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USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Old 01-08-15, 02:11 PM
  #26  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by RichC2 View Post
They don't bother me too much, I more or less just dislike the port or cable occasionally stops fitting after a few months.
Micro-USB was specifically designed so that if something goes wrong, it goes wrong with the cable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Overview
Counter-intuitively, the "micro" size is the most durable from the point of designed insertion lifetime... Micro connectors were designed with frequent charging of portable devices in mind; not only is design lifetime of the connector improved to 10,000 cycles [but it was also redesigned to place the flexible contacts, which wear out sooner, on the easily replaced cable, while the more durable rigid contacts are located in the micro-USB receptacles. Likewise, the springy part of the retention mechanism (parts that provide required gripping force) were also moved into plugs on the cable side.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Mi...cro_connectors
The Micro plug.. [is] designed to reduce the mechanical wear on the device; instead the easier-to-replace cable is designed to bear the mechanical wear of connection and disconnection.
I think the Type-C connector continues with the trend of putting the things most likely to wear out on the plug end.

It's not clear with Lightning, but it seems like at least the retention mechanism is built into the receptacle side, meaning it's likely that when it wears out, it will mean the device with the port won't be able to retain a plug in it anymore, and it won't be fixable by just getting a new cord.
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Old 01-08-15, 07:20 PM
  #27  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/...-going-to-use/

A lot of stuff that's already posted here, but some also interesting tidbits about it.

Both DisplayPort and MHL have already announced support for USB Alternate Mode, meaning that properly configured devices will be able to use physical USB Type-C cables to transmit non-USB data. A Type-C cable has four data lanes across eight pins, and these lanes are capable of carrying either USB 3.1 or DisplayPort signals (or any other Alternate Mode data, really). You could devote two lanes to each protocol, allowing you to drive a monitor and transfer data via USB 3.1 over the same cable. Or you could give over all four ports to the DisplayPort protocol, in which case the Type-C cable can use its dedicated USB 2.0 pins to transfer data over the older protocol—it's slower, but still plenty fast for mice, keyboards, game controllers, and many other peripherals.

For an easy real-world example, consider Apple's Thunderbolt display. Using Thunderbolt, you can use a single cable both to drive the external display and to add additional USB ports, Ethernet, and speakers. USB Type-C and USB 3.1 can be used the same way. Older monitors with USB hubs in them needed separate cables for the data and video signals. The USB-IF had a demo station to show this off—an external hard drive and display were being driven over USB Type-C, and you could disconnect them both from the host laptop by unplugging a single cable. At the moment this demonstration requires a maze of cables and exposed circuit boards, but by the time it comes to market it will all be condensed enough to fit inside your computer.

Taken together, all of these capabilities make it feasible to create devices like that look like the rumored MacBook Air renders that have been floating around all week. 9to5Mac's sources suggest a redesigned MacBook Air that uses a single USB Type-C port for everything—charging, transferring data, and pushing external displays. It is, in our opinion, highly impractical for Apple or anyone else to ship a PC with just a single do-everything port, but these new USB specs make such a device possible. Eventually, we'd fully expect to see laptops that simply ship with a handful of USB ports instead of the mix of USB, HDMI, DisplayPort, Thunderbolt, and other interfaces that are so common now.
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Old 03-09-15, 05:12 PM
  #28  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Apple announced a new 12" Macbook that has a single USB Type C connector as its only port. Everything, including powering the laptop, goes through this connector:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/03...splay-macbook/
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Old 03-09-15, 05:19 PM
  #29  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

But other new Macbooks will have the regular connections?

And the Macbook Air is still the only macbook that doesn't have a DVD drive?
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Old 03-09-15, 05:28 PM
  #30  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
Apple announced a new 12" Macbook that has a single USB Type C connector as its only port. Everything, including powering the laptop, goes through this connector:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/03...splay-macbook/
Not surprising, but I wonder what Apple plans to do with the Lightning connector now. In many ways, USB-C is more desirable, but they have so much invested already in Lightning that I think it will be difficult for them to give it up.
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Old 03-09-15, 05:29 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
But other new Macbooks will have the regular connections?

And the Macbook Air is still the only macbook that doesn't have a DVD drive?
Not sure on the first question, but none of the MacBook models have disc drives now. I bought a new MacBook Pro last year and it didn't have one.
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Old 03-09-15, 07:44 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
But other new Macbooks will have the regular connections?
Yes, the new Macbook Pros have standard connections, including upgraded Lightning 2.0 ports:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/03...same-displays/

More info on the new Macbook
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/03...e-port-wonder/
The most controversial thing about the MacBook is its port configuration: it’s got a headphone jack for audio, and a single USB Type C port for literally everything else.

Apple leaned on its various wireless technologies—AirPlay, AirDrop—to compensate for the lack of ports, but that doesn’t account for what many power users actually do with their laptops. They’re portable machines, yes, but you can also plunk them down on a desk and connect them to power and peripherals and larger displays for a more desktop-esque experience. How do you do this on a laptop with one port?

The answer, for better or worse, involves yet more dongles. Apple was showing off a couple of things that split the Type C port into a few different, more conventional ports made possible by Type C’s support of multiple protocols. One had a Type C port for charging, an HDMI port for video out, and a USB Type A port for accessories. Another used a VGA port instead of HDMI.

Those were the only first-party versions we saw, but we’re sure either Apple or third-parties will create versions with Ethernet ports, DisplayPort, and whatever other kind of interfaces people want to use. Apple's first-party adapters cost $79, so let's hope third-parties can get there for a little less money.

The new MacBook's charger is a cross between the standard MacBook charger and an iPhone or iPad charger. It uses a regular USB Type C cable that unplugs from the adapter—no more replacing the whole brick just because the cable frays—but the brick itself is comparable in size to the 45W adapter that ships with the MacBook Air.

USB Type C, the USB Power Delivery spec, and USB Alternate Mode make it a very versatile connector. It can carry USB signal (this is USB 3.0, not 3.1—Type C and 3.1 are separate specs), up to 100W of power, and any number of different display protocols. Just get ready to shell out for new dongles to replace your old dongles.
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Old 03-10-15, 02:05 AM
  #33  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

I can forgive 1 port.
I can forgive Core M
I can even forgive a 480p webcam

The Glowing Logo: No
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Old 03-10-15, 07:12 AM
  #34  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by oncease View Post
I can forgive 1 port.
I can forgive Core M
I can even forgive a 480p webcam

The Glowing Logo: No
From the article above:
The one thing this MacBook doesn’t have that all MacBooks have had is a glowing Apple logo on the back of the lid, which we assume was thrown out to save space—it’s been replaced by a reflective, smooth logo like the one on iDevices.
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Old 03-10-15, 03:35 PM
  #35  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

The adapters in the Apple store include a "legacy" USB port, a USB-C port and a video port (HDMI or VGA) - but not as far as I see an Ethernet port. Is there some technical reason behind this, or is it just an Apple thing?
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Old 03-10-15, 03:47 PM
  #36  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by flagstone View Post
The adapters in the Apple store include a "legacy" USB port, a USB-C port and a video port (HDMI or VGA) - but not as far as I see an Ethernet port. Is there some technical reason behind this, or is it just an Apple thing?
I'm guessing an Apple thing. You could add a USB Ethernet adapter to the legacy USB port on their adapters.
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Old 03-10-15, 05:13 PM
  #37  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

True, but I'd hope to avoid having to chain multiple dongles together to get back to where I was.
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Old 03-10-15, 06:51 PM
  #38  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by flagstone View Post
True, but I'd hope to avoid having to chain multiple dongles together to get back to where I was.
You could wait for 3rd party adapters, one of them is bound to include an ethernet port.
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Old 03-11-15, 11:26 AM
  #39  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

They came out with a Thunderbolt->Ethernet adapter for the when the rMBPs came out so i would think they would have one coming out for USB-C.
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Old 03-11-15, 01:32 PM
  #40  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Google has launched the 2nd gen Chromebook Pixel today, and it uses USB C ports too, although it has two of them, and also two conventional USB ports.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/...imited-appeal/
My favorite thing about the Pixel is how it uses USB Type C, and I suspect that most PC OEMs are going to ape what Google has done here when their laptops begin including the new connector.

We won’t recap all of Type C’s features here, but this is what you need to know to understand how the Pixel is using it. The Type C connector can be used for a whole lot more than file transfers and accessories—the supplementary USB Power Delivery spec allows Type C to provide up to 100W of power. USB Alternate Mode allows the physical USB cable to carry other kinds of signals, including DisplayPort and HDMI. And the Type C connector is physically larger and more robust, which inspires more confidence than the sometimes-flimsy Type B [Micro] connector does.

Google is using all of these in the Pixel. The laptop charges via USB Type C rather than a standard power adapter, and it uses Type C plus various dongles (yes, yet more dongles) to drive HDMI and DisplayPort displays. Unlike the recently announced Retina MacBook, Google has included one Type C port on either side of the laptop, which is kind of ingenious: you can plug in the power adapter or the display from either side. Normally, you need to twist your charger cable around to accommodate the location of the power connector. In the Pixel, you just plug it in on whatever side is the most convenient.

It’s a small change, but when I first saw it I had one of those forehead-slapping “of course” moments. The ability to plug either your power adapter or your monitor in from either side is a big help if your desk at home has a different layout from your desk at work, or if the surge protector on your side of the couch/bed is opposite the power plug on whatever laptop you’re currently using.

One thing about USB Type C that we’ve mentioned several times is that, even though it promises to be the only port you need, in these early days it’s just something else to adapt to. The fact that the Pixel has more ports than the Retina MacBook is great, and its two run-of-the-mill USB Type A plugs help too. But if you want to plunk it down on your desk with all of your existing monitors and other accessories, you still need to be prepared to buy some new dongles or adapters.

Google's official dongles vary in price; male Type C to male Type A cables and male Type C to female Type A cables will each run $13. Type C to DisplayPort and Type C to HDMI will each run $40. As Type C ports become more common, hopefully these adapters and dongles become more plentiful and inexpensive.

....The USB Type C adapter included with the laptop can provide up to 71.5W of power to the Pixel if you're charging an empty battery, and Google claims that you can get "two hours of battery life with just 15 minutes of charge." If you've got a Type C cable and any other USB charger, you can still use it to charge the Pixel, it just won't be as fast. Depending on how much power your adapter can provide, you may need to put the Pixel to sleep or shut the lid to actually charge the battery.
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Old 03-11-15, 05:07 PM
  #41  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
Google has launched the 2nd gen Chromebook Pixel today, and it uses USB C ports too, although it has two of them, and also two conventional USB ports.
I have seen the first-gen Pixel, and it is really beautiful, but too expensive at $1300, I think. The new Pixel is still too expensive, even though they dropped it to $1000. I'd rather get a Surface Pro.
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Old 03-11-15, 08:40 PM
  #42  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
I have seen the first-gen Pixel, and it is really beautiful, but too expensive at $1300, I think. The new Pixel is still too expensive, even though they dropped it to $1000. I'd rather get a Surface Pro.
I wonder if the Surface Pro 4 will go Type C.
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Old 03-11-15, 10:23 PM
  #43  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

^ I sure hope so. The brick needs to be downsized too - it's quite large on the Surface Pro 3, similar to a laptop brick.
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Old 03-12-15, 07:19 AM
  #44  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
^ I sure hope so. The brick needs to be downsized too - it's quite large on the Surface Pro 3, similar to a laptop brick.
That makes sense, since a Surface Pro 3 has hardware comparable to a laptop.
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Old 03-12-15, 07:49 AM
  #45  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

I don't think the brick is all that bad on the Surface Pro 3, plus it has a handy USB port on it. I mean, sure it isn't a USB charger like a regular tablet, but it also isn't a regular tablet.

I don't think MS would switch to that for charging as it has a larger footprint than it's current mag-based charger, but what do I know. I really like the idea of having it charge from either side, in a port that both takes charge and pushes output.
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Old 03-12-15, 05:56 PM
  #46  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

USB type C sounds great, and it will be great... But it'll be an expensive proposition, with $13 power and $40 HDMI cables needed to run it with 'legacy' standards. So, that'll add more than $50 to the price of a new laptop in cables alone. And you just *know* these cables won't be included by the manufacturer! There won't be a standard HDMI output anymore, it'll all change to USB 3.1 type C, with the necessity of that $40 cable.
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Old 03-12-15, 11:58 PM
  #47  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
So, that'll add more than $50 to the price of a new laptop in cables alone. And you just *know* these cables won't be included by the manufacturer!
You think?

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Old 03-15-15, 02:34 PM
  #48  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Article explaining what Apple's description of "USB 3.1 gen 1," for the port on the new Macbook means:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/03...etina-macbook/

Basically, "USB 3.1 gen 1," is USB 3.0 with a Type C port. "USB 3.1 gen 2" will have the faster 10Gb/s speeds included in the USB 3.1 spec.
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Old 03-15-15, 05:46 PM
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

So, Apple's USB 3.1 won't be much use until "gen 2"? Or, rather it will be of use to Apple because they'll get to sell you expensive cables and profit greatly?

Or, am I reading it wrong, the new port will offer all the benefits of type C without the increased speed?
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Old 03-15-15, 06:50 PM
  #50  
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Re: USB 3.1 with new Type C connector

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
So, Apple's USB 3.1 won't be much use until "gen 2"? Or, rather it will be of use to Apple because they'll get to sell you expensive cables and profit greatly?

Or, am I reading it wrong, the new port will offer all the benefits of type C without the increased speed?
Well, the article lists the 4 overlapping specs that have been released mostly at once:
  • Type C connector
  • USB 3.1 Gen 2
  • USB Power Delivery
  • USB Alternate Mode

The Macbook has all but "USB 3.1 Gen 2," and that is only the increased speed (which would require a compatible "USB 3.1 Gen 2" device to connect with to be useful anyway). So the MacBook has the "universal" type C connector that can deliver high voltage power to the laptop via USB PD, and can output VGA and/or HDMI via USB Alternate Mode.
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