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Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

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Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Old 03-12-11, 10:09 AM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Sorry but everyone complaining about Apple's 30% fee to periodicals/dailies: please provide links to your posts calling Amazon names when they were charging 70% fee to periodicals/dailies on the Kindle or STFU.
Apple's new guidelines are fiercely anti-competitive.
OK, please provide me with links to your posts about how anti-compatative Amazon is who while allowing third party apps on the Kindle allows no competing book readers.
credit card companies (not exactly paragons of morally good behavior) receive only a 2.5 percent fee per transaction.
OK, please provide me with a link to your post criticizing Google for charging 10% which after all is 4 times the fee of the evil credit card companies?

Apple's not putting the rules in place for consumer protection; they're doing it so that in-app media purchases/subscriptions on their platform are competitively priced, even though Apple is charging near 10 times more than almost any other payment processor.
Amazon is currently also charging 30% (down from their previous 70%) and has the same price matching rules in place. Of course Apple is doing it for their own benefit, but it absolutely represents consumer protection to iPad owners -- they will be secure in their knowledge when buying on the iPad that they are not missing out on a better deal elsewhere or being outright fleeced. And that is necessary because *before* any of these rules from Apple came into effect, some publications (like The Economist) were providing each issue on the iPad free to existing print subscribers, while plenty of other were charging full cover price to their existing subscribers.

Edit: And BTW I keep bringing up Amazon, because right now the Kindle is Apple's main competitor in eBooks/newspapers/magazines -- not Android.

Last edited by Ted Todorov; 03-12-11 at 10:14 AM.
Old 03-12-11, 12:13 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

They're both/all charging way too much. Done and done.
Old 03-12-11, 12:55 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov View Post
Sorry but everyone complaining about Apple's 30% fee to periodicals/dailies: please provide links to your posts calling Amazon names when they were charging 70% fee to periodicals/dailies on the Kindle or STFU.
It was 65%, and it was for self-published material. I highly doubt major publishers were getting that little of a cut:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/ma...q4-t.html?_r=1

Also, when they had that pricing scheme, the publishers could price their product accordingly. If they wanted it to be higher on Amazon, they could. It's when Amazon lowered it to a 30% cut that prices had to be competitive:
http://www.businessinsider.com/henry...-option-2010-1

Finally, Amazon charges that because they offer a service. Amazon has to handle the licensing, the database, the search, the uptime, the bandwidth, the payment processing, and the DRM for the books for their customers and for the content providers. For that they charge a 30% fee. That's fine. Note that nobody's complaining about iBooks doing the same, in terms of fees and the service it provides. However, now Apple wants to charge Amazon for just payment processing, while Amazon still handles everything else about the service.

For Apple, it's a good deal. They get 30% of any book sold, whether it's on Kindle or iBooks, and Kindle has to be both competitively priced with iBooks and not more expensive on iOS. Meanwhile, Apple doesn't have to handle anything other than payment for Kindle, meaning they get a larger profit from it than they likely do with iBooks. However, for Amazon it's a horrible deal, since Apple gets 30%, publishers/authors get 70%, leaving Amazon with 0% of the sale from ebooks/subscriptions on iOS, even though they're providing the actual service.

OK, please provide me with links to your posts about how anti-compatative Amazon is who while allowing third party apps on the Kindle allows no competing book readers.
The difference is that the Kindle was and is sold/marketed primarily as an eReader device, specifically for Kindle books. There was never, ever, any indication that the Kindle would be open to third-party ebook formats.

In contrast, the iPhone has been sold for the last approx 4 years as a smartphone, one that could run a large number of various apps. One of them was the Kindle, which was out on iOS before Apple released its own ebook app. People expect their iPhone and such to provide access to a wide range of services, instead of being a largely one-service/one-function device like the Kindle. Nobody seriously buys a Kindle for the apps, while for Apple, its apps are one of the main marketable features of their devices.

OK, please provide me with a link to your post criticizing Google for charging 10% which after all is 4 times the fee of the evil credit card companies?
The difference is that Google's service is completely optional. Amazon won't have to change their app to work with Google's service if they don't want to. Also, Google's service is cross-platform capable and handles user authorization across those platforms, in addition to just payment. And compared to Apple's 30% fee for less service, 10% sounds incredibly reasonable.


Amazon is currently also charging 30% (down from their previous 70%) and has the same price matching rules in place. Of course Apple is doing it for their own benefit, but it absolutely represents consumer protection to iPad owners -- they will be secure in their knowledge when buying on the iPad that they are not missing out on a better deal elsewhere or being outright fleeced.
It's only beneficial to iPad owners if those services and content stay on iOS after the rule change.

And that is necessary because *before* any of these rules from Apple came into effect, some publications (like The Economist) were providing each issue on the iPad free to existing print subscribers, while plenty of other were charging full cover price to their existing subscribers.
The new rules won't help that particular situation, as per the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021807943.html
Apple cites only one exemption to this new policy: Subscriptions that come free with the purchase of something else, such as a print subscription to a newspaper.
Publishers don't have to provide the iPad version for free. They could still charge full cover price for the electronic version, provided the electronic version isn't on, say, Kindle for less.

And BTW I keep bringing up Amazon, because right now the Kindle is Apple's main competitor in eBooks/newspapers/magazines -- not Android.
The problem is that the rule changes affect more than just written works. It affects music and video services as well.
Old 03-12-11, 01:23 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

^^ this post really shows your anti-apple bias. You have an excuse for everything everyone else does yet slam Apple.
Old 03-12-11, 01:28 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

To be fair, many many companies who have apps on iOS have complained about Apple's new rules.

And someone can probably correct me on this, but I remember reading somewhere that the DoJ or some other governing body was looking into Apple's new rules.
Old 03-12-11, 01:36 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Originally Posted by Suprmallet View Post
To be fair, many many companies who have apps on iOS have complained about Apple's new rules.

And someone can probably correct me on this, but I remember reading somewhere that the DoJ or some other governing body was looking into Apple's new rules.
Sure folks complain all the time about fees. That isn't anything new, but I bet the the vast majority of the 300k apps (and their authors) are fine with the fees since it's making lots of folks rich. I'm sure those angry birds guys are ok with it.
Old 03-12-11, 02:25 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Originally Posted by Chrisedge View Post
^^ this post really shows your anti-apple bias. You have an excuse for everything everyone else does yet slam Apple.
I don't think I have an excuse for everything any other company does. However, I do think it's important to make distinctions between how other companies are handling similar situtions (and how they're not that similar) and how Apple is.

I'm also not anti-Apple, at least in the sense that I'll criticize everything they do. I actually came to their defense when people were complaining about the lack of a retina screen on the iPad 2, or that it wasn't cheaper. When people were worried that the iPad 2 would only have 256MB of RAM, I disagreed.

Also, I've never been critical of Apple's fees in the past. I've never criticized the fees Apple gets from iTunes for music or video, nor from iBooks or even the App Store for selling apps. The difference being that those were actual services Apple was providing, ones that went above and beyond simple payment processing.

I didn't even criticize Apple's ad platform for iOS, which received criticism from others intially:
http://googlemobileads.blogspot.com/...f-service.html

Originally Posted by Chrisedge View Post
Sure folks complain all the time about fees. That isn't anything new, but I bet the the vast majority of the 300k apps (and their authors) are fine with the fees since it's making lots of folks rich. I'm sure those angry birds guys are ok with it.
There's a difference between App developers like Rovio (who make Angry Birds) that make money from their software, and content providers like Amazon, who make money from the service they provide. And there's a difference between the services Apple provides to both. But there's not a difference in the cut that Apple wants from both. And that doesn't seem right.
Old 03-12-11, 03:14 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Jay, since you don't want to believe Amazon was charging 70% -- here you go:
Dallas Morning News To Senate: Amazon Kindle Is Not A Business Model For Newspapers
He told the Senate: “The Kindle, which I think is a marvelous device, the best deal Amazon will give the Dallas Morning News—and we’ve negotiated this up to the last two weeks—they want 70 percent of the subscriptions revenue. I get 30 percent, they get 70 percent. On top of that they have said we get the right to republish your intellectual property to any portable device. Now is that a business model that is going to work for newspapers? I get 30 percent and they get the right to license my content to any portable device—not just ones made by Amazon? That, to me, is not a model.”
Originally Posted by Jay G.
However, now Apple wants to charge Amazon for just payment processing, while Amazon still handles everything else about the service.
You keep saying that Apple isn't providing a service. If that were indeed the case, and that 30% fee is so bad, all the eBook middle men as well as the newspaper and magazine publishers have a very simple solution:
They can write iPad clients in HTML 5. The iPad provides the best best mobile HTML 5 platform bar none. HTML 5 apps can have desktop icons with unlimited local storage that work fine with the device off-line. Sure it is not as fast or powerful as C/Obj-C native apps, but we are not talking 3D video games here, just simple readers. Apple has no control over HTML 5 apps, the apps can have all the SUBSCRIBE buttons they want and Apple will collect 0%. And once Google gets off their butts and improves HTML5 on Honeycomb/Android to catch up with iOS, those same apps will even work on Android!

So why has not a single eBook company or magazine or newspaper done it? Not one? Well, guess what, it turns out Apple does provide a service. They provide the world's most valuable storefront, the App store that everyone wants to be in. They provide access to 200 million plus credit card accounts/customers that currently in the App Store/iTunes. This service alone (and there are plenty of others) turns out to be worth at least 30% -- otherwise, instead of complaining they would all be busy coding HTML 5.
Old 03-12-11, 03:36 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Originally Posted by Suprmallet View Post
To be fair, many many companies who have apps on iOS have complained about Apple's new rules.

And someone can probably correct me on this, but I remember reading somewhere that the DoJ or some other governing body was looking into Apple's new rules.
Two who haven't complained, miraculously enough, are Netflix and Amazon.

I will certainly bet anything that come July, past Apple's new rules deadline, Netflix will be alive and well on iOS devices. Amazon is a more interesting case, but I'd say some sort of deal is more likely that not. As Gruber has pointed out, there are purely technical obstacles for something like the Kindle: the current iOS in-app purchase API provides for a maximum of fewer than 4000 catalog items. Kindle easily has 100K+. Something's got to give on that front. Maybe Amazon will end up going the HTML 5 route -- they are the only ones besides Apple with plenty of credit cards on file.

As for DoJ/FTC complaints, for any anti-trust action to be taken against Apple there must be an identifiable monopoly. That is a problem.

First Android fans are claiming that Android has surpassed iOS. So iOS can't be a monopoly. You could argue that the iPad with its 90%+ end user (as opposed to channel stuffing) market share is a monopoly, but you could only do that if you pretended the Kindle didn't exist. Amazon has sold millions of Kindles and they are clearly Apple's main eBook competitor. No monopoly there either. You could argue that Apple has a monopoly on the only users actually willing to pay for content. That would at least be closer to the truth (although still false, see Kindle above), but not something anyone could claim with a straight face while also threatening to bolt to Android.

So all the DoJ stuff is pure hot air, there is no case.
Old 03-12-11, 04:10 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Does anyone know if there is a way to transfer save games from my iPhone 4 to my iPad? Mostly interested in Infinity Blade, but also noticed that all my "current" multiplayer games in Carcassone are from months ago. I remember having that issue when I went from my iPhone 3GS to the 4 but can't remember what I did to correct it.
Old 03-12-11, 04:22 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov View Post
As for DoJ/FTC complaints, for any anti-trust action to be taken against Apple there must be an identifiable monopoly. That is a problem.

First Android fans are claiming that Android has surpassed iOS. So iOS can't be a monopoly. You could argue that the iPad with its 90%+ end user (as opposed to channel stuffing) market share is a monopoly, but you could only do that if you pretended the Kindle didn't exist. Amazon has sold millions of Kindles and they are clearly Apple's main eBook competitor. No monopoly there either. You could argue that Apple has a monopoly on the only users actually willing to pay for content. That would at least be closer to the truth (although still false, see Kindle above), but not something anyone could claim with a straight face while also threatening to bolt to Android.

So all the DoJ stuff is pure hot air, there is no case.
I didn't say anti-trust motions were being filed against Apple. But it's worth noting that this new set of rules has garnered the interest of government bodies who investigate such things.
Old 03-12-11, 06:43 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Some points.

Apple is the leader, they control the market, at least in tablets, where the main issue is. Also, they had some of these rules, but never really enforced them, and they introduced some new, more strict just recently.

There has been an "uproar" but like most things Apple, sometimes is most the hype, both positive and negative.

But I do believe that Apple will need to clarify some of these rules or they can risk continue being the leader in the tablet sector.
Old 03-12-11, 08:03 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

So for the few here that purchased an iPad2, what do you think?
Old 03-12-11, 08:19 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

3-4 weeks now shipping from Apple. It is like Apple just prints money.
Old 03-12-11, 08:42 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

I went out to buy a 32GB WiFi iPad today, but Target, Best Buy, and the Apple Store were all out stock. Might order online through the EPP store for our company and get a very small discount.
Old 03-12-11, 08:42 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov View Post
Jay, since you don't want to believe Amazon was charging 70% -- here you go:
Dallas Morning News To Senate: Amazon Kindle Is Not A Business Model For Newspapers
I didn't know that, so I researched a little more, and found this wrinkle:
http://gizmodo.com/#!5244171/amazon-...e-distribution
According to a reliable source in the know, The New Yorker's Kindle split is divided 33% New Yorker, 33% Amazon, and 33% wireless carrier.
The Kindle has built in "free" 3G data, so it's not surprising that the carrier is getting a cut. If you combine the Amazon + carrier cut, you get 66%, near the 65% Amazon said it was getting for self publishers, with Amazon paying the carrier out of its cut. I think the DMN guy was just rounding numbers for dramatic reasons.

Also, if you look at the new revenue split wording, it's phrased like this:
http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-...magazines.html
Amazon said late Monday that starting on December 1, publishers will earn 70 percent of the retail price minus delivery costs for each newspaper or magazine sold in the Kindle store.
Amazon basically pushed the cell costs onto the publisher, which means that purchases over Kindle's 3G likely give publishers the same 30-35% net that they did before.

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov View Post
You keep saying that Apple isn't providing a service. If that were indeed the case, and that 30% fee is so bad, all the eBook middle men as well as the newspaper and magazine publishers have a very simple solution:
They can write iPad clients in HTML 5.
At least one developer so far, Readability, has gone that route after their app was rejected over the new rules.
http://downloadsquad.switched.com/20...ple-app-store/
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/readab...o-follow/45910


However, HTML 5 isn't going to work for services like Rhapsody, Pandora, Netflix, or Amazon due to the lack of DRM. Some of them could manage with a Flash-based app, but Apple doesn't allow Flash on their devices.

iOS does provide DRM to apps, which is why so many of these services went this way. Also, I'm not sure, but does HTML 5 web apps on iOS allow for multitasking in iOS, like Pandora, iLike, and Rhapsody would need?

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov View Post
Well, guess what, it turns out Apple does provide a service. They provide the world's most valuable storefront, the App store that everyone wants to be in.
The companies do prefer to have their apps in the store, even if HTML 5 is a viable option (which it isn't for many). When a typical reader wants to add an app to their iOS device, they're going to go to the App Store on their device or in iTunes. If their search for, say, "ebooks" doesn't return, say, "Kindle" as an app, those users aren't going to think of it as an option, even if an HTML 5 "app" is available on the web. So there's advantages to putting an app in the store, but that's already covered by the App Store fees. The new fees have nothing to do with providing apps in the app store, but revolve around the content those apps provide, and Apple now wanting a cut of that as well.


Originally Posted by Ted Todorov View Post
Two who haven't complained, miraculously enough, are Netflix and Amazon.
They're giant corporations, they typically don't comment. Amazon never even confirmed or denied the DMN comment. Also, they're likely in negotiations with Apple regarding these rules, so it wouldn't be prudent of them to make any public comments that could potentially damage those negotiations.

I will certainly bet anything that come July, past Apple's new rules deadline, Netflix will be alive and well on iOS devices.
It will likely still be on iOS, but it will be interesting to see why it's still on the device. Apple may back off on some of the rule changes, like they did with online ads. Or, ironically, Netflix could circumvent the new rules by taking a step backwards and kill the instant-only subscription, then claim that watch-instantly is a free feature of the physical disc delivery service.

As for DoJ/FTC complaints, for any anti-trust action to be taken against Apple there must be an identifiable monopoly. That is a problem.
I didn't bring up antitrust, and don't really feel like discussing it. My opinion isn't so much that Apple is abusing its position as it's just making a bad move, and may have conflicts of interest due to its own content delivery services.
Old 03-12-11, 10:01 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Originally Posted by The Cow View Post
So for the few here that purchased an iPad2, what do you think?
I got the 16GB WiFi. Picked it up at the local college bookstore. I placed a pre-order last week so they were holding it for me. Lucky, because a lot of people were waiting. And they had only gotten one of this model.

So far, I love it. Only had it a day and I'm not sure how I lived without it. Having a lot of fun with the apps. Flipboard is awesome.

You can start playing with it right out of the box. Very easy to use. Simple interface. I've shown it to relatives that have very limited computer knowledge, and within a few minutes they're zooming around like pros.

This is my first iPad/Tablet/Touch Screen device. So I don't really have anything to compare it to. But the device seems very responsive. As a new user, it's almost too responsive. I'm often opening links or swiping pages by accident. I'm sure I just have to get use to it.

The cameras are unimpressive. Reminds me of previous gen camera phones. I guess it's ok if you don't have a real camera. The only time I would use it is for the Facetime. But my first impression of that front VGA Facetime camera is pretty low rez.

I like the $40 cover. Snaps on very easily and puts the device to sleep when closed. Doesn't fold over as simply as the video made it look. Obviously that person had been practicing. But it's still pretty cool.
Old 03-13-11, 10:31 AM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Originally Posted by The Cow View Post
So for the few here that purchased an iPad2, what do you think?
I had to "upgrade" to 64gb instead of 32gb (2 black AT&T models). But it's my first iPad so cant compare to anything other than my iphone4. It's very thin and light enough to hold easily. I bought the smart cover and I use it as kinda a handle when it's in the triangle shape on the back or lay it flat across the back if I set it down flat on something. Websites arent quite as sharp as I'd like when viewing text but it still looks good.

Very zippy and faster than my iPhone. I don't have any videos or music on it yet as I am away from my main computer with iTunes but photos I've grabbed from my flickr account look great.

I downloaded Garage Band and am gonna go pick up an iRig today for my guitar. Fooling around with that...very impressed and better than the osx version! I had already downloaded iMovie for my phone so grabbed that but haven't done anything with it yet. The HD camera (rear facing) looks a little grainier than the iPhone one, but I wont be shooting too much with it since I have iPhone and a P&S with me most of the time anyways.

Impressed but knew I would be.
Old 03-13-11, 10:37 AM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Thanks guys!.

Chris, I'm really curious about the iRig know and how that works for ya. I hadn't hear of that, but it's something I'm very interested in after reading up on it. I may have to pick one of those up.
Old 03-13-11, 12:51 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Originally Posted by Chrisedge View Post
I had to "upgrade" to 64gb instead of 32gb (2 black AT&T models). But it's my first iPad so cant compare to anything other than my iphone4. It's very thin and light enough to hold easily. I bought the smart cover and I use it as kinda a handle when it's in the triangle shape on the back or lay it flat across the back if I set it down flat on something. Websites arent quite as sharp as I'd like when viewing text but it still looks good.

Very zippy and faster than my iPhone. I don't have any videos or music on it yet as I am away from my main computer with iTunes but photos I've grabbed from my flickr account look great.

I downloaded Garage Band and am gonna go pick up an iRig today for my guitar. Fooling around with that...very impressed and better than the osx version! I had already downloaded iMovie for my phone so grabbed that but haven't done anything with it yet. The HD camera (rear facing) looks a little grainier than the iPhone one, but I wont be shooting too much with it since I have iPhone and a P&S with me most of the time anyways.

Impressed but knew I would be.


What iPhone model do you have?
Old 03-13-11, 01:54 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Originally Posted by BigDaddy View Post
What iPhone model do you have?
iPhone 4 (it's in my post )

Edited to add:

WOW digging the iRig...I have a Pandora Box (v5) that I travel with but between Ampitube's free stuff and Garage Band not sure how much I will be using it going forward. Setup was easy and it sounds great in both their program and GB.

Last edited by Chrisedge; 03-13-11 at 02:56 PM.
Old 03-13-11, 03:10 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

ipad40 at Squaretrade for 40% an iPad 2 warranty. 3 years for the 64 gig WiFi with accidental damage protection came to $108. Worth every penny. My Kindle goes to me everywhere because it's under warranty. It would get much less use without it. Heck it's rare the day I don't drop my phone (<3 Otterbox).
Old 03-13-11, 03:29 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Warranties won't help you much when your iPad 2 is stolen in a Craigslist deal gone bad.
Old 03-13-11, 06:19 PM
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Old 03-13-11, 07:41 PM
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Re: Are you getting an iPad? (Part 2)

Originally Posted by GatorDeb View Post
ipad40 at Squaretrade for 40% an iPad 2 warranty. 3 years for the 64 gig WiFi with accidental damage protection came to $108. Worth every penny. My Kindle goes to me everywhere because it's under warranty. It would get much less use without it. Heck it's rare the day I don't drop my phone (<3 Otterbox).
Thanks for the heads up. I also got the 3 years for $108. Now I don't have to worry about accidents. Interesting that it's the same price for every model.

The coupon is only good until 3/14.

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