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Old 06-19-12, 02:24 PM   #76
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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Originally Posted by fumanstan View Post
I'm surprised at people heavily questioning the performance of the Windows Pro 8 version; unless Intel comes out specifically with a new Ivy Bridge part this year to power the Surface, it seems clear that it will be a CULV i5 or i7 Ivy Bridge that is already appearing in Ultrabooks on the market today, and the chips that are in the new Macbook Air.

So unless you think the Macbook Air performance isn't up to par, i'm unsure why people would feel differently about the Surface.
Have they announced how much RAM will be available on the Pro tablet? That will be as important to many applications as CPU specs. When I use Photoshop, I frequently find the experience barely tolerable on my quad core i7 CPU with 8 GB of RAM. But then, I do a lot of very high-resolution HDR work, and also lots of high-volume processing (as in, hundreds of batch processed 10MP photos at a time).
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Old 06-19-12, 02:27 PM   #77
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

I'd guess that no one who does that level of editing would expect it to work on the Surface. The same way I'm sure you don't expect it to work on any current ultrabook.
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Old 06-19-12, 02:32 PM   #78
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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Have they announced how much RAM will be available on the Pro tablet? That will be as important to many applications as CPU specs. When I use Photoshop, I frequently find the experience barely tolerable on my quad core i7 CPU with 8 GB of RAM. But then, I do a lot of very high-resolution HDR work, and also lots of high-volume processing (as in, hundreds of batch processed 10MP photos at a time).
8GB is so little. I've got 64GB in one of our servers. Get with the times.
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Old 06-19-12, 02:32 PM   #79
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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Originally Posted by Goat3001 View Post
Don't let the Apple fanboys get you down, man.
But they're WRONG! They're so WRONG!!!!

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Originally Posted by boogieman03 View Post
I'm not putting words in your mouth. It's just the way it came off when you were responding to Matthew Chmiel on page 2. I could quote you each time you said something from that same post, but I really don't care/have the time. I'm not trying to pick a fight or start something.
It's cool. I re-read my replies to him and while I can understand that perspective, all I was really trying to say was that it's silly to think that Windows and Android tablets won't meet the same basic needs. He went on about portability, convenience, etc. and I was just saying, in my own way, that those specifics aren't special. They're expected, and there's no reason to believe MS or Google can't deliver those things.

I don't take any of this stuff too seriously, I assure you, but it's funny how people (on both sides of the fence) are so quick to declare their love for competing products in these kinds of threads. I've been guilty of it too, but it gets old quick. As I said... I don't love Microsoft. I have no reason to, and I'm relatively indifferent to all of these companies. I think Windows 8 is pretty great. That said, hating on every Microsoft announcement is SO 2000's... let's spend the 2010's hating on a company that deserves it, like RIM
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Old 06-19-12, 02:32 PM   #80
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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Originally Posted by RoboDad View Post
Have they announced how much RAM will be available on the Pro tablet? That will be as important to many applications as CPU specs. When I use Photoshop, I frequently find the experience barely tolerable on my quad core i7 CPU with 8 GB of RAM. But then, I do a lot of very high-resolution HDR work, and also lots of high-volume processing (as in, hundreds of batch processed 10MP photos at a time).
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I'd guess that no one who does that level of editing would expect it to work on the Surface. The same way I'm sure you don't expect it to work on any current ultrabook.
Exactly... not sure what the comparison to your desktop is for, as obviously an Ultrabook or laptop doesn't sound like it would meet your Photoshop needs anyway.

They haven't mentioned RAM, but I can't imagine it would be less then 4 GB. But that's a wild guess based on existing products.
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Old 06-19-12, 02:38 PM   #81
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

Why bother having 4GB of ram if it only can do Metro apps?

Will W7Phone apps work on Metro? If not, seems like it'd take a while for metro apps to be made.
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Old 06-19-12, 02:40 PM   #82
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

I've been using the consumer preview on my netbook and the app store already has a lot of availability. I'm pretty sure it's tied to the WP app store in some way. Either that or devs have been making apps for it for a while.
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Old 06-19-12, 02:41 PM   #83
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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Why bother having 4GB of ram if it only can do Metro apps?
I'm talking about the Surface for Windows 8 Pro, which theoretically can run all Windows applications like Photoshop, which was specifically mentioned.
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Old 06-19-12, 03:01 PM   #84
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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Will W7Phone apps work on Metro? If not, seems like it'd take a while for metro apps to be made.
Not exactly.
My limited understanding of that subject is that Windows Phone 8 (successor to WP7) and Windows RT share some sort of base code similar to iPhone iOS vs iPad iOS. So developers can create apps for both platforms if they want. I don't know what that means for existing WP7 apps, but I assume they'd need to be updated to ensure full functionality with WP8 and Windows RT (ie: Metro).
The Windows Phone Summit starts this week, so I'm sure those questions will be answered or somewhat sparingly addressed.
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Old 06-19-12, 03:07 PM   #85
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

The consensus from what Microsoft has told developers is that WP8 will be built on RT. They have emphatically stated several times that apps built for RT tablets will run on WP8 unmodified (aside from screen resolution and aspect ratio issues, which are presumably going to be something that developers can handle in a similar fashion to iOS universal apps).
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Old 06-19-12, 03:13 PM   #86
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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Exactly... not sure what the comparison to your desktop is for, as obviously an Ultrabook or laptop doesn't sound like it would meet your Photoshop needs anyway.
It became relevant the moment Microsoft said Photoshop would be usable on the Surface. I would think it is obvious to most people by now that Microsoft is pushing the PC in the direction of the Surface. They may not be as aggressive about it today, but over the next 2-3 years or so they will be. They already tried to pull desktop development capabilities out of their free development tools, forcing many people to develop for Metro only. Fortunately, they backpeddled on that one after the huge outcry from developers.
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Old 06-19-12, 03:23 PM   #87
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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I'd still like them to make a win8 pc like the raspberry pi but with much faster specs.
Here ya go.
Intel NUC (Next Unit of Computing)
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Old 06-19-12, 03:41 PM   #88
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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It became relevant the moment Microsoft said Photoshop would be usable on the Surface.
It's not relevant at all; Photoshop would be usable; as usable as it would be on most existing mid range laptops or current Ultrabooks today based on the few details that Microsoft has provided so far. It makes absolutely zero sense to bring up how to Surface compares to an obviously more powerful desktop. If that's too weak for you, then that's not an issue with the Surface; its an issue with every $1000 laptop out there.

You pretty much went from questioning whether it would perform much better then a netbook, to criticizing that it wouldn't be able to match the performance of your desktop. I understand being skeptical because of the lack of concrete details, but it seems like you're just fishing for more reasons to dislike the Surface. Questioning the release time frame, lack of tech specs, battery life, etc is one thing, being all over the place with your performance expectations just seems weird.
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Old 06-19-12, 03:44 PM   #89
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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Originally Posted by RoboDad View Post
It became relevant the moment Microsoft said Photoshop would be usable on the Surface. I would think it is obvious to most people by now that Microsoft is pushing the PC in the direction of the Surface. They may not be as aggressive about it today, but over the next 2-3 years or so they will be. They already tried to pull desktop development capabilities out of their free development tools, forcing many people to develop for Metro only. Fortunately, they backpeddled on that one after the huge outcry from developers.
When the hell did that happen?
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Old 06-19-12, 04:01 PM   #90
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

As long as this new tablet runs MS-DOS, I'll be happy. Seriously. Gotta remember your roots...
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Old 06-19-12, 04:49 PM   #91
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

I like the look of the Surface Pro a lot. I can see it replacing my laptop, finally (a touchscreen convertable running win7)...and if the Metro app selection gets good enough, it could replace my Android tab - a Toshiba Thrive.

The keyboard cover and built-in thin kickstand are just good design. Stylus support is big for me - glad to see it there on the pro.

I especially like the inclusion of full size USB - one of the things I like the most about my Thrive.
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Old 06-19-12, 05:21 PM   #92
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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When the hell did that happen?
They announced it around a month ago. They said that Visual Studio Express starting with version 11 would no longer support development of desktop applications, only Metro apps. The outcry was so loud, and so negative, that last week they admitted that it was a really bad idea (at least for now), and reversed their decision.
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Old 06-19-12, 05:35 PM   #93
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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The keyboard cover and built-in thin kickstand are just good design. Stylus support is big for me - glad to see it there on the pro.
I really have mixed feelings on this part of the design. At first glance, it looks really nice, but it really complicates things if someone wanted to put their tablet in a case (other than a simple slipcover style case).

I also have my doubts about how stable it will be on my lap, but we really won't know more about that for a while.
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Old 06-19-12, 07:32 PM   #94
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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Originally Posted by RoboDad View Post
They announced it around a month ago. They said that Visual Studio Express starting with version 11 would no longer support development of desktop applications, only Metro apps. The outcry was so loud, and so negative, that last week they admitted that it was a really bad idea (at least for now), and reversed their decision.
Meh, when I see something like that from MS, it's usually some imbecile over there making a decision they shouldn't be. They really are a bunch of hostile silos.
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Old 06-19-12, 07:38 PM   #95
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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Originally Posted by RoboDad View Post
They announced it around a month ago. They said that Visual Studio Express starting with version 11 would no longer support development of desktop applications, only Metro apps. The outcry was so loud, and so negative, that last week they admitted that it was a really bad idea (at least for now), and reversed their decision.
Meh, when I see something like that from MS, it's usually some imbecile over there making a decision they shouldn't be. They really are a bunch of hostile silos.
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Old 06-19-12, 09:36 PM   #96
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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Meh, when I see something like that from MS, it's usually some imbecile over there making a decision they shouldn't be. They really are a bunch of hostile silos.
Possibly, but I got the impression that this idea originated with Sinofsky, and the VS team was just doing as they were instructed.
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Old 06-20-12, 03:05 AM   #97
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

I think if Apple had come out with something like the Surface Pro instead of the new iPad recently released, a lot of people would have said, oooooh, what a genius idea.

I think the biggest drawbacks of the Surface Pro are price and the relative lack of apps.
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Old 06-20-12, 08:19 AM   #98
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

I have increasing amounts of faith in MS.

The first step was the complete success of the Xbox 360 which has comprehensively beaten the PS3 at this point. I'm very interested to see what they do next with this brand.

The next step was buying a Zune HD. The proto-Metro interface on the Zune was a thing of beauty and at the time was the best interface MS had ever designed. It remains aesthetically and intuitively superior to iOS, IMO (I own a couple Macs, iPads and iPods, so I truly love Apple products as well and feel comfortable saying this). Also, I really like Zunepass which is one of the more underrated pieces of software/services currently on the market (I shifted to Rdio only because it works on Android, it's not as good as Zunepass in several key ways).

Seeing MS realize that they had something with real potential on their hands with the ZuneHD interface and deciding to make it central to their strategy was the next step in my increasing faith in the company. MS is showing that they're willing to take a very large risk with Windows 8. Also, they're showing that they have good design sense and taste, always a huge weakness for the company and a very important distinction these days. Ditching something inferior like the Kin immediately after launch is another recent example of the company's agility. For a company typically seen to be a lumbering, tasteless monolith they're showing a lot of energy at this point.

Now comes the Surface. The ideas it represents are compelling to me: I don't want a computer but I find the iPad to be a bit of a toy (a great toy, but a toy nevertheless). Many, many questions remain of course. Pricing, battery life, apps/ecosystem etc. Will the interface be smooth and fluid (this is hugely important)? What will third-party W8 tablets look like? Will enterprises adopt W8? We'll see.

I want MS to succeed. I think that they are doing a lot of interesting things right now. They have the cash and engineering talent on hand to make some noise. Android is getting a lot better with ICS (I have an Evo 4G LTE) and iOS is not going to sit still, but I think that MS has a real shot in the mobile space. Android remains a bit of a fragmented mess. iOS hasn't significantly evolved since launch (IMO). It's not too much of an overstatement to say that Apple seems a bit complacent compared to MS at this point. That's a somewhat amazing turn of events to me.
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Old 06-20-12, 09:08 AM   #99
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

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I think if Apple had come out with something like the Surface Pro instead of the new iPad recently released, a lot of people would have said, oooooh, what a genius idea.

I think the biggest drawbacks of the Surface Pro are price and the relative lack of apps.
If past history is any indication, had Apple held a press conference on something like the Surface Pro, we definitely would have been told the price and seen apps.

And it wouldn't have had USB ports, two different architectures, no talk of battery life, etc. Many people like Apple products because they don't make these kinds of mistakes (and I believe they are mistakes) with their offerings.
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Old 06-20-12, 10:23 AM   #100
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Re: Microsoft Surface Tablet

Interesting article from Fortune:

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/...ith-microsoft/
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