ... feeeeelings for Spike. [bobs head from side to side]
Go to the boy.
But I-I-I-I caan't [whining]
Kuuuu-ant [tilts head] ... or won't?
I've been down ... down ... down ... I've been down ...
[Spike bursts through the door and strangles Vonda Shephard]
[Crowd goes wild]
das
Last edited by das Monkey; 02-06-02 at 01:35 PM.
02-06-02, 02:30 PM
#19
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: wishing I was in Vegas
Posts: 6,646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Buffisawhiner?
Edit: according to a coupla sites, Buffy comes from the name Bunny. And considering the main focus of the program of late...
Edit: according to a coupla sites, Buffy comes from the name Bunny. And considering the main focus of the program of late...
Last edited by Wizdar; 02-06-02 at 02:35 PM.
02-06-02, 02:33 PM
#20
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You guys crack me up.
I keep thinking (wishing, in actuality) that they should curse Spike with a soul. He's proven it's his heart's wish to be with Buffy, and when he didn't know who he was (the amnesia ep) his gut told him he was good. And when confronted with the fact that he was a vampire, he assumed he was a vampire with a soul. Great cause for laughs in the ep, but I think it rings with a truth that has been ignored. Spike WANTS to be good. It's just that without a soul he doesn't know how (doesn't know that it's wrong to not be upset if an innocent dies - to him it's all a balancing act and Buffy comes out way ahead).
For those that think this aspect of his thinking is so abhorrent, I would say look at most of society. Many MANY people who do have souls do far worse things every day. Granted, Spike does what he does mostly because of his love for Buffy, but aside from that I honestly think he wants to be good. So I say go all the way - give him a soul. He deserves it on so many levels (retribution for those he killed and a reward for wanting to be good and following through as much as he is capable). Cursed and blessed at the same time. I think it's fitting.
I keep thinking (wishing, in actuality
) that they should curse Spike with a soul. He's proven it's his heart's wish to be with Buffy, and when he didn't know who he was (the amnesia ep) his gut told him he was good. And when confronted with the fact that he was a vampire, he assumed he was a vampire with a soul. Great cause for laughs in the ep, but I think it rings with a truth that has been ignored. Spike WANTS to be good. It's just that without a soul he doesn't know how (doesn't know that it's wrong to not be upset if an innocent dies - to him it's all a balancing act and Buffy comes out way ahead). For those that think this aspect of his thinking is so abhorrent, I would say look at most of society. Many MANY people who do have souls do far worse things every day. Granted, Spike does what he does mostly because of his love for Buffy, but aside from that I honestly think he wants to be good. So I say go all the way - give him a soul. He deserves it on so many levels (retribution for those he killed and a reward for wanting to be good and following through as much as he is capable). Cursed and blessed at the same time. I think it's fitting.
Last edited by WarriorPrincess; 02-06-02 at 02:36 PM.
02-06-02, 03:36 PM
#21
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: wishing I was in Vegas
Posts: 6,646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WarriorPrincess, when I mentioned before how Buffy and Spike were alike, I had in mind much of what you said. Spike kills people. (Well, he used to…) [Spike voice] ‘ey, it’s w’at I do! [/voice] Buffy kills vamps. (Well, she used to…) Both feel natural at doing what they do. Problem is, Buffy can’t come to terms with the fact that Spike does exactly what she does, except for the type of victim.
I think there’s a lot of folks who can’t/won’t accept that Spike has turned into a goody-goody these days. When you think about it, he’s the only vamp who seems to have a soul. Fits in with the way things have been going, but it’s totally contrary to the nature of the beast.
But even when he was nasty, he still had a need for feminine companionship. Otherwise, why the hell would he have stayed with Harmony as long as he did? Seems to be his weakness.
Is he REALLY in love? The writers seem to think so. But if you examine the character closely, I think you’ll find he’s only after his own wants and needs. Does he “honestly” want to be good? Again, the way things have been going you might be right. But, let’s face it. Replace Buffy and take the chip out of his head and he’d turn badass in a heartbeat. At least he SHOULD if the writers would take a moment and read up on Buffyverse.
I think there’s a lot of folks who can’t/won’t accept that Spike has turned into a goody-goody these days. When you think about it, he’s the only vamp who seems to have a soul. Fits in with the way things have been going, but it’s totally contrary to the nature of the beast.
But even when he was nasty, he still had a need for feminine companionship. Otherwise, why the hell would he have stayed with Harmony as long as he did? Seems to be his weakness.
Is he REALLY in love? The writers seem to think so. But if you examine the character closely, I think you’ll find he’s only after his own wants and needs. Does he “honestly” want to be good? Again, the way things have been going you might be right. But, let’s face it. Replace Buffy and take the chip out of his head and he’d turn badass in a heartbeat. At least he SHOULD if the writers would take a moment and read up on Buffyverse.
02-06-02, 03:49 PM
#22
DVD Talk Reviewer
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was better than the onslaught of horrible/weak Buffys' they've had in a row. Still had some bad writing- the all too convienant exposition at the police station "I got rid of the body"- "We found a body"- Buffy walks into the station and the officer convienantly clues Bufy in that eh girl was Warrens girlfriend. I saw more believable setups on a He-Man cartoon.
As far as Spikes evil- I think the lack of a chip has him stray towards good and love and positive emotions, even nobility, but everyone is right- his lack of a soul still means no remorse. He's not all-bad but not all-good either... If you think about it, Anya is the same. The lack of her demonic powers has her straying towards good, yet, she has no remorse whatsoever for her days as a demon. When they announced the Xander-Anya marriage my best friend came up with an interesting theory: Anya could break Xanders heart at the alter, pulling a human version of her vengeance demon ways, perhaps to win herslef back into the dark sides graces. With D'Hoffryn and other demons scheduled to show up at the wedding, my friends theory looks even more possible. You never know...
As far as Spikes evil- I think the lack of a chip has him stray towards good and love and positive emotions, even nobility, but everyone is right- his lack of a soul still means no remorse. He's not all-bad but not all-good either... If you think about it, Anya is the same. The lack of her demonic powers has her straying towards good, yet, she has no remorse whatsoever for her days as a demon. When they announced the Xander-Anya marriage my best friend came up with an interesting theory: Anya could break Xanders heart at the alter, pulling a human version of her vengeance demon ways, perhaps to win herslef back into the dark sides graces. With D'Hoffryn and other demons scheduled to show up at the wedding, my friends theory looks even more possible. You never know...
02-06-02, 04:02 PM
#23
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by Wizdar
Is he REALLY in love? The writers seem to think so. But if you examine the character closely, I think you’ll find he’s only after his own wants and needs. Does he “honestly” want to be good? Again, the way things have been going you might be right. But, let’s face it. Replace Buffy and take the chip out of his head and he’d turn badass in a heartbeat. At least he SHOULD if the writers would take a moment and read up on Buffyverse.
Is he REALLY in love? The writers seem to think so. But if you examine the character closely, I think you’ll find he’s only after his own wants and needs. Does he “honestly” want to be good? Again, the way things have been going you might be right. But, let’s face it. Replace Buffy and take the chip out of his head and he’d turn badass in a heartbeat. At least he SHOULD if the writers would take a moment and read up on Buffyverse.
And the SECOND he thought the chip wasn't working, a few episodes ago, he tried to kill someone. So I think they are being fairly consistent with the character.
02-06-02, 05:12 PM
#24
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Slumbering Fist
As far as Spikes evil- I think the lack of a chip has him stray towards good and love and positive emotions, even nobility, but everyone is right- his lack of a soul still means no remorse. He's not all-bad but not all-good either... If you think about it, Anya is the same. The lack of her demonic powers has her straying towards good, yet, she has no remorse whatsoever for her days as a demon. When they announced the Xander-Anya marriage my best friend came up with an interesting theory: Anya could break Xanders heart at the alter, pulling a human version of her vengeance demon ways, perhaps to win herslef back into the dark sides graces. With D'Hoffryn and other demons scheduled to show up at the wedding, my friends theory looks even more possible. You never know...
As far as Spikes evil- I think the lack of a chip has him stray towards good and love and positive emotions, even nobility, but everyone is right- his lack of a soul still means no remorse. He's not all-bad but not all-good either... If you think about it, Anya is the same. The lack of her demonic powers has her straying towards good, yet, she has no remorse whatsoever for her days as a demon. When they announced the Xander-Anya marriage my best friend came up with an interesting theory: Anya could break Xanders heart at the alter, pulling a human version of her vengeance demon ways, perhaps to win herslef back into the dark sides graces. With D'Hoffryn and other demons scheduled to show up at the wedding, my friends theory looks even more possible. You never know...
While only a casual Buffy fan, I have some interesting theories of my own as to how this wedding might come off. As almost everyone who watches any kind of prime time drama knows, weddings almost always end in tragedy for the most part. (Ex: Dynasty, Beverly Hills 90210 (Dylan's wife gets wasted), and I think Knots Landing) Anyway, everything this season seems to be leading towards a great return of evil, whether it be Spike, Anya, or maybe Willow. Well I was thinking, what if it were all three? I don't know when the wedding episode is set to air, but if it is the finale it could really set up a neat scenario for the seventh and (rumored) final season. How about this: Spike's chip is deactivated, Anya returns to the darkside, and then Willow also ultimately falls to evil, thus forming a formidable trio of opposition for faltering Scoobs. It could play on the premise that the big bad's for the final season will all be individuals formerly close to Buffy or the Scoobs. Like the old adage: Keep your friends close, but your enemies even closer! They could be quite lethal with their skills combined, like a Buffy version of the nWo, but that's the wrestling angle fan in me coming out
02-06-02, 05:38 PM
#25
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
A major battle at a wedding would make a great finale. Didn't that happen to the Fantastic Four?
Interesting debate about Spike's character. No matter what, I don't know if I want him hanging with gang like a love sick puppy when the season is over. Something's gotta give.
Edit: Ah, my 1000th post. I wouldn't have made it this quick if it wasn't for Buffy.
Speaking of which, did anyone watch the doppleganger episode on F/X this week? They edited the crap out of it!
Interesting debate about Spike's character. No matter what, I don't know if I want him hanging with gang like a love sick puppy when the season is over. Something's gotta give.
Edit: Ah, my 1000th post. I wouldn't have made it this quick if it wasn't for Buffy.
Speaking of which, did anyone watch the doppleganger episode on F/X this week? They edited the crap out of it!
Last edited by MrN; 02-06-02 at 05:41 PM.