Angel 10/29/01
#2
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
The writers on this keep surprising me on every twist and turn.
Just when I thought 'Hey, they brought the Fred/Wesley thing out in the open', they went and pushed them the other way. But hopefully they'll get together sometime.
Loved the Cordelia/Lilah exchange and also the Cordelia/Angel wrap-up at the end.
I actually thought they would have much longer story for Bill, but I'm glad they got it out of the way for Darla in the next ep.
The only thing that struck me as odd was why Lilah didn't say anything about her 'thing' with Angel a couple of weeks back.
Well, if we know anything about this show, there will be repercussions and this one might have some to last a while.
Just when I thought 'Hey, they brought the Fred/Wesley thing out in the open', they went and pushed them the other way. But hopefully they'll get together sometime.
Loved the Cordelia/Lilah exchange and also the Cordelia/Angel wrap-up at the end.
I actually thought they would have much longer story for Bill, but I'm glad they got it out of the way for Darla in the next ep.
The only thing that struck me as odd was why Lilah didn't say anything about her 'thing' with Angel a couple of weeks back.
Well, if we know anything about this show, there will be repercussions and this one might have some to last a while.
#3
DVD Talk Legend
Wow I really loved this episode. The whole Fred Wesley scene was really creepy. That was one evil bad guy, but wow he died so easily. I thought they could have had plenty of storylines with the Congressman, but I guess they aren't going to go that route.
Spoiler:
#4
DVD Talk Hero
I too thoroughly enjoyed this episode. Unfortunately, this was one of those times where Charisma Carpenter's acting ability is shown to be pretty lacking. He dialogue was very powerfully written, but she just couldn't seem to deliver in the scenes with Lilah and Angel. Still, it was a great episode. I loved the take on 'The Shining' ... hotel ... woman ... madman with axe ... what can we do with this? Hmmm ....
I loved the line from Cordy to Lilah about thinking someone carrying the mantle of "vicious bitch" wouldn't stand for this.
das
I loved the line from Cordy to Lilah about thinking someone carrying the mantle of "vicious bitch" wouldn't stand for this.
das
#5
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Does anyone listen to Angel in Dolby Pro-Logic on their HT setup? I found the vocals to be too bassy/boomy on Angel. Is it just my center channel speaker, or does it sound this way to some of you as well?
#6
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great episode.
the cheerleading bit in the beginning cracked me up however, i can't help but feel that fred is becoming a grown up female version of macauley culkin in home alone.
but the scene where cordy and wesley are talking about love and how they might be destined to be alone seemed kind of depressing. it's very interesting how cordy's character has gone full circle like this.
the cheerleading bit in the beginning cracked me up however, i can't help but feel that fred is becoming a grown up female version of macauley culkin in home alone.
but the scene where cordy and wesley are talking about love and how they might be destined to be alone seemed kind of depressing. it's very interesting how cordy's character has gone full circle like this.
#7
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Considering I've been watching Cordy on the FX Buffy where she and Xander are making out all the time, yes, all this talk of love and being alone now does seem very strange, and I guess it's a long road to get from puppy love to where Cordy is now.
#8
Well, surprisingly I am actually pretty disappointed, and I’m an easy man to please, but I dont like the way Angel is steering its characters.
First of all, the Fred-Wesley thing was just too obvious a route for me, too likely a pair. Sure, they threw some kinks into it, but it just seems too easy, unlike, say the Spike-Buffy thing, which was weird at first but so well plotted it became logical. I just like the things less obvious, and Wesley-Fred doesn’t do anything for me. Taking the Fred-Angel route would have been more interesting, less easy.
Lilah, has now basically become Lindsay, which is lazy character development. I wouldn’t be surprised if she loses a limb sometime soon. Its just repetition, another Wolfram And Hart insider who plays bad most of the time but can sway towards having a conscience, being good. Whats next, will she leave, only to have the Asian lawyer step up to the forefront and begin to have some morals until he is usurped by a meaner lawyer, and then that lawyer grows a conscience, and so on, and so on?
As for Billy, it seems kind of stupid to put so much focus on him, only to off him so easily, so he may be back. And his Kennedy slant was topical way too many years ago, and just wasn’t very interesting.
As far as the actual episode, ehhh, I saw the Shining. It was better.
First of all, the Fred-Wesley thing was just too obvious a route for me, too likely a pair. Sure, they threw some kinks into it, but it just seems too easy, unlike, say the Spike-Buffy thing, which was weird at first but so well plotted it became logical. I just like the things less obvious, and Wesley-Fred doesn’t do anything for me. Taking the Fred-Angel route would have been more interesting, less easy.
Lilah, has now basically become Lindsay, which is lazy character development. I wouldn’t be surprised if she loses a limb sometime soon. Its just repetition, another Wolfram And Hart insider who plays bad most of the time but can sway towards having a conscience, being good. Whats next, will she leave, only to have the Asian lawyer step up to the forefront and begin to have some morals until he is usurped by a meaner lawyer, and then that lawyer grows a conscience, and so on, and so on?
As for Billy, it seems kind of stupid to put so much focus on him, only to off him so easily, so he may be back. And his Kennedy slant was topical way too many years ago, and just wasn’t very interesting.
As far as the actual episode, ehhh, I saw the Shining. It was better.
#9
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In a way, I agree with Slumbering Fist. It seems like they're making lots of huge jumps with the characters. First, Fred loves Angel. That lasts for about two episodes, then they drop it for Wesley loves Fred. One quick episode about Gunn, then he's back to normal. And he's absolutely right about Lilah becoming Lindsay, that's kind of lame. I hoped Cordy would kill Billy, as that would have been a harsh step and changed her profoundly, like in Buffy's season 5 finale when
Story-wise, it seems like this season will have the same problems as the previous two, where Wolfram and Hart will be this kind of menacing presence, but never really do anything besides pester Angel and the gang.
Finally, I was pretty disappointed when the Darla/Drusilla angle didn't go anywhere last season, but hopefully they won't make that mistake again this season.
I thought the episode was immensely entertaining, however, even if it didn't contribute to the overall scheme of things in a positive way.
Spoiler:
Finally, I was pretty disappointed when the Darla/Drusilla angle didn't go anywhere last season, but hopefully they won't make that mistake again this season.
I thought the episode was immensely entertaining, however, even if it didn't contribute to the overall scheme of things in a positive way.
#10
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Originally posted by das Monkey
Unfortunately, this was one of those times where Charisma Carpenter's acting ability is shown to be pretty lacking.
Unfortunately, this was one of those times where Charisma Carpenter's acting ability is shown to be pretty lacking.
The Shining bit was a little too much.
Why doesn’t Wesley live in the hotel? Why don’t they ALL live in the hotel? Can they afford separate housing and still maintain the hotel? I’m sure Dennis wouldn’t mind moving, since he would have so much extra room, don’t ya think?
#11
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
I agree that the Wesley/Fred thing is a little too obvious and rushed, but after this episode, I wouldn't be surprised if they never get together this season.
Also, I personally wouldn't want to live with the people I work with - 40+ hours a week is enough. Although it does appear that no one on 'Angel' seems to have a life outside of the hotel.
Also, I personally wouldn't want to live with the people I work with - 40+ hours a week is enough. Although it does appear that no one on 'Angel' seems to have a life outside of the hotel.
#12
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Check out this nice article on Angel from the Futon Critic:
You know I don't think there's a show on right now that dazzles me as much as the WB's "Angel" has this season. Consistently funny and charming while at the same time downright riveting when it comes to characterization and plotlines. It's simply amazing how much this series has grown into its own as of late. While it will always been known as a "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" spin-off nevertheless this is a show with its own identity, mission and appeal separate from the newly relocated UPN series.
All of these observations hit me once again in last night's episode "Billy." Over and over "Angel" has been a show about consequences, after all the series' main character is someone trying to redeem himself for his previous actions as a vampire, and none more true than the consequences of trading Cordelia's (Charmisa Carpenter) life for the life of an imprisoned demon. The end results of said action (I won't spoil for those who haven't watched it yet), are yet again examples of why "Angel" is an extremely unique series, unlike anything on television right now.
Whether it be the consequences of Wesley (Alexis Denisof) attacking Fred (Amy Acker); Gunn's (J. August Richards) former group attacking The Host (Andy Hallett); Lilah (Stephanie Romanov) going along with Wolfram & Hart's plans to free Billy; or Cordelia's health when it comes to her visions, this is a show that NEVER wraps anything in a neat bow before the executive producer credit at the end of the show. It's this facet I think that really digs into you and makes you feel for these people and the things that happen to them.
After all look at how much each of these characters has changed in years they've been on the show. Cordelia continues to be a real surprise as her character fleshes out more and more with each week. She's almost unrecognizable from her first appearance on "Buffy" six years ago. But it's a change that came as a natural progression of the character. It's not as if Joss Whedon or David Greenwalt said "she should be this way now," it's the end result of the events that have happened to her character all these years. From her humbling as a struggling actress to her inheriting Doyle's visions, her decisions now are based on that. And where would she be without Charisma Carpenter as her guide? I can only imagine the giddy glee she must have coming to work with such an interesting character. The same goes for Alexis Denisof and J. August Richards, both of whom have seen their characters grow and change.
Even more amazing is the fact that most of Angel's supporting cast started out a cipher's for something - Cordelia the spoiled brat, Wesley the more uptight version of Wesley and Gunn the streetwise angry kid - and developed into real three dimensional characters. Under the pens and lens of anyone but Joss Whedon and company I think they would still be that way, a real testament to the talent that works on this show from week to week.
At the center of all of this is of course David Boreanaz, whose character became a series regular on "Buffy" partly due to the audience's outcry of interest in his character. He's also taken his character to hell and back (literally) and continues to surprise with the places he and the writers have taken him. I mean could you picture anybody else at this point saying lines like "I'm outside and not bursting into flames!" or "Did I mention Charlton Heston?"
Well, I think that's enough of my fanboy raving for today. It's just there's something about this show this year that just gets me all worked up and I can't help but talk about it. If you haven't checked out "Angel" by now I highly encourage it, I only wish I hadn't seen the show so I could rewatch them again for the same experience.
All of these observations hit me once again in last night's episode "Billy." Over and over "Angel" has been a show about consequences, after all the series' main character is someone trying to redeem himself for his previous actions as a vampire, and none more true than the consequences of trading Cordelia's (Charmisa Carpenter) life for the life of an imprisoned demon. The end results of said action (I won't spoil for those who haven't watched it yet), are yet again examples of why "Angel" is an extremely unique series, unlike anything on television right now.
Whether it be the consequences of Wesley (Alexis Denisof) attacking Fred (Amy Acker); Gunn's (J. August Richards) former group attacking The Host (Andy Hallett); Lilah (Stephanie Romanov) going along with Wolfram & Hart's plans to free Billy; or Cordelia's health when it comes to her visions, this is a show that NEVER wraps anything in a neat bow before the executive producer credit at the end of the show. It's this facet I think that really digs into you and makes you feel for these people and the things that happen to them.
After all look at how much each of these characters has changed in years they've been on the show. Cordelia continues to be a real surprise as her character fleshes out more and more with each week. She's almost unrecognizable from her first appearance on "Buffy" six years ago. But it's a change that came as a natural progression of the character. It's not as if Joss Whedon or David Greenwalt said "she should be this way now," it's the end result of the events that have happened to her character all these years. From her humbling as a struggling actress to her inheriting Doyle's visions, her decisions now are based on that. And where would she be without Charisma Carpenter as her guide? I can only imagine the giddy glee she must have coming to work with such an interesting character. The same goes for Alexis Denisof and J. August Richards, both of whom have seen their characters grow and change.
Even more amazing is the fact that most of Angel's supporting cast started out a cipher's for something - Cordelia the spoiled brat, Wesley the more uptight version of Wesley and Gunn the streetwise angry kid - and developed into real three dimensional characters. Under the pens and lens of anyone but Joss Whedon and company I think they would still be that way, a real testament to the talent that works on this show from week to week.
At the center of all of this is of course David Boreanaz, whose character became a series regular on "Buffy" partly due to the audience's outcry of interest in his character. He's also taken his character to hell and back (literally) and continues to surprise with the places he and the writers have taken him. I mean could you picture anybody else at this point saying lines like "I'm outside and not bursting into flames!" or "Did I mention Charlton Heston?"
Well, I think that's enough of my fanboy raving for today. It's just there's something about this show this year that just gets me all worked up and I can't help but talk about it. If you haven't checked out "Angel" by now I highly encourage it, I only wish I hadn't seen the show so I could rewatch them again for the same experience.
#13
Originally posted by Patman
Check out this nice article on Angel from the Futon Critic:
Check out this nice article on Angel from the Futon Critic:
And thats why this whole Fred-Wesley business is bothersome. They (seemingly) drop the Fred-Angel issue and jump on a new one (Fred-Wesley), and who knows if they will stick with it or drop it.
I think what it boils down too, is confusion over whether they want to have the show be a continuous arc or more stand alone episodes. In the begining, the first season, that was the creative plan to seperate it from Buffy, do mainly stand alone episodes, however, it was only the shows that fell into the Buffy timeline that were great. Then, for the second season, Angel decided to have a story arc, and it worked great, but too many damn viewers probably complained it was "too dark". And now I fear they may be confused over how to please people, once again, bringing up plot points that are either recycled, or somehow vaporize from episode to episode.
Oh yeah, and Patman, I noticed the sound was bass heavy too.
Last edited by Slumbering Fist; 10-31-01 at 12:33 PM.
#14
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by Slumbering Fist
And thats why this whole Fred-Wesley business is bothersome. They (seemingly) drop the Fred-Angel issue and jump on a new one (Fred-Wesley), and who knows if they will stick with it or drop it.
And thats why this whole Fred-Wesley business is bothersome. They (seemingly) drop the Fred-Angel issue and jump on a new one (Fred-Wesley), and who knows if they will stick with it or drop it.
The Fred-Wesley connection will be an actual relationship with substance. I don't feel like I'm being used by these characterizations at all.
As for Lindsay getting promoted, I thought that was great. Wolfram & Hart's not about bad people or loyal people ... it's about evil people. To ccomplish their goals, they need some seriously evil bastards ... the saw that in Lindsay's defiance.
das