Should I DISH or not
12-24-01 | 12:53 PM
#26
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From: wishing I was in Vegas
The subject is evil
das, thanks for a post-holiday shopping list. With your dedication to TV watching, I’m sure I would not be wanting with a similar system.
However, the first paragraph of the above is most unlike the usual reliable information I depend on. I attribute it to your being rushed to smoke some more crack.
My understanding of the purpose of the Dual LNB ("dual-feed") dish is to provide signals for two separate receivers. That being the case, I stand behind my assertion that the concept is BS, and that my antenna on the roof analogy holds.
I don’t understand the magical powers you attribute to the dish, particularly that of handling signals from multiple satellites. When you change the channel, it switches the satellite you're using. Only if you move the dish. The dish is nothing more than a mechanical reflecting and focusing device.
But remember, the subject was evil. [For the purpose of this discussion, let’s ignore the concept of piracy, shall we?] There are cable systems out there that provide quite a number of channels, without fancy decoder boxes, directly to a "cable ready" TV. They are taking the exact type of signal your dish receives and converting it to a signal containing the RF signals needed by your TV.
There is no reason that a satellite receiver cannot do the same thing. It has nothing to do with cost. Whatever equipment is needed could be mass produced just as satellite receivers are now which would lower costs to the consumer.
It has nothing to do with cost. It has everything to do with money. And money = evil.
When vcrs first came out they were not cheap. The manufacturers were the only ones making money off them. Joe Sixpack had no interest in them. Then prerecorded videos came along and now the studios had a vested interest. Without vcrs, there was nothing for their product to be played on. Suddenly the price of equipment came down and everybody was buying. [This could go on to the chicken/egg controversy, but let’s avoid that, too, OK?] A similar thing happened with the DVD market, but since the video market was already established, the changeover was almost instantaneous. Had the studios been more resistant to this, it would have been another story.
When satellite TV first made it to the home market (I’m talking about 5 foot + moving dishes) they were not cheap. Joe had no interest in them either. [Well, SOME Joes wanted them because a dish looked really bitchen on the front lawn amongst all the cars-up-on-blocks. But I digress.] Then cable came along and Joe still wasn’t interested (in satellite dishes), and those with a dish found they were starting to seize up and rust much like their front-yard cars.
And, lo, a great thinker found that many had learned that cable was evil. And they hated it mightily, but lamented greatly, for without cable there could be no HBO. And the great thinker heard the lamentations of the people and did say, "Let us put the antennae back upon the rooftops from whence they should have never fallen. But we should not point them at the evil places, such as Los Angeles, New York, or Atlanta []. Rather we shall point to the heavens to honor the gods (and the satellites I have leased)."
And the great thinker did say to the Manufacturites, "Thy prices are too high. Work with me to slay the evil cable." And together they did pray, and lo, the prices did fall.
There is no reason that Dish/DirecTV receivers could not have been made In The Beginning to provide a signal for my "cable ready" TV. With the receiver in a central location, and cables going where I wish, I can watch a program in one room while my wife watches something else in another.
Remember the subject? The reason that neither modern cable systems NOR Dish/DirecTV systems provide that type of output is control and money. This is the way they can offer different “packages” for different prices. They can change these packages at any time they see fit. And regardless of which station is on your "must have" list, it will always be on the premium lineup.
Make no mistake about it, das, they are ALL evil!
Now, let’s talk about the spawn of the Devil that is Tivo…
[Passengers and crew rush to subdue Wizdar and beat him senseless with a sandy 2-by-4.]
However, the first paragraph of the above is most unlike the usual reliable information I depend on. I attribute it to your being rushed to smoke some more crack.
My understanding of the purpose of the Dual LNB ("dual-feed") dish is to provide signals for two separate receivers. That being the case, I stand behind my assertion that the concept is BS, and that my antenna on the roof analogy holds.
I don’t understand the magical powers you attribute to the dish, particularly that of handling signals from multiple satellites. When you change the channel, it switches the satellite you're using. Only if you move the dish. The dish is nothing more than a mechanical reflecting and focusing device.
But remember, the subject was evil. [For the purpose of this discussion, let’s ignore the concept of piracy, shall we?] There are cable systems out there that provide quite a number of channels, without fancy decoder boxes, directly to a "cable ready" TV. They are taking the exact type of signal your dish receives and converting it to a signal containing the RF signals needed by your TV.
There is no reason that a satellite receiver cannot do the same thing. It has nothing to do with cost. Whatever equipment is needed could be mass produced just as satellite receivers are now which would lower costs to the consumer.
It has nothing to do with cost. It has everything to do with money. And money = evil.
When vcrs first came out they were not cheap. The manufacturers were the only ones making money off them. Joe Sixpack had no interest in them. Then prerecorded videos came along and now the studios had a vested interest. Without vcrs, there was nothing for their product to be played on. Suddenly the price of equipment came down and everybody was buying. [This could go on to the chicken/egg controversy, but let’s avoid that, too, OK?] A similar thing happened with the DVD market, but since the video market was already established, the changeover was almost instantaneous. Had the studios been more resistant to this, it would have been another story.
When satellite TV first made it to the home market (I’m talking about 5 foot + moving dishes) they were not cheap. Joe had no interest in them either. [Well, SOME Joes wanted them because a dish looked really bitchen on the front lawn amongst all the cars-up-on-blocks. But I digress.] Then cable came along and Joe still wasn’t interested (in satellite dishes), and those with a dish found they were starting to seize up and rust much like their front-yard cars.
And, lo, a great thinker found that many had learned that cable was evil. And they hated it mightily, but lamented greatly, for without cable there could be no HBO. And the great thinker heard the lamentations of the people and did say, "Let us put the antennae back upon the rooftops from whence they should have never fallen. But we should not point them at the evil places, such as Los Angeles, New York, or Atlanta [
]. Rather we shall point to the heavens to honor the gods (and the satellites I have leased)."And the great thinker did say to the Manufacturites, "Thy prices are too high. Work with me to slay the evil cable." And together they did pray, and lo, the prices did fall.
There is no reason that Dish/DirecTV receivers could not have been made In The Beginning to provide a signal for my "cable ready" TV. With the receiver in a central location, and cables going where I wish, I can watch a program in one room while my wife watches something else in another.
Remember the subject? The reason that neither modern cable systems NOR Dish/DirecTV systems provide that type of output is control and money. This is the way they can offer different “packages” for different prices. They can change these packages at any time they see fit. And regardless of which station is on your "must have" list, it will always be on the premium lineup.
Make no mistake about it, das, they are ALL evil!
Now, let’s talk about the spawn of the Devil that is Tivo…
[Passengers and crew rush to subdue Wizdar and beat him senseless with a sandy 2-by-4.]
12-24-01 | 03:13 PM
#27
There is definitely a little crack smokeage in my above post, as it looks like I kept refering to transponders as satellites. Luckily, I don't have someone yelling at me now (but I am in a hurry to get to my parents' house for Christmas, so the explanation will be somewhat brief).
DirecTV has a few satellites up in the sky, not sure how many. I think there are three at 101 and a few more at 110 and 119 west long. Anyway, that's not really important. What is important is that these sats have ~32 transponders that transmit the channels down to earth. Each transponder transmits a certain set of channels. They use insanely high frequencies ... many gigahertz ... don't remember. Anyway, each transponder transmits the channels at that frequency, and to eliminate interference with so much focused data so close together, each transponder is alternately polarized. The evens are righthand circular (or left) polarized, and the odds are lefthand circular (or right) polarized.
The LNB does two things. First it amps the signal, as it comes through considerably weak (obviously), and secondly, it down-converts it to frequencies that an RG-6 cable can handle. The LNB can't handle both polarizations at one time, so when you change the channel, the LNB is told what polarization to use (RHCP or LHCP), and it gets the signal for you. In theory, you COULD use your LNB to get half the channels and split that signal to multiple TVs, but you'd probably want to buy an amplifier, and you'd lose your second channel the second you switched to an alternate polarization. This would be insane. That's why the dual LNB exists.
You can use the dual LNB in two ways. First, it can just be simply 2 LNBs, one for each receiver, and when you request a channel, it uses the right polarization. Or you can use it the way most people do, and lock one LNB to even transponders (RHCP) and the other to odd transponders (LHCP). After the data has been down-converted, the signals can be run through a multiswitch (similar in principle an RF splitter). The signals are activated by different voltages, 13/14 and 18 I think. That's what's on my multiswitch anyway. It takes the RHCP through the +13V and the LHCP through the +18V. The multiswitch then amps the signal and splits it as many ways as necessary.
If you want to get as many channels as they're sending through the sky on a small and affordable dish at a high bitrate, then there's really no way around all of this. And like I said before, it's not a big deal. Even before they were giving this stuff away, the cost of a second LNB and a multiswitch wasn't much more than that of a decent RF splitter, and there's no quality loss. I don't see the problem with this setup, and I certainly don't find it evil. Evil is what AT&T does. Removing channels from their basic package and raising the rates to bully customers into "upgrading" to their digital service ... that's evil. Leaving Comcast subscribers without service and rerouting all CSR traffic to /dev/null ... that's evil.
DirecTV is a business, and they're trying to make a profit like anyone else, but they've done nothing that I see as unfair or unreasonable. I have a degree in Electrical Engineering from Georgia Tech, and I'm not sure how I'd go about designing a better system. They're trying to send an assload of data, and alternating polarizations helps them cram more data into a smaller frequency block. And in any case, hindsight's 20/20. Considering how long ago they did this, before there was any guarantee of an interest in home mini-sats, I think they've done a pretty good job. I'd rather pay the nominal cost for another LNB and a 3x8 multiswitch and have 8 high quality digital signals instead of being stuck with fewer channels at a lower bitrate.
As for TiVo being evil ... good luck convincing me of that. Like any service provider, they charge a monthly fee. That may seem evil, but considering the drastic impact they've had on my television experience, I'm more than willing to pay them for thier service. They earn that $10/month.
Anyway, hope that somewhat clears things up. No time to proofread this as I'm out the door, but I'll be back in a few days. We may just have to agree to disagree, but I don't find anything unreasonable with the way home mini-sat is setup. Merry Christmas!
das
DirecTV has a few satellites up in the sky, not sure how many. I think there are three at 101 and a few more at 110 and 119 west long. Anyway, that's not really important. What is important is that these sats have ~32 transponders that transmit the channels down to earth. Each transponder transmits a certain set of channels. They use insanely high frequencies ... many gigahertz ... don't remember. Anyway, each transponder transmits the channels at that frequency, and to eliminate interference with so much focused data so close together, each transponder is alternately polarized. The evens are righthand circular (or left) polarized, and the odds are lefthand circular (or right) polarized.
The LNB does two things. First it amps the signal, as it comes through considerably weak (obviously), and secondly, it down-converts it to frequencies that an RG-6 cable can handle. The LNB can't handle both polarizations at one time, so when you change the channel, the LNB is told what polarization to use (RHCP or LHCP), and it gets the signal for you. In theory, you COULD use your LNB to get half the channels and split that signal to multiple TVs, but you'd probably want to buy an amplifier, and you'd lose your second channel the second you switched to an alternate polarization. This would be insane. That's why the dual LNB exists.
You can use the dual LNB in two ways. First, it can just be simply 2 LNBs, one for each receiver, and when you request a channel, it uses the right polarization. Or you can use it the way most people do, and lock one LNB to even transponders (RHCP) and the other to odd transponders (LHCP). After the data has been down-converted, the signals can be run through a multiswitch (similar in principle an RF splitter). The signals are activated by different voltages, 13/14 and 18 I think. That's what's on my multiswitch anyway. It takes the RHCP through the +13V and the LHCP through the +18V. The multiswitch then amps the signal and splits it as many ways as necessary.
If you want to get as many channels as they're sending through the sky on a small and affordable dish at a high bitrate, then there's really no way around all of this. And like I said before, it's not a big deal. Even before they were giving this stuff away, the cost of a second LNB and a multiswitch wasn't much more than that of a decent RF splitter, and there's no quality loss. I don't see the problem with this setup, and I certainly don't find it evil. Evil is what AT&T does. Removing channels from their basic package and raising the rates to bully customers into "upgrading" to their digital service ... that's evil. Leaving Comcast subscribers without service and rerouting all CSR traffic to /dev/null ... that's evil.
DirecTV is a business, and they're trying to make a profit like anyone else, but they've done nothing that I see as unfair or unreasonable. I have a degree in Electrical Engineering from Georgia Tech, and I'm not sure how I'd go about designing a better system. They're trying to send an assload of data, and alternating polarizations helps them cram more data into a smaller frequency block. And in any case, hindsight's 20/20. Considering how long ago they did this, before there was any guarantee of an interest in home mini-sats, I think they've done a pretty good job. I'd rather pay the nominal cost for another LNB and a 3x8 multiswitch and have 8 high quality digital signals instead of being stuck with fewer channels at a lower bitrate.
As for TiVo being evil ... good luck convincing me of that. Like any service provider, they charge a monthly fee. That may seem evil, but considering the drastic impact they've had on my television experience, I'm more than willing to pay them for thier service. They earn that $10/month.
Anyway, hope that somewhat clears things up. No time to proofread this as I'm out the door, but I'll be back in a few days. We may just have to agree to disagree, but I don't find anything unreasonable with the way home mini-sat is setup. Merry Christmas!
das
12-27-01 | 09:54 AM
#28
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das, thanks for the primer on satellite TV. My electronics degree has gone unused for several years, and this wasn’t my field anyway.
It looks to me that your concept of evil and mine are not going to mesh. But to narrow it down to Tivo, any device that claims to think for a man is evil incarnate. The program hasn’t been written that can translate a handful of choices into a competent map of personal preferences. Anybody who’s made more than two trips to Amazon.com knows that. To allow a machine to start making those decisions, even if only running in the background, is leading to the slippery slope of eventually succumbing to those decisions and being enslaved by them. My God, man, have you never read or watched science fiction?!?
Am I serious? Of course not. Well, maybe.
One thing I can’t agree with is the concept (real or imagined) of allowing yet another avenue of my private information to be used and sold without my knowledge and consent. That, my friend, is evil.
On a less philosophical note, all five of the ST franchises are available in the LA market. And now B5 is moving. And there’s Buffy. And where the hell did X-Files go? Right now it’s not practical to record them all. A DVR would make this a simple matter, and would give me several hours more time to be sitting around watching TV.
Problem is, I’m not sure there’s a down side to that.
It looks to me that your concept of evil and mine are not going to mesh. But to narrow it down to Tivo, any device that claims to think for a man is evil incarnate. The program hasn’t been written that can translate a handful of choices into a competent map of personal preferences. Anybody who’s made more than two trips to Amazon.com knows that. To allow a machine to start making those decisions, even if only running in the background, is leading to the slippery slope of eventually succumbing to those decisions and being enslaved by them. My God, man, have you never read or watched science fiction?!?
Am I serious? Of course not. Well, maybe.
One thing I can’t agree with is the concept (real or imagined) of allowing yet another avenue of my private information to be used and sold without my knowledge and consent. That, my friend, is evil.
On a less philosophical note, all five of the ST franchises are available in the LA market. And now B5 is moving. And there’s Buffy. And where the hell did X-Files go? Right now it’s not practical to record them all. A DVR would make this a simple matter, and would give me several hours more time to be sitting around watching TV.
Problem is, I’m not sure there’s a down side to that.
12-27-01 | 01:22 PM
#29
Perhaps TiVo's mission is ... To Serve Man. (rimshot)
And I agree completely that the TiVo Suggestions thing is pretty weak, but to be fair, it actually works pretty well. If you're a hapless TV drifter like the millions of people that keep ER and Friends atop the ratings, I can see how something like that would be a decent feature.
I, of course, used it out of curiosity until I figured out how to turn it off. As for knowing what I'm watching ... in principle, I'm not too thrilled about it, but in this case, it doesn't really matter to me as I want to show support to the shows I watch. But I do see your point. I wasn't sure why you found it evil, but those are valid reasons. Considering its response to my manual programming, I disagree, however. But like you said, on a less philosophical note, it's hard to find fault with a system that dramatically increases our ability to watch TV.
I'll admit I was a TiVo skeptic until I had one in my home. Now I want 4.
das
And I agree completely that the TiVo Suggestions thing is pretty weak, but to be fair, it actually works pretty well. If you're a hapless TV drifter like the millions of people that keep ER and Friends atop the ratings, I can see how something like that would be a decent feature.
I, of course, used it out of curiosity until I figured out how to turn it off. As for knowing what I'm watching ... in principle, I'm not too thrilled about it, but in this case, it doesn't really matter to me as I want to show support to the shows I watch. But I do see your point. I wasn't sure why you found it evil, but those are valid reasons. Considering its response to my manual programming, I disagree, however. But like you said, on a less philosophical note, it's hard to find fault with a system that dramatically increases our ability to watch TV.
I'll admit I was a TiVo skeptic until I had one in my home. Now I want 4.
das
12-27-01 | 05:00 PM
#30
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Originally posted by das Monkey
I wasn't sure why you found it evil...
I wasn't sure why you found it evil...
Evil is what AT&T does. Removing channels from their basic package and raising the rates to bully customers into "upgrading" to their digital service ... that's evil.
However, your statement about AT&T is quite timely. As we speak (so to speak), I’m trying to get thru the busy signals to find out just why suddenly I’m being downgraded from what I thought was a premium package. I can get every non-pay channel offered, but the new additions (TOON and Court) are scrambled. My wife called and was told that to get them I have to upgrade to their digital package. [Gloat away, das.
] It sounds like I’m going to have to make a trip to Worst Buy sooner than I expected. 
As for your TZ reference, I think ST ”The Ultimate Computer” will give you an idea of where I’m coming from. Eventually, you WILL watch what Tivo says, or all life support functions will terminate.
I’m glad you mentioned the manual programming feature. Just because I might watch Night of the Living Dead once doesn’t mean that I want every episode of MS3K to be cluttering up my (soon to be acquired) hard disk.
12-27-01 | 05:35 PM
#31
Originally posted by Wizdar
If Dubya can label as “evil” anything that goes against HIS concept of truth, justice, and the American Way, I don’t see any reason not to follow along.
Keyword was "wasn't" ... two posts ago, it didn't make sense, but your following post cleared it up. That's why I said "I see your point." And let's not compare suggesting some TV shows for you to watch with killing innocent people. This isn't the Otter Farm.
Granted. And if/when DirecTV does something similar to you, young Obi-Wan, then you’ll understand.
Well, I could be paranoid of everything, but since DirecTV has been nothing but nice to me, stuck to all their promises, and improved the quality of my television viewing experience, I won't speak ill of them until they actually do something to deserve it. Between the choice of using a service that has sh|t upon and continues to sh|t upon its customers versus a service that may do something in the future ... call me crazy, but I'll take my chances with the latter.
[Gloat away, das.]
No need to gloat. You're not the first, and you certainly won't be the last to experience the evil that is AT&T.
As for your TZ reference, I think ST ”The Ultimate Computer” will give you an idea of where I’m coming from. Eventually, you WILL watch what Tivo says, or all life support functions will terminate.
I’m glad you mentioned the manual programming feature. Just because I might watch Night of the Living Dead once doesn’t mean that I want every episode of MS3K to be cluttering up my (soon to be acquired) hard disk.
Humor aside, the user completely controls the TiVo. It's 100% customizable. I can tell it to suggest programs. I can tell it to record programs by name, or by time. I can tell it how early to start before the show, how many episodes of the show to record, how long to keep them on the disk, whether to record just first-run eps or with repeats, which shows have more priority over others, whether I want to record the show on one channel, or all channels on which it airs. I can tell it to record all Buffy eps on FX except the 7pm one on Thursday and start recording the 6pm Wednesday show 5 mins early. I can do all of this weeks in advance. Never does my TiVo do ANYTHING I haven't explicity told it to do, except dialing in every evening to get the updated list of when shows are airing in the next 2 weeks ... and I can turn that off. TiVo is my bitch, not the other way around.
das
If Dubya can label as “evil” anything that goes against HIS concept of truth, justice, and the American Way, I don’t see any reason not to follow along.
Keyword was "wasn't" ... two posts ago, it didn't make sense, but your following post cleared it up. That's why I said "I see your point." And let's not compare suggesting some TV shows for you to watch with killing innocent people. This isn't the Otter Farm.
Granted. And if/when DirecTV does something similar to you, young Obi-Wan, then you’ll understand.
Well, I could be paranoid of everything, but since DirecTV has been nothing but nice to me, stuck to all their promises, and improved the quality of my television viewing experience, I won't speak ill of them until they actually do something to deserve it. Between the choice of using a service that has sh|t upon and continues to sh|t upon its customers versus a service that may do something in the future ... call me crazy, but I'll take my chances with the latter.
[Gloat away, das.
]No need to gloat. You're not the first, and you certainly won't be the last to experience the evil that is AT&T.
As for your TZ reference, I think ST ”The Ultimate Computer” will give you an idea of where I’m coming from. Eventually, you WILL watch what Tivo says, or all life support functions will terminate.
I’m glad you mentioned the manual programming feature. Just because I might watch Night of the Living Dead once doesn’t mean that I want every episode of MS3K to be cluttering up my (soon to be acquired) hard disk.
Humor aside, the user completely controls the TiVo. It's 100% customizable. I can tell it to suggest programs. I can tell it to record programs by name, or by time. I can tell it how early to start before the show, how many episodes of the show to record, how long to keep them on the disk, whether to record just first-run eps or with repeats, which shows have more priority over others, whether I want to record the show on one channel, or all channels on which it airs. I can tell it to record all Buffy eps on FX except the 7pm one on Thursday and start recording the 6pm Wednesday show 5 mins early. I can do all of this weeks in advance. Never does my TiVo do ANYTHING I haven't explicity told it to do, except dialing in every evening to get the updated list of when shows are airing in the next 2 weeks ... and I can turn that off. TiVo is my bitch, not the other way around.
das
12-27-01 | 07:49 PM
#32
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Originally posted by das Monkey
And let's not compare suggesting some TV shows for you to watch with killing innocent people. This isn't the Otter Farm.
And let's not compare suggesting some TV shows for you to watch with killing innocent people. This isn't the Otter Farm.
My use of the word has always been tongue-in-cheek, as have many of my comments. Life is too short to take anything that seriously.
Or is das feeling cranky once again?
[b]
12-27-01 | 08:24 PM
#33
I'm not cranky.
Wizdar spake:
Make no mistake about it, das, they are ALL evil!
Now, let’s talk about the spawn of the Devil that is Tivo…
das Monkey replied:
As for TiVo being evil ... good luck convincing me of that. Like any service provider, they charge a monthly fee. That may seem evil, but considering the drastic impact they've had on my television experience, I'm more than willing to pay them for thier service. They earn that $10/month.
Wizdar clarified:
It looks to me that your concept of evil and mine are not going to mesh. But to narrow it down to Tivo, any device that claims to think for a man is evil incarnate.
das Monkey acknowledged:
As for knowing what I'm watching ... in principle, I'm not too thrilled about it, but in this case, it doesn't really matter to me as I want to show support to the shows I watch. But I do see your point. I wasn't sure why you found it evil, but those are valid reasons.
Wizdar spake again:
If Dubya can label as “evil” anything that goes against HIS concept of truth, justice, and the American Way, I don’t see any reason not to follow along.
das Monkey was confused:
Keyword was "wasn't" ... two posts ago, it didn't make sense, but your following post cleared it up. That's why I said "I see your point." And let's not compare suggesting some TV shows for you to watch with killing innocent people. This isn't the Otter Farm.
The progression of this conversation made perfect sense to me. You said it was evil. I said why it wasn't. You pointed out your reasons you thought it was evil. I noted that I misunderstood your reasons in the previous post, but it makes much more sense. You didn't realize I had gotten the point and made another statement. I clarified again that I had misunderstood why you thought it was evil (originally because of its service fee), but now I understand (suggesting shows, monitoring viewing preferences).
But you made an obviously political statement in suggesting why you can refer to things as being evil. Do I agree? It's irrelevant. All I was saying is that if you want to turn the discussion to our government or our President's policies or use of the word "evil-doers" in reference to those who kill innocent people, that's a discussion for the Otter Farm, not this thread.
My use of the term "evil" is also jokingly. AT&T isn't truly evil ... they just suck a$$ in so many ways, that it's easier to call them evil. TiVo on the other hand has been nothing but good to me, so I could hardly say anything negative about them, let alone call them "evil", but if you want to, I don't care. I'll try to persuade you to better evaluate their service, since I didn't think your criticism was well-informed, but if after re-evaluating them, you think they're evil, I don't care.
But none of that has any bearing on the way our President is approaching current political problems, and my statement that comparing TiVo's suggestions of TV shows (what you first called evil) to killing innocent people (what Dubya calls evil) is in direct response to you doing just that in your post. Your statement is highly political (anything that goes against HIS concept), and I thought a discussion of that nature was completely and totally irrelevant to our already way to damn_long discussion of TiVo, DirecTV, and why the Earth is banana-shaped.
If that confuses you, I'm sorry. Feel free to call me chicken sh|t again if you like. I assume you still hold that opinion of me as you never made effort to state otherwise. "Make no mistake about it," though -- I'm not cranky or upset ... in fact, I wonder why I'm still typing. The progression of the conversation made, and upon review, still makes sense to me.
Regardless, I'm sure we've hijacked this thread enough. I think both DirecTV and TiVo are well designed in terms of customer satisfaction and as such am very happy with both their services. You somewhat disagree. Let's either return to that topic or drop it all together.
das
Wizdar spake:
Make no mistake about it, das, they are ALL evil!
Now, let’s talk about the spawn of the Devil that is Tivo…
das Monkey replied:
As for TiVo being evil ... good luck convincing me of that. Like any service provider, they charge a monthly fee. That may seem evil, but considering the drastic impact they've had on my television experience, I'm more than willing to pay them for thier service. They earn that $10/month.
Wizdar clarified:
It looks to me that your concept of evil and mine are not going to mesh. But to narrow it down to Tivo, any device that claims to think for a man is evil incarnate.
das Monkey acknowledged:
As for knowing what I'm watching ... in principle, I'm not too thrilled about it, but in this case, it doesn't really matter to me as I want to show support to the shows I watch. But I do see your point. I wasn't sure why you found it evil, but those are valid reasons.
Wizdar spake again:
If Dubya can label as “evil” anything that goes against HIS concept of truth, justice, and the American Way, I don’t see any reason not to follow along.
das Monkey was confused:
Keyword was "wasn't" ... two posts ago, it didn't make sense, but your following post cleared it up. That's why I said "I see your point." And let's not compare suggesting some TV shows for you to watch with killing innocent people. This isn't the Otter Farm.
The progression of this conversation made perfect sense to me. You said it was evil. I said why it wasn't. You pointed out your reasons you thought it was evil. I noted that I misunderstood your reasons in the previous post, but it makes much more sense. You didn't realize I had gotten the point and made another statement. I clarified again that I had misunderstood why you thought it was evil (originally because of its service fee), but now I understand (suggesting shows, monitoring viewing preferences).
But you made an obviously political statement in suggesting why you can refer to things as being evil. Do I agree? It's irrelevant. All I was saying is that if you want to turn the discussion to our government or our President's policies or use of the word "evil-doers" in reference to those who kill innocent people, that's a discussion for the Otter Farm, not this thread.
My use of the term "evil" is also jokingly. AT&T isn't truly evil ... they just suck a$$ in so many ways, that it's easier to call them evil. TiVo on the other hand has been nothing but good to me, so I could hardly say anything negative about them, let alone call them "evil", but if you want to, I don't care. I'll try to persuade you to better evaluate their service, since I didn't think your criticism was well-informed, but if after re-evaluating them, you think they're evil, I don't care.
But none of that has any bearing on the way our President is approaching current political problems, and my statement that comparing TiVo's suggestions of TV shows (what you first called evil) to killing innocent people (what Dubya calls evil) is in direct response to you doing just that in your post. Your statement is highly political (anything that goes against HIS concept), and I thought a discussion of that nature was completely and totally irrelevant to our already way to damn_long discussion of TiVo, DirecTV, and why the Earth is banana-shaped.
If that confuses you, I'm sorry. Feel free to call me chicken sh|t again if you like. I assume you still hold that opinion of me as you never made effort to state otherwise. "Make no mistake about it," though -- I'm not cranky or upset ... in fact, I wonder why I'm still typing. The progression of the conversation made, and upon review, still makes sense to me.
Regardless, I'm sure we've hijacked this thread enough. I think both DirecTV and TiVo are well designed in terms of customer satisfaction and as such am very happy with both their services. You somewhat disagree. Let's either return to that topic or drop it all together.
das
Last edited by das Monkey; 12-27-01 at 08:29 PM.
12-28-01 | 09:13 AM
#34
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From: Anchorage, Alaska
I have been looking into getting a satellite system for awhile now, and now that I have money from Christmas I want to get one. I just have one stupid question: can I hook up the satellite to my vcr so I can record things while I am out? I am totally clueless when it comes to the satellite systems, so if any of you have some advice, it will be greatly appreciated!!
(If it makes any difference, I am leaning towards the Directv system.)
(If it makes any difference, I am leaning towards the Directv system.)
12-28-01 | 01:11 PM
#35
Originally posted by RaraFemina
I have been looking into getting a satellite system for awhile now, and now that I have money from Christmas I want to get one. I just have one stupid question: can I hook up the satellite to my vcr so I can record things while I am out? I am totally clueless when it comes to the satellite systems, so if any of you have some advice, it will be greatly appreciated!!
(If it makes any difference, I am leaning towards the Directv system.)
I have been looking into getting a satellite system for awhile now, and now that I have money from Christmas I want to get one. I just have one stupid question: can I hook up the satellite to my vcr so I can record things while I am out? I am totally clueless when it comes to the satellite systems, so if any of you have some advice, it will be greatly appreciated!!
(If it makes any difference, I am leaning towards the Directv system.)
In long .... the thing to remember with sat, and you can see some discussion above, is you have to explicitly "connect" each multiple channel you want to be able to watch. You can't simply buy an RF splitter at Radio Shack and watch two shows at once. If you're interested in recording one show while watching another, we can discuss that, but it sounds like you just want to record one channel while you're away.
Here's how it works. You have a dish that gets the signal. From the dish, it goes across RG-6 (essentially coax) cable to a receiver. Depending on the receiver, you can do many things from this point. On mine, I have an optical out, an S-video, a coax out, and two A/V outs (you know, the red/white/yellow cables). In theory, I could run the picture to multiple TVs and the audio all over the place. It would all be one channel, but I could send it to a TV and a VCR at the same time.
If you only have one A/V output on your receiver (unlikely), you can use your VCR as a passthrough. Run the cable from the receiver to the VCR and then from the VCR to the TV. Or you could buy a cheap A/V switch for like $5 that switched the signal from the receiver to both a TV and VCR and you press the button to change who gets the picture at a time.
What's important to remember is that you can only get ONE channel output from ONE receiver. That output can go to many places (multiple TVs, or VCRs or whatever). And with the DirecTiVo device, you can record two channels at once, but you can only send one of those channels out of the receiver at a time. So you can't have two VCRs recording two shows at the same time with just the DirecTiVo receiver. BUT, you can record one show on the VCR and the other on the DirecTiVo, and then transfer the second program from the DirecTiVo to the VCR later.
Hopefully all that answers your question. If not, just ask.
das
12-28-01 | 01:45 PM
#36
DVD Talk Special Edition
Originally posted by RaraFemina
I have been looking into getting a satellite system for awhile now, and now that I have money from Christmas I want to get one. I just have one stupid question: can I hook up the satellite to my vcr so I can record things while I am out? I am totally clueless when it comes to the satellite systems, so if any of you have some advice, it will be greatly appreciated!!
(If it makes any difference, I am leaning towards the Directv system.)
I have been looking into getting a satellite system for awhile now, and now that I have money from Christmas I want to get one. I just have one stupid question: can I hook up the satellite to my vcr so I can record things while I am out? I am totally clueless when it comes to the satellite systems, so if any of you have some advice, it will be greatly appreciated!!
(If it makes any difference, I am leaning towards the Directv system.)
Each receiver (or IRD) can only tune in one channel at a time, so you can't watch one channel while recording another. That would require a two-tuner IRD, along with two cables from the switch. However, the newer receivers can do a IR Blast, and actually control the VCR. However, most IRDs only put out a mono audio signal through the coax. You will probably have to hook up the a/v cables to the VCR in order to get stereo audio.
12-28-01 | 03:12 PM
#37
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Originally posted by das Monkey
I assume you still hold that opinion of me as you never made effort to state otherwise.
I assume you still hold that opinion of me as you never made effort to state otherwise.
Had I known I was involved in a personal confrontation rather than a friendly exchange I would have stopped several posts ago. It’s becoming clear now that your responses are tainted by your “assumption” of an opinion I don’t happen to hold.
Maybe I’m in the minority, but I don’t think there’s enough information available to develop the kind of opinion you’ve accused me of regarding any member here.
[Mods note, I'm done here and am moving on. Apologies for the hijack.]
12-28-01 | 03:38 PM
#38
Originally posted by Wizdar
There is nothing in my subsequent posts to support that. In fact, I had quite forgotten about the incident and moved on.
Had I known I was involved in a personal confrontation rather than a friendly exchange I would have stopped several posts ago. It’s becoming clear now that your responses are tainted by your “assumption” of an opinion I don’t happen to hold.
Maybe I’m in the minority, but I don’t think there’s enough information available to develop the kind of opinion you’ve accused me of regarding any member here.
I never intended personal confrontation. My intent in making this most recent statement is that I'll never know when you're joking or not because of previous wounds. You said something pretty mean to me and simply disappeared when I asked you about it. You say you've "forgotten about [it] and moved on." How was I supposed to know this? I'm all for joking around, but you broke that bond with those prior comments, and you never made effort to repair it. So I don't know anymore when to take you at face value, when you're joking, or when you're mad at me again. I don't want a confrontation. I just needed you to understand that from my point-of-view, I have difficulty figuring out where you're coming from in your posts that are directed at me. When you took my large on-topic post and replied to a minute off-topic detail, I didn't know if you were joking or if you were mad at me again. I'm not trying to argue with you here ... I'm trying to be honest and upfront with the way I've interpreted your posts. If you want to use that as a chance to be pissed off at me, ok. We'll end it there. If you want to use it as a chance to mend whatever's gone wrong here, I'm all for that too. Just understand that I don't know which you want, and as such have a difficult time deriving your meaning in the posts you direct toward me. You should read the tone of this post as clam and honest. I really don't know which you want, so pick one, and we'll go from there.
das
There is nothing in my subsequent posts to support that. In fact, I had quite forgotten about the incident and moved on.
Had I known I was involved in a personal confrontation rather than a friendly exchange I would have stopped several posts ago. It’s becoming clear now that your responses are tainted by your “assumption” of an opinion I don’t happen to hold.
Maybe I’m in the minority, but I don’t think there’s enough information available to develop the kind of opinion you’ve accused me of regarding any member here.
I never intended personal confrontation. My intent in making this most recent statement is that I'll never know when you're joking or not because of previous wounds. You said something pretty mean to me and simply disappeared when I asked you about it. You say you've "forgotten about [it] and moved on." How was I supposed to know this? I'm all for joking around, but you broke that bond with those prior comments, and you never made effort to repair it. So I don't know anymore when to take you at face value, when you're joking, or when you're mad at me again. I don't want a confrontation. I just needed you to understand that from my point-of-view, I have difficulty figuring out where you're coming from in your posts that are directed at me. When you took my large on-topic post and replied to a minute off-topic detail, I didn't know if you were joking or if you were mad at me again. I'm not trying to argue with you here ... I'm trying to be honest and upfront with the way I've interpreted your posts. If you want to use that as a chance to be pissed off at me, ok. We'll end it there. If you want to use it as a chance to mend whatever's gone wrong here, I'm all for that too. Just understand that I don't know which you want, and as such have a difficult time deriving your meaning in the posts you direct toward me. You should read the tone of this post as clam and honest. I really don't know which you want, so pick one, and we'll go from there.
das
12-28-01 | 04:07 PM
#39
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From: Anchorage, Alaska
I am sorry if I started the argument all over again.
Das:
Thanks for the info. I had read over the previous posts about the whole recording one thing and taping another. Like I said, I am just clueless when it comes to the different systems.
Mark:
I will check out CC and see if I can find a DirecTivo unit still at the closeout price, thanks for the heads up!!
Das:
Thanks for the info. I had read over the previous posts about the whole recording one thing and taping another. Like I said, I am just clueless when it comes to the different systems.
Mark:
I will check out CC and see if I can find a DirecTivo unit still at the closeout price, thanks for the heads up!!
12-28-01 | 04:13 PM
#40
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Originally posted by RaraFemina
I have been looking into getting a satellite system for awhile now, and now that I have money from Christmas I want to get one. I just have one stupid question: can I hook up the satellite to my vcr so I can record things while I am out? I am totally clueless when it comes to the satellite systems, so if any of you have some advice, it will be greatly appreciated!!
(If it makes any difference, I am leaning towards the Directv system.)
I have been looking into getting a satellite system for awhile now, and now that I have money from Christmas I want to get one. I just have one stupid question: can I hook up the satellite to my vcr so I can record things while I am out? I am totally clueless when it comes to the satellite systems, so if any of you have some advice, it will be greatly appreciated!!
(If it makes any difference, I am leaning towards the Directv system.)
This was vital to me when I got my system, because I record shows on multiple channels throughout the day. Yet another reason why digital cable sucks - not only can you not watch one thing and record another, but you also cannot switch stations unless a person is there to do it manually - thus, no recording for me. I promptly switched to a satellite system.
So while you still cannot watch one thing and record another (which you CAN do with tivo) you can record whatever you want while you're gone with the dish and a vcr. Now when I chose which system, directtv did not have wb or upn, so they weren't an option for me - and pvrs were nonexistent. Thus my choice was easy. Yours is tougher, because as I understand it the integrated tivo/directtv is awesome - and I do wish I could watch one thing and record another, but have no money to buy the tivo system at this time. since I get 3 different wb feeds and 2 different "big 4" network feeds, I actually don't have more than two things to record at a time, which means I'm covered with my setup, but I'd still like the flexibility.
If I were deciding which system to get now, I'd get one with an integrated pvr as well as one that had all the channels that I want. The second half of that is tough, because when you have 4 shows you watch at the same time in your time zone, having an east coast feed to stagger them is essential. As far as I know, DirectTV only gives you one feed, and it's for the time zone you are in, so that still wouldn't work for me.
Good luck, have fun, and trust me - satellites are the best way to go!
12-28-01 | 04:17 PM
#41
Originally posted by RaraFemina
I am sorry if I started the argument all over again.
Das:
Thanks for the info. I had read over the previous posts about the whole recording one thing and taping another. Like I said, I am just clueless when it comes to the different systems.
Mark:
I will check out CC and see if I can find a DirecTivo unit still at the closeout price, thanks for the heads up!!
You did nothing wrong. I just hope you got all your questions answered. Don't let our side conversation disuade you from getting the information you need. And everyone's clueless when they first start out, so don't worry about that. You'll get the hang of it sooner or later. Feel free to keep asking questions here, but if you need more info, they have lots of good stuff at the AVS Forum. I don't know if it's OK to post the URL, but I'm sure you can figure it out.
das
I am sorry if I started the argument all over again.
Das:
Thanks for the info. I had read over the previous posts about the whole recording one thing and taping another. Like I said, I am just clueless when it comes to the different systems.
Mark:
I will check out CC and see if I can find a DirecTivo unit still at the closeout price, thanks for the heads up!!
You did nothing wrong. I just hope you got all your questions answered. Don't let our side conversation disuade you from getting the information you need. And everyone's clueless when they first start out, so don't worry about that. You'll get the hang of it sooner or later. Feel free to keep asking questions here, but if you need more info, they have lots of good stuff at the AVS Forum. I don't know if it's OK to post the URL, but I'm sure you can figure it out. das
