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Angel 10/29/01

Old 10-29-01, 09:06 PM
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Angel 10/29/01

Now that was a rough and tough episode on the whole gang!

Spoiler:
I feel really bad for Wesley, who went from being on the cusp of professing his true feeling towards Fred, and ends up spewing vile misogynistic words at Fred while under the influence of Billy's blood. And then he's left with not knowing how to deal with making this up to Fred, and that he's concerned that he's lost a woman who he clicked with, and may be lost to him forever. Yeah, probably a little overly dramatic interpretation, but I really felt bad for Wesley's predicament. Fred seemed to take it in stride. I was waiting for her to set a trap for Wesley, and damn glad she didn't let me down.

Cordy faced some of her demons as well, and so did Lilah. Too bad we didn't get to see what happened to Gavin. Angel's little dissertation on why he wasn't so affected by Billy's touch made some sense. I guess if you were as old as Angel, you'd leave a lot of petty baggage aong the side of the road of life.

Next week, Darla finally makes it to L.A.!
Old 10-30-01, 12:19 AM
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The writers on this keep surprising me on every twist and turn.

Just when I thought 'Hey, they brought the Fred/Wesley thing out in the open', they went and pushed them the other way. But hopefully they'll get together sometime.

Loved the Cordelia/Lilah exchange and also the Cordelia/Angel wrap-up at the end.

I actually thought they would have much longer story for Bill, but I'm glad they got it out of the way for Darla in the next ep.

The only thing that struck me as odd was why Lilah didn't say anything about her 'thing' with Angel a couple of weeks back.

Well, if we know anything about this show, there will be repercussions and this one might have some to last a while.
Old 10-30-01, 02:05 AM
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Wow I really loved this episode. The whole Fred Wesley scene was really creepy. That was one evil bad guy, but wow he died so easily. I thought they could have had plenty of storylines with the Congressman, but I guess they aren't going to go that route.

Spoiler:

I think next week's episode looks interesting, although I have to say I wasn't that excited to see Darla back.
Old 10-30-01, 07:54 AM
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I too thoroughly enjoyed this episode. Unfortunately, this was one of those times where Charisma Carpenter's acting ability is shown to be pretty lacking. He dialogue was very powerfully written, but she just couldn't seem to deliver in the scenes with Lilah and Angel. Still, it was a great episode. I loved the take on 'The Shining' ... hotel ... woman ... madman with axe ... what can we do with this? Hmmm ....

I loved the line from Cordy to Lilah about thinking someone carrying the mantle of "vicious bitch" wouldn't stand for this.

das
Old 10-30-01, 09:51 AM
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Does anyone listen to Angel in Dolby Pro-Logic on their HT setup? I found the vocals to be too bassy/boomy on Angel. Is it just my center channel speaker, or does it sound this way to some of you as well?
Old 10-30-01, 10:05 AM
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great episode.

the cheerleading bit in the beginning cracked me up however, i can't help but feel that fred is becoming a grown up female version of macauley culkin in home alone.

but the scene where cordy and wesley are talking about love and how they might be destined to be alone seemed kind of depressing. it's very interesting how cordy's character has gone full circle like this.
Old 10-30-01, 10:16 AM
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Considering I've been watching Cordy on the FX Buffy where she and Xander are making out all the time, yes, all this talk of love and being alone now does seem very strange, and I guess it's a long road to get from puppy love to where Cordy is now.
Old 10-30-01, 12:02 PM
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Well, surprisingly I am actually pretty disappointed, and I’m an easy man to please, but I dont like the way Angel is steering its characters.

First of all, the Fred-Wesley thing was just too obvious a route for me, too likely a pair. Sure, they threw some kinks into it, but it just seems too easy, unlike, say the Spike-Buffy thing, which was weird at first but so well plotted it became logical. I just like the things less obvious, and Wesley-Fred doesn’t do anything for me. Taking the Fred-Angel route would have been more interesting, less easy.

Lilah, has now basically become Lindsay, which is lazy character development. I wouldn’t be surprised if she loses a limb sometime soon. Its just repetition, another Wolfram And Hart insider who plays bad most of the time but can sway towards having a conscience, being good. Whats next, will she leave, only to have the Asian lawyer step up to the forefront and begin to have some morals until he is usurped by a meaner lawyer, and then that lawyer grows a conscience, and so on, and so on?

As for Billy, it seems kind of stupid to put so much focus on him, only to off him so easily, so he may be back. And his Kennedy slant was topical way too many years ago, and just wasn’t very interesting.

As far as the actual episode, ehhh, I saw the Shining. It was better.
Old 10-30-01, 12:14 PM
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In a way, I agree with Slumbering Fist. It seems like they're making lots of huge jumps with the characters. First, Fred loves Angel. That lasts for about two episodes, then they drop it for Wesley loves Fred. One quick episode about Gunn, then he's back to normal. And he's absolutely right about Lilah becoming Lindsay, that's kind of lame. I hoped Cordy would kill Billy, as that would have been a harsh step and changed her profoundly, like in Buffy's season 5 finale when
Spoiler:
Giles killed Ben.
Story-wise, it seems like this season will have the same problems as the previous two, where Wolfram and Hart will be this kind of menacing presence, but never really do anything besides pester Angel and the gang.
Finally, I was pretty disappointed when the Darla/Drusilla angle didn't go anywhere last season, but hopefully they won't make that mistake again this season.
I thought the episode was immensely entertaining, however, even if it didn't contribute to the overall scheme of things in a positive way.
Old 10-30-01, 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
Unfortunately, this was one of those times where Charisma Carpenter's acting ability is shown to be pretty lacking.
I also thought the performance was lacking. But as I watched, thinking that, I couldn't help but feel that she was giving it her all. Maybe Carpenter thinks that her clinched fists (which are out of frame) and angry eyes (hard to tell with subdued lighting) are selling the part? She does express pain quite well, though. And she can whine like nobody’s business.

The Shining bit was a little too much.

Why doesn’t Wesley live in the hotel? Why don’t they ALL live in the hotel? Can they afford separate housing and still maintain the hotel? I’m sure Dennis wouldn’t mind moving, since he would have so much extra room, don’t ya think?
Old 10-31-01, 01:16 AM
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I agree that the Wesley/Fred thing is a little too obvious and rushed, but after this episode, I wouldn't be surprised if they never get together this season.

Also, I personally wouldn't want to live with the people I work with - 40+ hours a week is enough. Although it does appear that no one on 'Angel' seems to have a life outside of the hotel.
Old 10-31-01, 10:19 AM
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Check out this nice article on Angel from the Futon Critic:

You know I don't think there's a show on right now that dazzles me as much as the WB's "Angel" has this season. Consistently funny and charming while at the same time downright riveting when it comes to characterization and plotlines. It's simply amazing how much this series has grown into its own as of late. While it will always been known as a "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" spin-off nevertheless this is a show with its own identity, mission and appeal separate from the newly relocated UPN series.

All of these observations hit me once again in last night's episode "Billy." Over and over "Angel" has been a show about consequences, after all the series' main character is someone trying to redeem himself for his previous actions as a vampire, and none more true than the consequences of trading Cordelia's (Charmisa Carpenter) life for the life of an imprisoned demon. The end results of said action (I won't spoil for those who haven't watched it yet), are yet again examples of why "Angel" is an extremely unique series, unlike anything on television right now.

Whether it be the consequences of Wesley (Alexis Denisof) attacking Fred (Amy Acker); Gunn's (J. August Richards) former group attacking The Host (Andy Hallett); Lilah (Stephanie Romanov) going along with Wolfram & Hart's plans to free Billy; or Cordelia's health when it comes to her visions, this is a show that NEVER wraps anything in a neat bow before the executive producer credit at the end of the show. It's this facet I think that really digs into you and makes you feel for these people and the things that happen to them.

After all look at how much each of these characters has changed in years they've been on the show. Cordelia continues to be a real surprise as her character fleshes out more and more with each week. She's almost unrecognizable from her first appearance on "Buffy" six years ago. But it's a change that came as a natural progression of the character. It's not as if Joss Whedon or David Greenwalt said "she should be this way now," it's the end result of the events that have happened to her character all these years. From her humbling as a struggling actress to her inheriting Doyle's visions, her decisions now are based on that. And where would she be without Charisma Carpenter as her guide? I can only imagine the giddy glee she must have coming to work with such an interesting character. The same goes for Alexis Denisof and J. August Richards, both of whom have seen their characters grow and change.

Even more amazing is the fact that most of Angel's supporting cast started out a cipher's for something - Cordelia the spoiled brat, Wesley the more uptight version of Wesley and Gunn the streetwise angry kid - and developed into real three dimensional characters. Under the pens and lens of anyone but Joss Whedon and company I think they would still be that way, a real testament to the talent that works on this show from week to week.

At the center of all of this is of course David Boreanaz, whose character became a series regular on "Buffy" partly due to the audience's outcry of interest in his character. He's also taken his character to hell and back (literally) and continues to surprise with the places he and the writers have taken him. I mean could you picture anybody else at this point saying lines like "I'm outside and not bursting into flames!" or "Did I mention Charlton Heston?"

Well, I think that's enough of my fanboy raving for today. It's just there's something about this show this year that just gets me all worked up and I can't help but talk about it. If you haven't checked out "Angel" by now I highly encourage it, I only wish I hadn't seen the show so I could rewatch them again for the same experience.
Old 10-31-01, 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Patman
Check out this nice article on Angel from the Futon Critic:

See, that article kind glosses over what is itching some of us- "Angel had been a show about consequences". See, I just dont think that is exactly true. When it suits it, it does, but there are just as many times when they let plot points fall away... How many times did Wolfram & Hart tell Lindsay he was on thin ice and better pull thorough, only to have Lindsay stab them in the back and then the great evil law firm do absolutely nothing (oh, yeah, I forgot, they promoted him!, nice punishment)? The Renegade Angel business last year, was great, and it had consequences- Angel overcame Darlas grasp and some of his dark side, but he lost the trust and command of his friends.

And thats why this whole Fred-Wesley business is bothersome. They (seemingly) drop the Fred-Angel issue and jump on a new one (Fred-Wesley), and who knows if they will stick with it or drop it.

I think what it boils down too, is confusion over whether they want to have the show be a continuous arc or more stand alone episodes. In the begining, the first season, that was the creative plan to seperate it from Buffy, do mainly stand alone episodes, however, it was only the shows that fell into the Buffy timeline that were great. Then, for the second season, Angel decided to have a story arc, and it worked great, but too many damn viewers probably complained it was "too dark". And now I fear they may be confused over how to please people, once again, bringing up plot points that are either recycled, or somehow vaporize from episode to episode.

Oh yeah, and Patman, I noticed the sound was bass heavy too.

Last edited by Slumbering Fist; 10-31-01 at 12:33 PM.
Old 10-31-01, 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by Slumbering Fist
And thats why this whole Fred-Wesley business is bothersome. They (seemingly) drop the Fred-Angel issue and jump on a new one (Fred-Wesley), and who knows if they will stick with it or drop it.
You've mentioned this a couple of times, so I'll throw this thought out there: from my perspective the Fred-Angel issue was never really an issue. Fred had a little puppy love for Angel that was just her insecurity latching on to the first thing she could find, but that was it. We knew they'd only carry that for a few episodes until she could stand on her own two feet. There was no substance there. Cordy knew what was up ... Angel knew what was up when Cordy explained it to her ... and I'd be even Fred knew what she was doing but was just too insecure to stop. So I have no problem with any of that. I'd expect her to react to Angel the way she did, and I'd expect her to fairly abruptly stop once she got herself straightened out.

The Fred-Wesley connection will be an actual relationship with substance. I don't feel like I'm being used by these characterizations at all.

As for Lindsay getting promoted, I thought that was great. Wolfram & Hart's not about bad people or loyal people ... it's about evil people. To ccomplish their goals, they need some seriously evil bastards ... the saw that in Lindsay's defiance.

das

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