das Monkey

Yes

And here are some lyrics for you:

Goodbye To You

Of all the things I've believed in
I just want to get it over with
Tears form behind my eyes
But I do not cry
Counting the days that pass me by

I've been searching deep down in my soul
Words that I'm hearing are starting to get old
It feels like I'm starting all over again
The last three years were just pretend
And I said,

Goodbye to you
Goodbye to everything I thought I knew
You were the one I loved
The one thing that I tried to hold on to

I still get lost in your eyes
And it seems that I can't live a day without you
Closing my eyes and you chase my thoughts away
To a place where I am blinded by the light
But it's not right

Goodbye to you
Goodbye to everything I thought I knew
You were the one I loved
The one thing that I tried to hold on to

And it hurts to want everything and nothing at the same time
I want what's yours and I want what's mine
I want you
But I'm not giving in this time

Goodbye to you
Goodbye to everything I thought I knew
You were the one I loved
The one thing that I tried to hold on to
The one thing that I tried to hold on to

And when the stars fall
I will lie awake
You're my shooting star

das

For the record, I really enjoyed this song (and the performer ... if she weren't so young ... shut up, das)

MrN

Pretty much the whole season was 'dark' until the musical, so I think another comedy episode right away felt like a cheat to most people.

I didn't mind it - this is classic Buffy, complete with the song from the band-of-the-week. I loved the comedy and the episode progressed the story. Giles finally left - since we already had a lengthy goodbye to him earlier in the season, I don't think another one was warranted. And because Buffy didn't say goodbye to Giles, she will have that abandonment feeling which seems to be pushing her towards Spike.

I did think the Willow/Tara thing was rushed - here she was making promises about using magic and next time you see her, she's changing clothes and casting the same spells. I don't blame Tara one bit (like Dawn did). But, even though Tara's leaving kept the parallel of the story going, it probably would have felt more natural if she left in the next episode or two.

So, who watched the promo?

palebluedot

Thanks buddy...I thoght that was her...she has potential I think. Hey did you get my email?

renaldow

I don't think Willow is going to go down the path of darkness in the evil sense. From this last episode it seems that she is addicted to her magical powers. So, in that sense, the Willow/Tara thing wasn't all that rushed, IMHO. Anyone who's ever known or lived with an addict can recognize that as exactly what happens, I think.

From the promo next week it looks just like she's going on a bender.

das Monkey

I did, but I was halfway out the door to a +Live+ concert and haven't been home since to respond. I didn't even get a chance to read the whole thing. I'll respond after work; tho I fear you'll be disappointed.

das

palebluedot

That's cool...it was more of a "thanks" email anyway.

iawiaw

I was glad in the beginning of the show, Buffy totally disced Spike and all's back to norm in Sunnydale .... and then the freaking ending smooch fest! They just don't look good together! However, I do like the bit about "Randy" thinking he's a righteous and noble vampire with a soul - Angel! The comedy was great but the rest - I can do without.

Man, can't Buff get any decent lover since Angel? Rily - pancy, Spike - dork, come on Angelous, where are you?!

das Monkey

That's the point ... but Spike's not a dork. He's just a tad (read REALLY) obsessive.

das

MrN

The popular notion of immortality these days is that its bloody boring. Thats why Darla had Angel and Spike had Drusilla. But since Dru left Spike's been searching for a companion. He is barking up the wrong tree however, obsessing over Buffy, noble as she may be. The only way out of this mess is:

a)Buffy becomes a vampire - not gonna happen.
b)Spike dies - probably not gonna happen, but you never know
c)Spike finds/makes another vampire to be his companion. The question in this scenario is if Spike and his companion would stay on the show.

Slumbering Fist

Wow, take a poop on Buffy guys.

You know, I was thinking this weekend when I watched the musical rerun, just how in the Hell were they going to deal with so many points brought up?, and I got my answer last night. They dealt with it in the best way possible, a largely humorous episode, balanced with a gimmack that weighed in with good dramatic effect on all the characters. Was it solid gold?- No, but for me it wasnt the crud most reactions here seem to say.

As far as Giles bland departure, just hopping on a plane, I've noticed that there arent a whole lot of hugs and affectionate gestures on Buffy as it is (even in warmer situations). Its something that has always sort of irked me; there have been several instances where the characters are being rather standoffish, not offering warmth, discussion, or a solemn gesture, where most people would. With so much struggling with dark elements, its often just not a very touchy-feely show really, and Giles abrupt leaving probably had them all too shell shocked anyway.

Were some of the jokes bad (loan shark), yeah, but there were more good laughs than bad. Spike/Randy making fun of Giles being British, then realising he was British too, that alone made up for any of the duds.

I liked it fine. Still the best show on tv, so I aint gonna take a poop on it for not being absolute perfection.

das Monkey

Exagerate much? I don't think anyone's "pooping" on the show. Someone said it was "confused", someone said it was "rushed", and I said it was funny and entertaining but would have liked to see more depth into the current situations and push the silliness back a few episodes. You can climb down from your horse whenever you're ready. Honest criticism of the things we didn't like about this episode is hardly a condemnation of the episode or the show itself. I'll go out on that proverbial limb and say it's OK to not love every single episode. I actually would have loved this episode had they either separated it from the current situations or addressed them in a little more depth. Still, I was thoroughly entertained and laughed heartily through most of the episode. And I've heard the same in the posts in this thread. A few people had a few problems with the episode ... I think that's allowed.

das

renaldow

I don't see how it could've been seperated from the 'current situations' in any way, and am glad it wasn't.

I think something many people are not getting yet is that the 'big bad' for this season is themselves. Not a Master, Mayor, Adam, Glory, etc... but their own personal problems and group dynamics.

Instead of keeping with the formulaic bad guy they have had going since season 1, this is the season where the characters have to deal with their problems, and it's been set up so that they are seriously screwed up right now. While the 3 superdorks are standing in as a comic relief baddy, the real confrontation this season is the scoobs dealing with their own personal demons and issues.

I think this will mean more episodes like last nights', where we see humor and oddity tempered with the drama of their problems.

das Monkey

That's my point. There was very little of this. I wanted to see them work through or struggle with these issues, not be taken to memory-loss land for 95% of the episode and then bookend it with a few moments of plot. Last week ends with "understand, we'll go hand in hand, but we'll walk alone in fear." There wasn't much of this. I was in the frame of mind for things to get really difficult for them, not to simply gloss over it with a major B story. I really liked watching them work through their problems in 'Dead Man's Party' when Buffy returns to Sunnydale. Or all the disagreement over how to handle the Angel situation both times. This was good stuff. I wanted more of that, and that's what I mean by feeling "cheated".

This isn't a case of "not getting it" ... it's a case of "not liking it." There's a difference. I completely "get" what they were trying to do with this episode ... I just didn't want it to go down like that.

das

Slumbering Fist

Yeah, yeah,yeah. I stand behind my comment. Compared to the usual 'Buffy Love', there is more complaining about this episodes structure and tone than usual. Therefore more pooping.

Maybe all it takes to make me happy is some character development and a funny Ray Harryhausen reference.

das Monkey

That's cool. We all like different things. Just so long as it's understood that there's a difference between pooping on a show and criticizing certain aspects of it. Nothing's perfect. If I say, "Smallville is insanely derivative and repetitive and no longer holds interest for me," I'm pooping on the show. If I say, "I wish they had focused more on these specific aspects of last night's 'Buffy'," that's just a preference. I've touted 'Buffy' as the best show on television since season 1 (I don't feel it's #1 right now, but definitely in the top 3), so it'll take more than an episode that doesn't fulfill me 100% to make me poop on this show. This is a No Poop Zone.

das

renaldow

I didn't mean to infer anything about you personally, das. I meant viewers in general. I think that's why there has been a lot of dislike for the season so far.

I agree that they have seemed to gloss over some things so far, but I think it's all just building up. I'm pleased that there hasn't been a lot of talking through issues going on. If I want that, I'll watch Touched By an Angel.

If you look at it from the Big Bad angle, the show is progressing as it should be. The seasons generally begin with the introduction of the evilness, followed by a few B plotline driven episodes where we get to see the evilness slowly progressing. Around mid-season the action starts to escallate and the B plotlines start to fall off. I think this is what's happening now.

Wizdar

And you don't find that significant? I get the feeling that anything Joss does is just okey dokey with a lot of folks around here. The fact that these same folks are “pooping” on Buffy certainly must mean something’s amiss.

I must have missed the Harryhausen reference.

Also missed the “No Poop Zone” sign.

das Monkey

Originally posted by renaldow
I didn't mean to infer anything about you personally, das. I meant viewers in general. I think that's why there has been a lot of dislike for the season so far.

Oh, I didn't take it that way. Just wanted to be clear. And I love the season so far. I didn't like the premiere since they didn't address the consequences, but they hit that in the very next episode, so I was happy. And I liked this episode as well ... just not as much as others. Btw, not that it matters, but the listener "infers" ... the speaker "implies."

I agree that they have seemed to gloss over some things so far, but I think it's all just building up. I'm pleased that there hasn't been a lot of talking through issues going on. If I want that, I'll watch Touched By an Angel.

Haha ... different strokes, I guess. (or Diff'rent)

If you look at it from the Big Bad angle, the show is progressing as it should be. The seasons generally begin with the introduction of the evilness, followed by a few B plotline driven episodes where we get to see the evilness slowly progressing. Around mid-season the action starts to escallate and the B plotlines start to fall off. I think this is what's happening now.

Yeah ... like I said, I see what they're doing ... I just don't particularly agree with that approach. Nonetheless, my faith in Joss is unwavering, and 2 months from now I'll likely be talking about how this episode was perfect for the season as a whole.

das

das Monkey

No sign ... just a button that I wear. It applies to my personal space.

das

Slumbering Fist

Giles sword fighting the skeleton- Jason and the Argonauts.

MrN

I certainly don't think the gang is going to deal with the problems within one episode - it would make for a very talky drama and leave the entire season with no direction.

So, this episode did what it needed to do - it was entertaining and it did progress the story. Maybe not by much, but then everything can't be resolved with more than 2/3 of the season to go.

Wizdar

Damn. Didn't make that connection.

Thanks.

SmackDaddy

Anyone know if Amber Benson(Tara) is coming back or is she gone for good?

Apart from the dorky loanshark, I think this was a good episode.

Jlbkwrm

Man... I miss Giles already.

Structure-wise pretty much what I've come to expect from Rebecca Rand Kirshner written episodes (though, I liked the W/T fight in this one much more than the Tough Love one). Fairly slow first half, decently entertaining second half.

Didn't like the Giles sendoff one teeny tiny bit. I know they had to send him off somehow, but I wanted either more fanfare or a better plot-based reason. I think I'm mostly just bitter though--Giles has come so far from CreepyTweedyGuy.

Also, don't understand why Tara trusted Willow so much. Wouldn't you make it a point to keep a big note in your pocket or something? "Willow keeps erasing memories of your fights", or something to that effect, would seem pretty logical to me.

Now, for the good:

Dawn aside, the regression of the characters under the no-memory spell was just way too fun. Willow's Dopplegangland line makes a nice comeback. Anya, Giles, and "Randy" have a bizarre-but-amusing family dynamic going on.

Buffy just laying there when she gets her memory back was a nice touch--painful and sad, but definitely a good way to contrast RealBuffy with the Joan personality.

Dawn refusing to hug Tara is another one of those painful-but-good shots. The girl idolized the Willow and Tara relationship, and there seems to be a good chance she was closer to Tara than Willow (since Willow was already close to Buffy, and all). Or maybe I just liked that they managed to show someone outside of Willow cared about Tara at all.

Casting-based Spoiler:

Mark Holtz

Maybe the producers decided to skip the "big bad" enemy this year. Take a look at the past five seasons:

1. The Master
2. Spike, Drusilla, and, in the second Half, Angelis
3. The Mayor
4. Secret Government Project
5. Glory The God

How the heck are you going to top that? Just have some internal changes.