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Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

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Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Old 09-21-16, 01:42 AM
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Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Before I get flamed........ Several of the USB HD manufacturers used to include a chipset that allowed XP to go beyond the 2 TB limit, It has been removed (likely at MS's request, though I can't prove that.) I found out the hard way; by buying several.

Here is a link to an article from Seagate, that while in corporate speak it does verify my statement; also the fact that I have around 10 of them that work with XP verifies it!

http://knowledge.seagate.com/article...language=en_US

My adds on Craig's list mostly get responses somewhat like "you are an idiot. XP has a 2TB limit"; which is why I posted the above first.

Now that we've got that out of the way, does anyone know where I can get a few of these drives? Brand is largely immaterial at this point. Used, mint is ok as long as it's only been plugged into an XP box (newer os's will erase the XP MBR).

I would guess from my experiences that these changes occurred about a year ago. If you have an unwrapped 3 year old USB Hard drive (or know a source) , I want it!

I've even called manufacturers, been assured they were still using the old chip set, & bought it to learn they weren't (manufacturer's have not been real up front about this; even the Seagate link was very hard to find)

Several of my drives are dieing due to heat (I'm told the MBR chipset generates more heat than a standard hard drive) & old age.

At the right price, I could want up to 5. Bottom line, is they MUST work with XP.
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Old 09-21-16, 02:19 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

I will say you are a fool for still using XP, but to each his own

Would something like this help you?

https://www.paragon-software.com/tec...ts/gpt-loader/
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Old 09-21-16, 02:28 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Unfortunately, no. It states it's for internal drives only.
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Old 09-21-16, 05:56 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

For other software solutions, you could try Seagate DiscWizard:

http://knowledge.seagate.com/article...S/FAQ/218619en
http://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/beyond-2tb/

Otherwise, if you want to get the models referenced in that article you linked, it looks like these are probably the ones:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00834SJU8

You can use the model numbers provided too (STBV3000100, et al) to find other sources at other retailers or used/new on eBay, etc.
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Old 09-22-16, 03:05 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Originally Posted by MooMooMooMoo View Post
Here is a link to an article from Seagate, that while in corporate speak it does verify my statement....

http://knowledge.seagate.com/article...language=en_US
That article doesn't verify your statement. It actually says the limit for XP 32-bit is a MBR partition at 2.2TB, and the screencap actually shows an 8TB GPT drive partition as being unusable in XP 32-bit.

This link states that to use the space above 2TB, you can install Seagate DiscWizard Extended Capacity Manager Software, which will split the drive up until multiple partitions of up to 2TB each.

http://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/beyond-2tb/
http://www.seagate.com/files/www-con.../ecm-ug-en.pdf

I think this software should work with any Seagate drive on XP. The drive may need to be MBR formatted to work with this software hack though.


Honestly though, you should upgrade to at least Windows 7. There's very little reason to keep running Windows XP, and it's going to just keep getting riskier and riskier to keep using it as severe security holes go unpatched and software like web browsers stop supporting it.
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Old 09-22-16, 03:12 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Just wanted to add that Seagate had special hardware in external drives using 4KB sector advanced format drives so that they could be used by XP:
http://www.seagate.com/tech-insights...ves-master-ti/

I don't think there was ever special hardware to over 2TB capacity though.
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Old 09-22-16, 06:01 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
That article doesn't verify your statement. It actually says the limit for XP 32-bit is a MBR partition at 2.2TB, and the screencap actually shows an 8TB GPT drive partition as being unusable in XP 32-bit.
Did you read the whole article? It certainly does verify his statement, but emphasizes that it was only in older enclosures, and not in current enclosures:

"our older line of Expansion drives came partitioned out of the box MBR; there was no size limitation with any operating system, even Windows XP. We were able to do this because these drives came with 4K sector sizes and a special bridge card installed on them to get past the 2.2TB limitation. We stopped manufacturing these drives this way, because Windows XP is no longer a supported operating system"

and

"So in short, the newer model of Expansion drives will not work without size limitation on Windows XP 32-bit and the older models of the Expansion drive will."
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Old 09-22-16, 06:11 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
"So in short, the newer model of Expansion drives will not work without size limitation on Windows XP 32-bit and the older models of the Expansion drive will."
OK, so since you have 10 of such models, can't you get the model number off of them and do an eBay/Craigslist search for those models? I'm not sure how much I'd trust my data to used harddrives, however.

A possible alternative would be to deconstruct one of the existing externals and build it into a "dock" you could plug other internal harddrives into.

Or, you could, you know, upgrade to an OS other than one that's 15 years old and hasn't had a security update in over 2 years.
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Old 09-22-16, 06:14 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Amazon lists (Old Model) Seagate Expansion drives:
https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Expan...l-STBV3000100/
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Old 09-22-16, 06:24 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

I think you've confused me with the OP. And I already linked to that drive on Amazon earlier.
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Old 09-22-16, 06:29 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

This is an interesting problem. Even with 4k sectors, would there not still be a limit of 16TB in Windows XP, or is my math and/or reasoning incorrect? Traditional drives had 512-byte sector sizes, and by increasing the sector size by 8x, max capacity would then be 2TBx8 = 16 TB on 32-bit XP.

Wouldn't another solution be to look for a custom BIOS or bootloader which loads via Int 0x13 before XP loads?

I applaud your sleuthing efforts, and finding confirmation of the *real* reason why Seagate stopped making such drives: They wanted to save a buck per drive by couching it in the eupemism of 'unsupported operating system.' Great job, Seagate. My respect for you just went down the toilet. Bravo!
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Old 09-22-16, 06:38 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

You're right, the max capacity would be 16TB. I think that's far more than enough for the OP's needs.
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Old 09-22-16, 07:13 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
Just wanted to add that Seagate had special hardware in external drives using 4KB sector advanced format drives so that they could be used by XP:
http://www.seagate.com/tech-insights...ves-master-ti/

I don't think there was ever special hardware to over 2TB capacity though.
YES THERE WAS. I have over 10 of them!
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Old 09-22-16, 07:15 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
Did you read the whole article? It certainly does verify his statement, but emphasizes that it was only in older enclosures, and not in current enclosures:

"our older line of Expansion drives came partitioned out of the box MBR; there was no size limitation with any operating system, even Windows XP. We were able to do this because these drives came with 4K sector sizes and a special bridge card installed on them to get past the 2.2TB limitation. We stopped manufacturing these drives this way, because Windows XP is no longer a supported operating system"

and

"So in short, the newer model of Expansion drives will not work without size limitation on Windows XP 32-bit and the older models of the Expansion drive will."
Yep, that's the problem. No one seems to know if the chip set is part of the enclosure, or part of the drives. If it's part of the enclosure, I theoretically could just replace a bad drive in an older enclosure where the drive has gone bad.
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Old 09-22-16, 07:16 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
Amazon lists (Old Model) Seagate Expansion drives:
https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Expan...l-STBV3000100/
I've noticed that. Unfortunately from experience over the last year, it's a crap shoot. Amazon's been good about taking stuff back (as has New Egg); but there's a limit to returns.........
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Old 09-22-16, 07:17 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
OK, so since you have 10 of such models, can't you get the model number off of them and do an eBay/Craigslist search for those models? I'm not sure how much I'd trust my data to used harddrives, however.

A possible alternative would be to deconstruct one of the existing externals and build it into a "dock" you could plug other internal harddrives into.

Or, you could, you know, upgrade to an OS other than one that's 15 years old and hasn't had a security update in over 2 years.
I have Vista & 10 ("upgraded" from 7). I can't stand them. I need to learn Linux.
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Old 09-22-16, 07:17 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
You're right, the max capacity would be 16TB. I think that's far more than enough for the OP's needs.
Yep (lol!)
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Old 09-22-16, 07:33 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

If I sound frustrated in my responses, it's because I've been running an add on Craig's List for months. I've bought 1 drive, & had tons of responses calling me an idiot.

The FACT is, my original statement is correct, whether a given reader likes that fact or not, it's been really frustrating dealing with angry people who don't know the facts.

I was hoping someone might have an idea (or better yet a stash of NOS drives they wanted to sell!).

The idea that was shared here that may be helpful is to learn how to Network one of my Win 10 boxes with my XP boxes & run the HD's from the Win 10 box's Networking connection to the XP boxes (which should work in theory at least)
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Old 09-22-16, 07:56 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Sorry, USB, missed that in my software recommendation

as for this

Originally Posted by MooMooMooMoo View Post
I have Vista & 10 ("upgraded" from 7). I can't stand them. I need to learn Linux.

I can agree, Vista was shit, and Win 10 leaves me less than happy. I love windows 7. MS has stated that ext support for 7 would continue to January 14, 2020, so that does give you quite a few more years.

Do you hate 7 too?

I never thought about some type of NAS support, that should work around your problem with ease

get one of these - Synology NAS DiskStation

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._rd_i=13436301

and pop a couple of 4TB drives in it

https://www.amazon.com/Red-4TB-Hard-...W443BT9C5SCEH5

trying to live on what I call 'antique hardware' with those older drives is setting yourself up for failure (same with still running XP)
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Old 09-22-16, 08:56 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

I had ALOT of issues with Windows update with 7. Other then that, it was ok. Similar issues have started with my Vista Laptop (sigh). Ironically, XP still updates Office with no issues!

I bought 2 cheap refurb Win 7 boxes last year so I could learn the os before it became a crisis. They have laptop burners (which I didn't know or I wouldn't have bought them). The reason I went to 10, is I assume they'll be easier to sell that way; which is going to eventually happen & the "free upgrade" period was running out.
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Old 09-22-16, 09:20 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

I have had issues with windows update here and there as well (XP and 7), no show stoppers though, always been able to work around them.

The fix it tool or the manual notes here have been pretty good at resolving

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/971058

I also keep regular full disk image backups (of my OS disk), so I can always take my OS back a month (or 3) if something gets hosed. Just food for thought. Know your OS's flaws and plan ahead
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Old 09-22-16, 09:51 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

After upgrading to Windows 10, you have a 30 day period to downgrade back to your previous OS (which you've probably exceeded at this point, I think). Downgrading still preserves your Win 10 digital entitlement license (for use in the future) on that hardware.

As for your drive situation, a NAS solution does sound like it would ease a lot of your troubles. SMB network sharing would mask all the 2TB compatibility issues.

As for your question about the chipset, the magic translation happens in the bridge chipset in the controller that's inside the USB case. The drive itself inside is not special or different. So, yes, if a drive dies, you would be able to replace it with a new drive inside the case and use it like before. That said, because of the bridge chip magic, I believe you need to format the new drive while it's inside the case. That is, you can't format a drive connected directly to a SATA port on the computer, and then put it inside the USB case. Based on my reading, you might also have to format it with Windows XP, and not Windows Vista or above, or something like that. Or maybe vice versa. I'm not clear on the details. Also, the drive must be Advanced Format, but I'm not sure whether it needs to be 4Kn or 512e, or if that even matters. To be safe, it'd be best to get a replacement drive that matches the model number of the drive inside the case. Or at least matches the sector support (either 4Kn or 512e).
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Old 09-23-16, 01:58 AM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
After upgrading to Windows 10, you have a 30 day period to downgrade back to your previous OS (which you've probably exceeded at this point, I think). Downgrading still preserves your Win 10 digital entitlement license (for use in the future) on that hardware.

As for your drive situation, a NAS solution does sound like it would ease a lot of your troubles. SMB network sharing would mask all the 2TB compatibility issues.

As for your question about the chipset, the magic translation happens in the bridge chipset in the controller that's inside the USB case. The drive itself inside is not special or different. So, yes, if a drive dies, you would be able to replace it with a new drive inside the case and use it like before. That said, because of the bridge chip magic, I believe you need to format the new drive while it's inside the case. That is, you can't format a drive connected directly to a SATA port on the computer, and then put it inside the USB case. Based on my reading, you might also have to format it with Windows XP, and not Windows Vista or above, or something like that. Or maybe vice versa. I'm not clear on the details. Also, the drive must be Advanced Format, but I'm not sure whether it needs to be 4Kn or 512e, or if that even matters. To be safe, it'd be best to get a replacement drive that matches the model number of the drive inside the case. Or at least matches the sector support (either 4Kn or 512e).
Thank you!
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Old 09-23-16, 03:27 AM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

I wish you the best of luck. But a friendly PSA: if you have your XP machine connected to the internet you are accepting a huge security risk.
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Old 09-23-16, 09:44 PM
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Re: Does Anyone Know Where To Buy NOS USB HD's That Work With XP?

I know. I have a TON of security on the 2 machines. Per SANS; XP itself still isn't as much the danger as the versions of Flash, Java, etc that run on it.
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