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What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Old 06-28-12, 10:01 AM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by Deftones View Post
it's a combination of both. they could easily lower the price on a phone, but they don't. no reason to since they sell like crazy no matter the price.
Not really. We're not talking about a monopoly on a necessary good here, we're talking about a highly competitive product space that no one needs. Just take a look at the resell value on iPhones.

Just because the cost of something could be "easily" lowered (what couldn't?) doesn't mean the price is kept artificially high.
Old 06-28-12, 10:11 AM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by fumanstan View Post
I still really love my Kindle Fire, but at this point I can't imagine buying one unless there's a crazy deal for it. I'd be interested in what the next product Amazon comes out with.
Yeah, it's really just that I have Prime that is making me even consider it. I guess if they fire sale to under a hundred I might still do it. But the nexus for $200 with $25 in credit at Google play is still tempting.
Old 06-28-12, 10:24 AM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

^ The biggest downside to dropping the Kindle Fire for the Nexus 7 is just that... Amazon services. Sure, you can still get the Kindle app, which is awesome, but you lose the Instant Video functionality, which I'm a big fan of. I don't use the Amazon Music app at all, since I prefer Spotify.
You'd think, with Amazon being relatively format agnostic, they'd have an Instant Video app for normal android folks, too.
Old 06-28-12, 10:39 AM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Not really. We're not talking about a monopoly on a necessary good here, we're talking about a highly competitive product space that no one needs. Just take a look at the resell value on iPhones.

Just because the cost of something could be "easily" lowered (what couldn't?) doesn't mean the price is kept artificially high.
what you are saying is contradictory. of course it is kept artificially high. they are profiting like mad men by keeping the price where it is.
Old 06-28-12, 10:42 AM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Who actually makes it?
Old 06-28-12, 10:47 AM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Kindle Fire = Quanta Computer
Nexus 7 = ASUS

Both are Taiwanese companies. Quanta did the MacBook Air for a while.
Old 06-28-12, 10:50 AM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

And the Playbook, right?
Old 06-28-12, 10:52 AM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by RichC2 View Post
Kindle Fire = Quanta Computer
Nexus 7 = ASUS

Both are Taiwanese companies. Quanta did the MacBook Air for a while.
But is it branded like the samsung galaxy nexus or strictly branded as Google?

Also is there any plans for a model with cell radios?
Old 06-28-12, 10:58 AM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

The article I read said the Nexus has NFC.
Old 06-28-12, 11:07 AM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by Deftones View Post
what you are saying is contradictory. of course it is kept artificially high. they are profiting like mad men by keeping the price where it is.
How is what I'm saying contradictory? People are willing to pay the price Apple sets for an iPhone. If they weren't, then the price would be artificially high. Do you recall what happened when the iPhone first launched?

The fact that the resell value for iPhones is very close to its cost when purchased new is further proof of that.

By your reasoning, any price is "artificially high" unless the product is being sold at a loss.
Old 06-28-12, 11:09 AM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by D.Pham00 View Post
But is it branded like the samsung galaxy nexus or strictly branded as Google?

Also is there any plans for a model with cell radios?
There's ASUS branding on the box and the device.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/28/nexus-7-review/
Old 06-28-12, 11:44 AM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by D.Pham00 View Post
I never said that cell radios and GPS are on the CPU chip, just that, if Apple wanted to, by today’s standards, they certainly could have if they chose to. Obviously they chose the cheapest route.
Just because they didn't do an all-in-one SOC doesn't mean that they went with the cheapest route. Cheaper route maybe, but even not all on the same chip, having all that be that small is still plenty expensive.

Originally Posted by D.Pham00 View Post
IBut that being said, I don’t think that the miniaturization really justifies the extra cost of the ipod touch vs. the iphone. The iPhone 4S has a BOM of $188... They are making way more than whatever r&d cost is over the lifetime of the phone. Otherwise, Apple would not be posting such huge profits.
I still don't buy those BOM prices. What's your source?

Anyway, let's take a trip back to the first iPhone. Apple sold it off-contract (it was only available off-contract), so the MSRP wasn't "inflated" to make the subsidized price look better. Obviously Apple would want to sell this new item at a competitive price right? So what was the price? $600 for the 8GB model.

They quickly dropped the price to $400 after a few months, but Apple switch to the on-contract subsidized pricing for the next generation. Obviously selling at even $400 was too much for many consumers, and not enough for Apple.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...e#U.S._release

Next, let's look at the Nexus One. This was Google's attempt to bypass carriers and retailers and sell directly to consumers. Again, they'd want to offer a competitive price. So what was the price? $530. The phone flopped.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexus_one

Now granted, a lot of people point to it being online-only with limited customer support as being a major factor for its failure. However, Google didn't sell another phone directly until the Galaxy Nexus, and that was only after it was on the market for several months already. Obviously, those initial sales at the higher prices are important to the success of a phone.

Originally Posted by D.Pham00 View Post
IAbsolutely, I never said that the exhibit ii is a high end phone...
You said that it's far cheaper than "a similar post paid phone," but you didn't mention any similar post paid phone models. Most post-paid phones are better than it, and ones that are similar in features are free on-contract.

Originally Posted by D.Pham00 View Post
The point I was trying to make is that the “unsubsidized” price of the gnex at $650 on Verizon vs. $350 straight from Google, so Verizon is artificially inflating the price.
Verizon may be artificially keeping the "non-contract" price high, but they've repeatedly cut the on-contract pricing for it. So obviously their costs for the phone (i.e. what Samsung charges them for it) must have gone down.

Originally Posted by D.Pham00 View Post
Yes, but I think that car manuf. Are dividing the cost more evenly than android cell phones which drop like a brick for on contract, but at least for Verizon, no contract pricing remains high for quite a while.
Car manufacturers release a new model once a year, at more or less a regular schedule. Cell phone manufacturers are releasing new phones every few months, at random points all year. the lifecycle isn't the same. Also, I'm sure R&D can be absorbed more easily into a $20K item than a $600 item.

Originally Posted by D.Pham00 View Post
Sure they are dividing the costs, but again, my point being was that particularly on Verizon, the unsubsidized price is high, and remains higher than at least what I think it should be.
For older phones, maybe the off-contract price on Verizon is kept too high. For newer phones, that initial high price is probably close to what it'd pull sans carrier (as can been seen by the prices in other countries for new phones).

Originally Posted by D.Pham00 View Post
I might have been facetious in saying the next day, but I am almost certain that a few days or a week or two at most before Google announced the unlocked GNex, that Verizon was still selling the Gnex for $300 on contract.
You have the events reversed. On Monday, April 23, Verizon dropped the price of the Galaxy Nexus to $199 on contract. The next day, April 24, Google started selling their no-contract model for $399:
http://androidcommunity.com/verizon-...-199-20120423/
http://androidcommunity.com/unlocked...-399-20120424/

I thought that the Verizon iphone 4 was a CDMA specific phone, without GSM bands?
I was referring to the iPhone 4S, which is a world phone.
Old 06-28-12, 12:31 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
How is what I'm saying contradictory? People are willing to pay the price Apple sets for an iPhone. If they weren't, then the price would be artificially high. Do you recall what happened when the iPhone first launched?

The fact that the resell value for iPhones is very close to its cost when purchased new is further proof of that.

By your reasoning, any price is "artificially high" unless the product is being sold at a loss.
now you are putting words in my mouth. bottom line is many phones (android, blackberry) get dropped in price over time. those companies still make money on discounted sales of the phone. apple phones to not. that is apple keeping the prices artificially high, which allows them maximum profit. i'm not faulting apple for doing what they do. if people will pay that price, more power to them.
Old 06-28-12, 12:41 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
How is what I'm saying contradictory? People are willing to pay the price Apple sets for an iPhone. If they weren't, then the price would be artificially high. Do you recall what happened when the iPhone first launched?

The fact that the resell value for iPhones is very close to its cost when purchased new is further proof of that.

By your reasoning, any price is "artificially high" unless the product is being sold at a loss.
No, "artificially high" simply means Apple keeps the price high ($550) so people will go get contracts on em. Take the radios out and they have a much cheaper item (~ $199 iPod Touch). A HSPA+ Radio doesn't cost $350. That's artificially high.

Now sure you can go buy one for $199 on contract, but that's sort of the bullshit we all have to deal with.
Old 06-28-12, 12:53 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
No SD or other expandable memory. Or does only Apple get slammed for doing that?
I'm assuming you're referring to me specifically since you quoted me. I've never slammed Apple for that and have never believed that was an essential feature for a tablet, especially as everything moves more into the cloud. The Android tablet I decided to spend $400 on last fall has no SD or expandable memory and I've never once needed it. When I said Google got it right, that includes what they chose to omit to keep costs down - specifically expandable local storage and rear camera, two things I've always felt are nearly useless on a tablet.
Old 06-28-12, 01:18 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by kefrank View Post
When I said Google got it right, that includes what they chose to omit to keep costs down - specifically expandable local storage and rear camera, two things I've always felt are nearly useless on a tablet.
I agree. Expandable storage is a "nice to have" but not necessary, and a rear camera (on a tablet) is utterly useless, IMO.
Old 06-28-12, 01:18 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
Just because they didn't do an all-in-one SOC doesn't mean that they went with the cheapest route. Cheaper route maybe, but even not all on the same chip, having all that be that small is still plenty expensive.


I still don't buy those BOM prices. What's your source?
The dual core cpu on the iPhone 4S cost $15. I can’t find a BOM for the recent s4 krait, but the Dinc chip had chip with gsm and cdma radios, wifi, bt, gps, gpu and at the time, it was $31.40. The N1 had a similar cost for cpu. Obviously these are single core chips, but at the time they were released, they were mid-high end.
http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone-4S-Carries-BOM-of-$188,-IHS-iSuppli-Teardown-Analysis-Reveals.aspx
http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/New...n-Reveals.aspx

Anyway, let's take a trip back to the first iPhone. Apple sold it off-contract (it was only available off-contract), so the MSRP wasn't "inflated" to make the subsidized price look better. Obviously Apple would want to sell this new item at a competitive price right? So what was the price? $600 for the 8GB model.

They quickly dropped the price to $400 after a few months, but Apple switch to the on-contract subsidized pricing for the next generation. Obviously selling at even $400 was too much for many consumers, and not enough for Apple.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...e#U.S._release

Next, let's look at the Nexus One. This was Google's attempt to bypass carriers and retailers and sell directly to consumers. Again, they'd want to offer a competitive price. So what was the price? $530. The phone flopped.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexus_one

Now granted, a lot of people point to it being online-only with limited customer support as being a major factor for its failure. However, Google didn't sell another phone directly until the Galaxy Nexus, and that was only after it was on the market for several months already. Obviously, those initial sales at the higher prices are important to the success of a phone.
I agree with you, people are much more likely to buy a lower priced phone on contract, that is just how people think, even if you could use it on a cheaper plan like tmo value plan, most people don’t think it through that way about the “overall 2 year cost”, more of the immediate cost. My complaint is that Verizon maintains the high unsubsidized price well after the phone is released.

The gs3 for Tmo on the value plan (no contract required) is $390. Of course, tmo might be subsidizing part of the cost, that is an unknown, but you can buy the phone, cancel the plan immediately with no etf. Yes, it is locked to tmo, but you can buy an unlock code on ebay for probably $25ish.


You said that it's far cheaper than "a similar post paid phone," but you didn't mention any similar post paid phone models. Most post-paid phones are better than it, and ones that are similar in features are free on-contract.
I would agree with that, but my point was that the exhibit ii is $200 “full retail price”, the htc rhyme, although slightly better, is $440 “full retail price”, but is free on contract. The lg enlighten is “lesser” than the exhibit ii, free on contract, but $330 “full retail price”


Verizon may be artificially keeping the "non-contract" price high, but they've repeatedly cut the on-contract pricing for it. So obviously their costs for the phone (i.e. what Samsung charges them for it) must have gone down.
Agreed.


For older phones, maybe the off-contract price on Verizon is kept too high. For newer phones, that initial high price is probably close to what it'd pull sans carrier (as can been seen by the prices in other countries for new phones).
agreed


You have the events reversed. On Monday, April 23, Verizon dropped the price of the Galaxy Nexus to $199 on contract. The next day, April 24, Google started selling their no-contract model for $399:
http://androidcommunity.com/verizon-...-199-20120423/
http://androidcommunity.com/unlocked...-399-20120424/


I was referring to the iPhone 4S, which is a world phone.
Ok, perhaps I miswrote, but that was what I meant to say, Verizon had it at $300 on April 22, dropped it to $200 on April 23, April 24, Google had it at $400 unlocked. $100 difference and 2 days between a subsidized on contract phone and a “full retail price” phone. They also went through the hassle of making a cdma only phone that was a "half" cycle into the 4 release anyway.
Old 06-28-12, 03:57 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by Deftones View Post
now you are putting words in my mouth. bottom line is many phones (android, blackberry) get dropped in price over time. those companies still make money on discounted sales of the phone. apple phones to not. that is apple keeping the prices artificially high, which allows them maximum profit. i'm not faulting apple for doing what they do. if people will pay that price, more power to them.
iPhone 3GS can be had for $0 on contract. iPhone 4 for $99. Those are lower prices. So...
Old 06-28-12, 03:59 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by RichC2 View Post
No, "artificially high" simply means Apple keeps the price high ($550) so people will go get contracts on em. Take the radios out and they have a much cheaper item (~ $199 iPod Touch). A HSPA+ Radio doesn't cost $350. That's artificially high.

Now sure you can go buy one for $199 on contract, but that's sort of the bullshit we all have to deal with.
That's different. If you're talking about out-of-contract prices, then I doubt you'll find one phone manufacturer that doesn't inflate those prices.

Which of course begs the question, are the prices actually inflated? If we think about this from a non-U.S. centric perspective, most phones sold throughout the world are sold unsubsidized. A 16GB off-contract iPhone 4S in the U.K. is £499, for instance. Is Apple really that uninterested in British sales?
Old 06-28-12, 04:35 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
iPhone 3GS can be had for $0 on contract. iPhone 4 for $99. Those are lower prices. So...
The only time I have noticed them drop is when a new model is announced.
Old 06-28-12, 04:54 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by D.Pham00 View Post
The only time I have noticed them drop is when a new model is announced.
That's how Apple operates, because they only release one new model a year.
Old 06-28-12, 08:41 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
iPhone 3GS can be had for $0 on contract. iPhone 4 for $99. Those are lower prices. So...
Yeah, totally a fair comparison. You know, picking a fucking phone that has been out like 2+ years (3GS) to something like a Rezound/Razr/etc.
Old 06-28-12, 08:55 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by Deftones View Post
Yeah, totally a fair comparison. You know, picking a fucking phone that has been out like 2+ years (3GS) to something like a Rezound/Razr/etc.
Why does this make you so angry?
Old 06-28-12, 09:34 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Anyone know if/when these will be sold in stores or other online outlets? I just went to pre-order the 16gb and its $32 for shipping and tax. That's insane.
Old 06-28-12, 09:35 PM
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Re: What's Google going to announce at I/O?

Originally Posted by Joeboo835 View Post
Anyone know if/when these will be sold in stores or other online outlets? I just went to pre-order the 16gb and its $32 for shipping and tax. That's insane.
I think Google said there's a chance that the Nexus 7 might show up in other stores, but not any time soon. The Play Store is going to be the only place for now.

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