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USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Old 01-06-15, 11:40 AM
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USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

The USB 3.1 standard with the new Type C connector is entering into the market. The new Type C connector replaces all the previous A and B connectors, including the Micro-B, aka "Micro USB" connector used on most phones. The type C connector is reversible, like Apple's Lightning connector, meaning no more concern about plugging it in "the wrong way". Since the connector isn't backwards compatible, it's small and isn't as unwieldy as USB 3.0's micro-USB connection. Also, it's replacing the A connector on the PC end, meaning that laptops and tablets may be able to fit in multiple C connectors in place of the 1 or possibly 0, USB A ports.

In addition to the connector, USB 3.1 also doubles the speed to 10Gb/s, and increases the power output to a possible 5V 3A, meaning 15W total.

CNet has an on-hands review of the connector:
http://www.cnet.com/news/usb-type-c-...and-its-great/

The first device to have a Type C connector is the Nokia N1, although it's only a USB 2.0 interface:
http://n1.nokia.com/en


More info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_3.1

Last edited by Jay G.; 01-06-15 at 01:04 PM. Reason: 3A max, not 2.5
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Old 01-06-15, 12:11 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

This is a great news, and this set up would be even better than the Apple Lightning system, since you use the same connector at both ends of the cable. With Lightning, you still have USB Standard A at one end.

But, I guess it takes time to proliferate, so we will have cables with A connector on one end, and C on the other end for a long time.
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Old 01-06-15, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
The USB 3.1 standard with the new Type C connector is entering into the market. The new Type C connector replaces all the previous A and B connectors, including the Micro-B, aka "Micro USB" connector used on most phones. The type C connector is reversible, like Apple's Lightning connector, meaning no more concern about plugging it in "the wrong way". Since the connector isn't backwards compatible, it's small and isn't as unwieldy as USB 3.0's micro-USB connection. Also, it's replacing the A connector on the PC end, meaning that laptops and tablets may be able to fit in multiple C connectors in place of the 1 or possibly 0, USB A ports.

In addition to the connector, USB 3.1 also doubles the speed to 10Gb/s, and increases the power output to a possible 5V 2.5A, meaning 15W total.

CNet has an on-hands review of the connector:
http://www.cnet.com/news/usb-type-c-...and-its-great/

The first device to have a Type C connector is the Nokia N1, although it's only a USB 2.0 interface:
http://n1.nokia.com/en

More info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_3.1
I like reversible.


Btw, 5v 2.5A= 12w.

My note 4 already supports 15w charging with micro usb, though it is done my increasing the voltage. Some chromebooks use 5v 3a,so going to 5v 2.5a is a reduction in charging potential.
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Old 01-06-15, 01:08 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by D.Pham4GLTE (>60GB) View Post
Btw, 5v 2.5A= 12w.
My bad, the max is 5V 3A, so it's still 15W max. I've edited my post.
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Old 01-06-15, 01:20 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

3 amps!!! Whoo!!!

Question: with USB 2.0 (480mbps - 60 MB/s) is actually about 30 MB/s max w/ latency (?), does that mean the speed with USB 3/3.1 is half of what it says 5/10Gb/s?
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Old 01-06-15, 02:04 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
Question: with USB 2.0 (480mbps - 60 MB/s) is actually about 30 MB/s max w/ latency (?), does that mean the speed with USB 3/3.1 is half of what it says 5/10Gb/s?
The hands-on test showed 800MB/s read/write speed to a RAID 0 of two SSDs. That's more than half (10Gb/s is 1.25GB/s, and half that would be 640MB/s). It's not clear if the limitation is the interface or the drives.
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Old 01-06-15, 04:35 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Please god yes let's get rid of old USB ports.

Does this update fix the bug that allowed malicious code to be added to a machine by any USB device?
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Old 01-06-15, 05:54 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Sounds good to me, but yeah I imagine Type-C to A cables will be quite prevalent for awhile given how wide spread USB is on people's computers and laptops. And thinking about it, i'm not sure how much sense or how practical it would be it has to have the reversible Type-C for basic charging for phones and what not because of it anytime soon.
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Old 01-06-15, 07:11 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Huh? I think phones would be some of the first to move over to the new standard.
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Old 01-06-15, 07:43 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Huh? I think phones would be some of the first to move over to the new standard.
Sorry, I meant having a Type C to Type C cable as your phone's charging cable and replacing the standard Type A connector on the other end. I shouldn't have used the word reversible since it was used in reference to the one end of the cable earlier opposed to having both ends the same as the article also mentions.
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Old 01-07-15, 03:09 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

I know the connectors aren't backwards compatible, but do they offer some sort of pin compatibility so that a simple adapter can work with USB hosts/devices?
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Old 01-07-15, 03:20 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by wmansir View Post
I know the connectors aren't backwards compatible, but do they offer some sort of pin compatibility so that a simple adapter can work with USB hosts/devices?
This means before Type-C becomes universal, existing host and peripheral devices will need an adapter to work with other Type-C-enabled devices.

This is the fist time adapters are required with USB, and likely the only time, at least for the the foreseeable future. USB Implementers Forum, the group responsible for the development of USB, says that Type-C USB is designed to be future-proof, meaning the design will be used for future and faster USB versions.

More info here
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Old 01-07-15, 05:06 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by wmansir View Post
I know the connectors aren't backwards compatible, but do they offer some sort of pin compatibility so that a simple adapter can work with USB hosts/devices?
I don't know if it will be as simple as matching pins, since type C is reversible, so you can't presume a pin on the type C connector will be a particular pinout (it will be one of two possible). However, there will likely be small adapters.

From Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_3.1
Type-A and Type-B adaptors/cables will be required for legacy devices in order to plug into Type-C hosts, however adaptors/cables with a Type-C receptacle are not allowed.
I imagine there will be a lot of Type-A to Type-C cables for connecting Type-C devices to older PC/Chargers. And there will likely be Type-C to Type-A port adapters for plugging older devices into newer laptops and tablets with Type-C ports.
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Old 01-07-15, 05:07 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

This cnet article claims that type C and 3.1 can carry up to 20V and 5A (100W). Is that correct, or is it limited to 5V at 3A (15W)?

They are saying it could power a laptop.
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Old 01-07-15, 05:33 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by RoboDad View Post
This cnet article claims that type C and 3.1 can carry up to 20V and 5A (100W). Is that correct, or is it limited to 5V at 3A (15W)?
That's part of the USB Power Delivery Specification. It's not specifically part of USB 3.1 (it can be added to USB 2.0 and USB 3.0), and I'm not sure it's specifically required:
http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/

This slide presentation from 2012 on the spec shows that you need a "PD aware" cable to get the higher power, and micro-USB is limited to 60W:
http://www.usb.org/developers/powerd...troduction.pdf

The 3.1 spec might have more specific info:
http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/
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Old 01-07-15, 06:38 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Future-proof. Designed.

I've heard this so many times over the last few decades. This is a nice new product but I sincerely doubt future-proof will be part of it.
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Old 01-07-15, 07:41 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Future-proof. Designed.

I've heard this so many times over the last few decades. This is a nice new product but I sincerely doubt future-proof will be part of it.
I doubt that it will be a connector that will never be replaced, but I'm thinking by "future-proof," they mean being able to update/change the spec without having the change the connector, similar to how USB 1.1 and 2.0 used the same connectors as USB 1.0, and unlike how USB 3.0 needed new connectors.

HDMI has gone through 5-13 revisions, depending on how you count it, and kept the same connector:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_comparison
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Old 01-07-15, 08:09 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

OK, I dug into the PDFs included in the USB 3.1 spec.

Here's more info, from the "USB Type-C Specification Release 1.0.pdf"



The USB Type-C receptacle is specified for current capability of 5 A whereas standard USB Type-C cable assemblies are rated for 3 A. The higher rating of the receptacle enables systems to deliver more power over directly attached docking solutions or using appropriately designed chargers with captive cables when implementing USB PD. Also, USB Type-C cable assemblies designed for USB PD and appropriately identified via electronic marking are allowed to support up to 5 A.
So it looks like Type-C cables and ports by default support 5V up to 3A. However, if the cables and ports are also "Power Delivery" designed, they can support up to 20V 5A.


Also, from "USB_PD_R2_0 V1.0 - 20140807.pdf":
A. Power Profiles
Power Profiles are optional normative. They define a standardized set of voltages at several current ranges that are offered by USB Power Delivery Sources. The profiles are defined for Sources only.
The Power Profiles are optional but are intended to provide a finite set of power levels to:
  • Limit the number of voltages and current combinations a Source has to supply
  • Provide a well-defined set of voltage and current combinations from which a Sink can choose
  • Provide a selection of power ranging from 10W to 100W in approximately 2x steps
  • Limit the number of valid combinations
A.1 Profile Definitions
There are the following profiles based on Fixed Supply Objects:
  • Profile 0 reserved
  • Profile 1 capable of supplying at least 5V @ 2.0A
  • Profile 2 ports are capable of supplying at least [email protected] 2.0A, 12V @ 1.5A.
  • Profile 3 ports are capable of supplying at least 5V @ 2.0A, 12V @ 3A.
  • Profile 4 ports are capable of supplying at least 5V @ 2.0A, 12V and 20V at 3A respectively.
  • Profile 5 ports are capable of supplying at least 5V @ 2.0A, 12V and 20V at 5A respectively.
Power Profiles are defined to overlap such that a Device that requires a Profile 2 Source will operate equally well when connected to a Profile 2 or any higher Profile Source.

Sources may have additional capabilities. For example a Source might advertise 5V @ 3.0A, 12V and 15V at 1.5A respectively. It is a Profile 2 Source because it meets the Profile 2 requirements to supply 5V @ 2.0A and 12V @ 1.5A. The fact that it can also supply 5V @ 3.0A and 15V will have no effect on a Device that wants a Profile 2 source.

Profile 5 Sources that are capable of 100W operation are subject to various worldwide safety standards. In order to meet the most common safety standards, the continuous output power cannot exceed 100W and the continuous output current cannot exceed 5A.
So devices and power sources that use Power Delivery will likely have a Power Profile rating, depending on what voltages and amperage it can supply. It's possible that this power profile will be mentioned in the specs, or the manufacturers may just list the power combinations their power supplies support.

It is an interesting development, even though it's not tied specifically to Type-C. It does mean that there's the chance of maybe getting a "universal" power connector, even for laptops. And since it's over USB, it can even be used for say a docking station that both supplies power and additional USB ports for laptops and devices.
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Old 01-08-15, 09:11 AM
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Is this something exclusive to usb 3.1 though? The turbo charger supports up to 12v already over usb 2.0. Not sure if a higher voltage could be supported though, unlikely for mobile devices as car is limited to 12v. You can upconvert theoretically but it is more difficult.


And I thought that 5a could theoretically be supported on usb 2.0 as well?
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Old 01-08-15, 09:36 AM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by D.Pham4GLTE (>60GB) View Post
Is this something exclusive to usb 3.1 though?
No, the Power Delivery Specification has been around since 2012, and as an optional spec, can be applied to USB 2.0 ports and up.


The Motorola Turbo Charger uses Qualcomm’s Quick Charge 2.0 technology, which according to this article is at least patially based on Power Delivery 2.0:
http://www.androidauthority.com/quic...lained-563838/

It looks like Power Delivery is an update/replacement to the older "Battery Charging Specification revision 1.2 (BC1.2)"
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1279469

The takeaway is the USB 3.1 with Type C will offer a higher "default" maximum current of up to 3A on the standard 5V. So if you see a USB 3.1/Type C port you know it will at least support that. The optional PD spec allows the option for higher voltages and amperage, but it's not standard, so you'll have to look for specific chargers/cables/devices that can support it.
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Old 01-08-15, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
No, the Power Delivery Specification has been around since 2012, and as an optional spec, can be applied to USB 2.0 ports and up.

The Motorola Turbo Charger uses Qualcomm’s Quick Charge 2.0 technology, which according to this article is at least patially based on Power Delivery 2.0:
http://www.androidauthority.com/quic...lained-563838/

It looks like Power Delivery is an update/replacement to the older "Battery Charging Specification revision 1.2 (BC1.2)"
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1279469

The takeaway is the USB 3.1 with Type C will offer a higher "default" maximum current of up to 3A on the standard 5V. So if you see a USB 3.1/Type C port you know it will at least support that. The optional PD spec allows the option for higher voltages and amperage, but it's not standard, so you'll have to look for specific chargers/cables/devices that can support it.
If 3a max, what is the minimum?
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Old 01-08-15, 12:17 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by D.Pham4GLTE (>60GB) View Post
If 3a max, what is the minimum?
I think the minimum current is whatever the device is pulling. If it's only pulling 200mA, then the port is only going to deliver 200mA

The lowest possible "maximum" it will deliver is 500mA if it's a USB 2.0 device (or at least identifies as one). It's possible for a USB 2.0 device with BC 1.2 specification to get up to 1.5A though, or up to 3.0A with the PD spec. See the chart I posted above.
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Old 01-08-15, 12:41 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

This is good news but I think I still like the male connector style of the Apple Lightening connector. The female "mini" and "micro" usb connectors are a bitch sometimes to plug into devices. This new type C is not that much different from those, just reversible.
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Old 01-08-15, 01:01 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Are they really a bitch to plugin for you? I don't think i've ever had any issues plugging in devices with micro or mini USB compared to a lightning cable, although I have had one micro-usb cable stop fitting in properly.

As much as I do like the reversible lightning cable, I still fucking hate having to deal with Apple specific cables (as someone who has a lot of other non-Apple devices)

Last edited by fumanstan; 01-08-15 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 01-08-15, 01:28 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

They don't bother me too much, I more or less just dislike the port or cable occasionally stops fitting after a few months.
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