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Is DOWNLOADING TV Show Episodes ILLEGAL ?

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Is DOWNLOADING TV Show Episodes ILLEGAL ?

Old 04-26-06, 06:53 AM
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There's nothing like a 5 year bump.
Old 04-26-06, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
There's nothing like a 5 year bump.
That's quite a display of stamina.


I only download episodes if I:

A. happen to miss one

B. cannot see them here (Tru Calling season 2 for example when it was first aired over seas and not here)

And then once they're watched, they're deleted. Just as if I was recording them on a TiVo or VCR.
Old 04-26-06, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by huzefa
No, I don't think it's illegal, 'cuz
a) I've already seen it on TV
b) it's pretty crappy quality
c) if possible, I buy the DVD of it when it comes out.

I think it is illegal for all those europeans and others who don't like in north america to download TV shows like friends, etc. They are still showing only the 6th season there, but those europeans are downloading the 7th season right now. That is probably illegal.
#2 is not correct in many cases. I almost never watch on the air, because I hate the commercials and the quality is nowhere near that of a large majority of my BitLord downloads (which often originate from an HD feed). Simply put, most of my downloads blow away the quality of broadcast tv. In some cases they almost equal dvd and sometimes exceed DVD (the 960x540p ones specifically).
Old 04-26-06, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Slayer2005
#2 is not correct in many cases. I almost never watch on the air, because I hate the commercials and the quality is nowhere near that of a large majority of my BitLord downloads (which often originate from an HD feed). Simply put, most of my downloads blow away the quality of broadcast tv. In some cases they almost equal dvd and sometimes exceed DVD (the 960x540p ones specifically).
It probably was in 2001.
Old 04-26-06, 10:10 AM
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It is certainly illegal to download television shows from the internet without the permission of the copyright holder. It is legal to record shows with a VCR for time-shifting purposes, but not for archiving purposes (what the Supreme Court called "librarying" in Sony v. Universal). The fact that the downloader is not rebroadcasting the shows, making any money, etc. has virtually no bearing on the infringement analysis.
Old 04-26-06, 12:19 PM
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So are you saying that after I watch a TV show recorded on VCR/Tivo I then must delete it? Otherwise I am archiving it right?
Old 04-26-06, 12:30 PM
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Even if it's illegal, the studios needs to look at the whole picture. If I never downloaded shows, I wouldn't have bought a crapload of season box sets on DVD for the series I really liked. Not to mention I got caught up on a lot of shows to the point where I could watch them when they were broadcast.
Old 04-26-06, 12:43 PM
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the only time it i would is if a show releases a podcast or commentary like scrubs did a couple weeks ago otherwise I tivo everything
Old 04-26-06, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowmaker
I only download episodes if I:

A. happen to miss one

B. cannot see them here (Tru Calling season 2 for example when it was first aired over seas and not here)

And then once they're watched, they're deleted. Just as if I was recording them on a TiVo or VCR.
Same here. I've downloaded certain UPN shows because we don't have an affiliate here. Also I've downloaded foreign shows that will never air here, at least on any channel I can get.

Otherwise I've been forced to download shows I've missed, and not just because of my forgetfulness. I've had my affilaite be completely black for 24, I've had Lost with so sound, and I've had shows not aired because our local affiliate decided to show a Billy Grahan Crusade or a local high school basketball tournament in its place. In these cases I especially do not feel guilty, because I would have watched them on my local channel if it weren't for their screwups or scheduling.

When it comes down to it, it is still far easier to just record a show to my DVR and watch it than to search for a show, download it, compile it, and then watch it on my smallish monitor (or burn it to a disc and hope it plays correctly on the tv). Downloading is a last resort for me.
Old 04-26-06, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Orson
Also, in the UK, the Police now have the right to monitor our surfing.
Like Sting doesn't have enough to worry about with the rain forests.
Old 04-26-06, 01:00 PM
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A helluva bump! I was trying to figure out why I would have italicized the word base. Took me a few minutes to remember that phenomenon
Old 04-26-06, 01:01 PM
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as far as I know, it's only illegal to upload or share. downloading is still legal
Old 04-26-06, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by edstein
So are you saying that after I watch a TV show recorded on VCR/Tivo I then must delete it? Otherwise I am archiving it right?
It's not entirely clear where the line between archiving and time-shifting lies. Clearly recording a show, burning it to dvd and putting it on your shelf for later viewing is archiving. Simply not deleting it from a DVR is less clear.
Old 04-26-06, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
as far as I know, it's only illegal to upload or share. downloading is still legal
Not true at all. When you download a show, you are making an unauthorized copy of a copyrighted work, which is illegal.
Old 04-26-06, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BobDole42
It's not entirely clear where the line between archiving and time-shifting lies. Clearly recording a show, burning it to dvd and putting it on your shelf for later viewing is archiving. Simply not deleting it from a DVR is less clear.
Although I think you are right about recording tv shows to dvd is illegal, it seems that if you have not watched it then you are still time shifting.
Old 04-26-06, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cajun_junky
Although I think you are right about recording tv shows to dvd is illegal, it seems that if you have not watched it then you are still time shifting.
If it's on your DVR and you haven't watched it yet, that is time-shifting. If you download it, no matter what the intended purpose (archiving or time-shifting), it is illegal.
Old 04-26-06, 03:23 PM
  #42  
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On-air TV is free because the commercials pay for it and you're "supposed" to watch the commercial as your half of the bargain.
With cable, your subscription pays for it.

To get a show, there's something given in exchange.... either your time (commercials) or your money (cable).


With downloading, if the commercials are removed, you're getting "something for nothing" and that's where the infringement lies.
Old 04-26-06, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GuessWho
On-air TV is free because the commercials pay for it and you're "supposed" to watch the commercial as your half of the bargain.
With cable, your subscription pays for it.

To get a show, there's something given in exchange.... either your time (commercials) or your money (cable).


With downloading, if the commercials are removed, you're getting "something for nothing" and that's where the infringement lies.
Well sorta, but not quite right. The infringement lies in the fact that you have made any unauthorized reproduction. Under US law, the copyright holder has the exclusive right to authorize the reproduction of his or her work in any media. In the digital realm, when you download a file, you do not download the original (like taking a dvd case off the shelf at Blockbuster). You instead are instructing your computer to construct an electronic replica of the file stored remotely. The data streams are transferred electronically and reassembled on site. This new file is a new "reproduction".

For that matter, posting a file for download is a dual infringement. It is an unauthorized distribution (another of the exclsive rights granted to copyright holders under 17 USC s 106) and a derivative work (creation of a new "format" or media for the original broadcast version). Creation of a derivative work is also the exclusive right of the copyright holder.

The not watch the commercials really has nothing to do with the analysis other than to point to possible lost profits or income in any actual infringement litigation.
Old 04-26-06, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wlmowery
Well sorta, but not quite right. The infringement lies in the fact that you have made any unauthorized reproduction. Under US law, the copyright holder has the exclusive right to authorize the reproduction of his or her work in any media. In the digital realm, when you download a file, you do not download the original (like taking a dvd case off the shelf at Blockbuster). You instead are instructing your computer to construct an electronic replica of the file stored remotely. The data streams are transferred electronically and reassembled on site. This new file is a new "reproduction".

For that matter, posting a file for download is a dual infringement. It is an unauthorized distribution (another of the exclsive rights granted to copyright holders under 17 USC s 106) and a derivative work (creation of a new "format" or media for the original broadcast version). Creation of a derivative work is also the exclusive right of the copyright holder.

The not watch the commercials really has nothing to do with the analysis other than to point to possible lost profits or income in any actual infringement litigation.
well said!

One thing worth noting is the role of the fair use provisions of the copyright act. "Fair use" is not a right, but rather an affirmative defense to infringement litigation. In Sony, the Supreme Court noted that the programs were broadcast for free and thus, any time-shifting was permissible (this is, of course, an oversimplification, but you get the point). Itunes has demonstrated that there is a market for downloadable tv shows, thus making it highly unlikely that any "fair use" argument in favor of unauthorized downloading would fly.
Old 04-26-06, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BobDole42
If it's on your DVR and you haven't watched it yet, that is time-shifting. If you download it, no matter what the intended purpose (archiving or time-shifting), it is illegal.
When you say download I assume you mean from the internet and not downloading it to your computer (say thru firewire).


So is firewire transfer to a pc legal? I know it can be done but does that make it legal. If it is legal then why can't you transfer a movie from your cable box to your pc then burn a copy to a blank dvd to watch later?
Old 04-26-06, 03:53 PM
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Most of you know i'm an Australian. Many shows i download we just don't get at all over here.

I honestly do not think distribution of tv on the net hurts a tv show, i think it helps it. It gives a tv show many many more viewers it would never have before. I have bought dvd box sets of tv shows which have never aired in Australia purely from watching episodes i have downloaded.

The networks know this too. It was Battlestar Galatica which showed how powerful this all is, by the time the show started airing in the US, word of mouth had spread from some people who had downloaded the show as it had aired in the UK and it really helped ratings.

Why do you think dvdscreeners of the pilot episodes of most of the new sci fi shows were leaked onto the internet this season ? (Invasion, Surface, Threshold etc). It was done intentionally to create some buzz about their show.
Old 04-26-06, 06:05 PM
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The suits and networks consider it illegal but I don't. Most of what I download I have already recorded, I'm just too tired at the time to take 10 minutes to cut the commercials myself. It's also no different than VHS days when your friend or other family member records it and lends you the tape. Just my opinion, I really don't give a hoot what others think about it. If you disagree good for you, I don't care.
Old 04-26-06, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Tazwolff
It's also no different than VHS days when your friend or other family member records it and lends you the tape.
big difference between offering a tape to a family member and offering it to millions (ie: mass distribution)
Old 04-26-06, 08:15 PM
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I recommend [Given the legal issues with using this as discussed here, I'm removing the information. D-]

Last edited by Dead; 07-31-06 at 04:36 PM.
Old 04-26-06, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tazwolff
The suits and networks consider it illegal but I don't. Most of what I download I have already recorded, I'm just too tired at the time to take 10 minutes to cut the commercials myself. It's also no different than VHS days when your friend or other family member records it and lends you the tape. Just my opinion, I really don't give a hoot what others think about it. If you disagree good for you, I don't care.
I'm not trying to enforce my personal opinions about the rightness or wrongness of downloading shows. The question posed by this thread concerned the legality of downloading television shows. It's crystal clear to me that uploading, sharing and downloading of copyrighted shows is a violation of the copyright act. Whether you think this is "right" or not doesn't change the law.

As far as copying time-shifted material from a DVR to a DVD, I don't think there is a clear answer to this one. If it is done for the purpose of viewing the program at a later date (e.g. the dvr is about to run out of room), it sounds like time-shifting to me. If it is done with the purpose of placing the DVD on your shelf as part of your collection of episodes of show X, then it sounds like unlawful librarying.

Also, removing the commercials from shows you recorded on your VCR or DVD player for archiving purposes is also unlawful.

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