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I'm now a Win2K user

Old 12-31-00, 01:04 PM
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For the most part I like it. I've disabled personalized menus, fading manus, and cursor shodows. I've also Applied service pack 1. Is there anything else I should do to make it a more enjoyable OS.

3 major problems I have with it (some are not MS's falt):
* The digital out on my SBLive works, but not with WinDVD or PowerDVD (which means I'm forced to use my H+ for DD or DTS).
* My Rage Fury Pro drivers don't allow me to capture at 352x240 (NTSC VCD standard).
* The drivers for my SCSI card seem flaky (only ones available are those that came with Win2K). I have to have a CD un my burner (last in the SCSI chain) at startup in order for the SCSI bus to be used. That means that what the SCSI bus is unusable, anything that scans drives hangs. Win98, Linux, and BeOS have no problems. This may be enough to get me to get a new SCSI card.

I haven't used my scanner or burner yet to see how well that works (or not). I do think I like it better than NT4 though.

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Old 12-31-00, 02:42 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jason Northrup:
3 major problems I have with it (some are not MS's falt):
<HR>


* The digital out on my SBLive works, but not with WinDVD or PowerDVD (which means I'm forced to use my H+ for DD or DTS).

Actually, this is MS's fault. They are not passing DD and DTS in the OS. SP2 may fix it. I've heard reports of some success by beta testers.

* My Rage Fury Pro drivers don't allow me to capture at 352x240 (NTSC VCD standard).

Are you using the W2K drivers that came with the OS? Sometimes that's all there is for ATI. Check ATI's web site for newer ones if you haven't, but their driver support is a complete joke.

* The drivers for my SCSI card seem flaky (only ones available are those that came with Win2K). I have to have a CD un my burner (last in the SCSI chain) at startup in order for the SCSI bus to be used. That means that what the SCSI bus is unusable, anything that scans drives hangs. Win98, Linux, and BeOS have no problems. This may be enough to get me to get a new SCSI card.

You might check that your SCSI card's BIOS knows that your burner has removable media and make sure you don't have it set as a bootable device both in the SCSI card BIOS and the motherboard BIOS.
Old 12-31-00, 04:32 PM
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- you don't want to know what I am thinking
Old 12-31-00, 05:04 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by X:
Are you using the W2K drivers that came with the OS? Sometimes that's all there is for ATI. Check ATI's web site for newer ones if you haven't, but their driver support is a complete joke.
<HR>

The only drivers available are the ATI beta drivers. None were supplied by MS.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by X:
You might check that your SCSI card's BIOS knows that your burner has removable media and make sure you don't have it set as a bootable device both in the SCSI card BIOS and the motherboard BIOS.
<HR>

I don't have a bootable SCSI card, so that's not the problem. The reason I think it is specific to Win2K (or the Win2K drivers) is because of the fact that my other OSs don't have a problem with it.

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Old 12-31-00, 05:04 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by 4KRG:
- you don't want to know what I am thinking
<HR>



Yes I do. Tell me.


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Old 12-31-00, 05:29 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jason Northrup:
Originally posted by X:
You might check that your SCSI card's BIOS knows that your burner has removable media and make sure you don't have it set as a bootable device both in the SCSI card BIOS and the motherboard BIOS.



I don't have a bootable SCSI card, so that's not the problem. The reason I think it is specific to Win2K (or the Win2K drivers) is because of the fact that my other OSs don't have a problem with it.
<HR>


Another note on this:
My DVD-ROM is also on the SCSI and it doesn't matter if there's anything in the drive or not, just the CD-R. I have tried every combination on this.

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Old 12-31-00, 06:04 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jason Northrup:
I don't have a bootable SCSI card, so that's not the problem. The reason I think it is specific to Win2K (or the Win2K drivers) is because of the fact that my other OSs don't have a problem with it.

Another note on this:
My DVD-ROM is also on the SCSI and it doesn't matter if there's anything in the drive or not, just the CD-R. I have tried every combination on this.
<HR>


Well, the only time I've seen a removable device hang and look for media it would eventually gave up and continue loading. The OS just looked for a device for a long time -- like 5+ minutes for NT4. It seems there should be some sort of properties setting for the CD-R in W2K that could help. And I think 4KRG would say get an Adaptec card and I would too if you continue to have problems.

Have you checked the MS knowledgebase yet?
Old 12-31-00, 06:17 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by X:
And I think 4KRG would say get an Adaptec card
<HR>


That is part of what I was thinking, can you guess......
Old 12-31-00, 06:24 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by 4KRG:
That is part of what I was thinking, can you guess......
<HR>


"Doctor - it hurts when I move my arm like this"
"Don't do that"

Were you going to suggest using the OS's that it works with?
Old 12-31-00, 07:02 PM
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Well, I thought I had my SCSI problem fixed, but I don't. When I first discoved the problem, I though that maybe I wasn't terminating the end of the internal SCSI chain, but dismissed that idea when I realized everything was fine in the other OSes. It turns out that I wasn't terminating but it has only helped about 5%.

As it stands now (and did before) I can read from my SCSI drives (DVD and CD-R) and can scan. I can't burn CDs though.

I think I may go ahead and get a new SCSI card, but I want input as to what I should get. I'm going to start a new thread for that one.

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Old 12-31-00, 11:22 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by X:
"Doctor - it hurts when I move my arm like this"
"Don't do that"

Were you going to suggest using the OS's that it works with?
<HR>


NOT EVERYTHING IN THE F_N WORLD WORKS TOGETHER



If you want to run a professional operating system, your hardware should be up to it. The win2k hardware compat list is a good place to start, but realize even it is not perfect. This stuff is not as 'boxed' as MS and hardware manufacturers would have you believe. Do not run hardware that is more than 6 months older than your OS (...uhummmunm... rage fury), and in turn do not run hardware that is years NEWER than your OS, it never works right for obvious reasons (well reasons obvious to some of us ).

I can not believe I am even going into this, but the reason people have this perception of Apple being easy and reliable is Apple tightly controlled the hardware for years. NO CLONES, very few pieces that could be added, each piece that could be added was ungodly expensive because of the testing Apple forced them through. This closed or tightly watched hardware made Apple appear to be something they weren't when compared to PC's

The PC world has never been like this!!!

Hardware vs Software is a crap shoot unless you reseach it properly.

Hardware ranges from crap to pretty damn good, price is USUALLY directly related to where your hardware falls in this scale.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR EVERY PIECE OF HARDWARE TO WORK WITH EVERY OTHER UNDER EVERY OS.

Too many variables and too many hands in the cookie jar making changes and tweaks and cutting costs.

Jason - this is not all directed at your comments, just a general rant.

But your post title should really read, I was experimenting/researching with win2k and here is what I found

Run the proper hardware and your Sh_T will be fine. Or suffer through with what you have and understand that you have not approached it right, not that it is MS fault or someone elses fault. It is really just win2k is sensitive to hardware, much like NT was.

Here is another tip for you, don't ever switch hard drive controlers with win2k until you read the MS Q article on the subject. Plug and Play in win2k does not start until AFTER the kernel has loaded, this means the hard drive must be readable with the asved driver before boot.

2000 showing lt's NT roots, kind of like a bad dye job. I mention this, because I know it is where you are headed next (and I can hear the complaining form here)
Old 01-01-01, 12:13 AM
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4KRG, I'm too lazy right now to make quotes of some of your replies, so hopefully you can follow along okay.

The Rage Fury Pro wasn't released until February or March of 2000 (about the same time as Win2K, also not long before I got it). The Win2K drivers seem really solid even though they are only beta. My only problem whith them is that I can't select the source of the capture as 352x240. Other than that they are fine. It seems like ATI has been really lazy with this card. I was on beta drivers for 6 months in Win98SE in order to get the capture to work.

Here's a lineup of my hardware so you have an idea of what I'm working with.

UMAX Astra 610S
Epson Stylus Color 600
SB Live XGamer (not 5.1)
Hollywood Plus
ATI Rage Fury Pro
Pioneer 303S DVD-ROM (6x SCSI)
Teac CD-R55S burner (4X12 SCSI)
Memorex 48X IDE CD-ROM
Abit BM-6 MoBo
Celeron 466
2x 64MB MicroTech PC100

...and lastly, the SCSI card. It's a Promise Technology Simple SCSI (Fast SCSI-2). It uses the Symbios Logic 53C810 chipset. This (and maybe the ATI, but not as extreme) is the only thing IMO that is closer to the bottom of the barrel than the top. The bad drivers probably have a lot more to do with the fact that it's out-dated (2 years old) and the manufacturer didn't want to spend much time on a driver (paraphrasing what you said). This is enough to convince me to get something that is less dated and more apt to conform to a new OS. When I bought it the first time, I was looking for cheap, and it looks like that's what I got. I thought I learned a lesson when I built my first PC from a Cyrix CPU and other no-name parts (this is actually a left over from that). Looks like I should have upgraded the SCSI when I did the rest of the computer.

4KRG, I appreciate all your input. After seeing many of your posts in the past reguarding computer equipment, I value any information you have to share in the forum on the this topic.

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Old 01-01-01, 12:19 AM
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Jason,

That's cool, I just tend to be a bit of a hardware snob. I hope you understand I am not picking on you (I think you do).

The ATI card is not what you think it is, read my post in the other thread.

ABIT - oh god no
Umax - ARRRRRGGGHHHHH
Promise - is not the bottom of the barrel, but adaptec rules.

I can live with everything else

Don't get me wrong I ran the ATI Rage Pro 128 technology for years. It is GREAT stuff, just an old idea.

If the capture mode is your only issue on win2k consider yourself lucky. Might I recommend an ATI radeon DDR? New technology, old school ATI rules (STABLE).
Old 01-01-01, 12:40 AM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by 4KRG:
That's cool, I just tend to be a bit of a hardware snob. I hope you understand I am not picking on you (I think you do).
<HR>


No problem. Sometimes I do think you can be a little harsh (very mildly) on some of your voiced opinions (not just to me). There's no problem with that. In fact it's good that you don't conform to what everybody else thinks.


quote:<HR>Originally posted by 4KRG:
The ATI card is not what you think it is, read my post in the other thread.
<HR>

Read it and replied.


quote:<HR>Originally posted by 4KRG:
ABIT - oh god no
Umax - ARRRRRGGGHHHHH
<HR>

I've actually been very satisfied with my ABIT. But I have decided that if I upgrade this summer, I'll probably get an ASUS.

I bought the UMAX (my first scanner) 2.5 years ago and thought it was really good at the time. Even now I think it isn't bad, but it's not great either. I've been tossing around the option of getting a USB scanner (don't know which brand) when I feel that it's in my budget.


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Old 01-01-01, 12:45 AM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jason Northrup:
No problem. Sometimes I do think you can be a little harsh (very mildly) on some of your voiced opinions (not just to me). There's no problem with that. In fact it's good that you don't conform to what everybody else thinks.
<HR>


You should hear me in real life, I am a d*ck


quote:<HR>


I've actually been very satisfied with my ABIT. But I have decided that if I upgrade this summer, I'll probably get an ASUS.
<HR>


Satisfied? I won't ask

Asus (CERTAIN MODELS) good move. NO company makes every model perfect.

quote:<HR>

I bought the UMAX (my first scanner) 2.5 years ago and thought it was really good at the time. Even now I think it isn't bad, but it's not great either. I've been tossing around the option of getting a USB scanner (don't know which brand) when I feel that it's in my budget.


<HR>


HP all the way. You will see, if you ever do get one, what I mean. Satisfaction is all relative. What makes most happy does not make me happy, but you do need to get what makes you happy.
Old 01-01-01, 01:10 AM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by 4KRG:
If the capture mode is your only issue on win2k consider yourself lucky. Might I recommend an ATI radeon DDR? New technology, old school ATI rules (STABLE).
<HR>


I haven't really tried any 3D since installation, but I don't use 3D enough to worry about it. Even then it would be game related which means I'd probably have to use Win98. As for the Radeon, have you ever heard of money?



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Old 01-01-01, 01:29 AM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jason Northrup:
, have you ever heard of money?

<HR>


hmmmmm budget computers are pure evil


cough...cough...at least you do not have an emachines like my brilliant sister

Old 01-01-01, 01:47 AM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by 4KRG:

cough...cough...at least you do not have an emachines like my brilliant sister
<HR>


I don't like most pre-built PCs (my brother's new Dell is fairly good though). I just assume build my own. Maybe next time my PC will be 100% (rather than 80%) really good parts. We learn from our mistakes (well, at least some of them).

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Old 01-01-01, 01:49 AM
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Jason

check with me (and X) on the hardware side. I do not know everything, but I know what works best (nothing is perfect). I can also do it on a budget, sort of. Shall we say not a minimal budget, but not all out either.

I bet you love that TEAC cd burner, one of my favorite pieces.
Old 01-01-01, 01:56 AM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by 4KRG:
I bet you love that TEAC cd burner, one of my favorite pieces.
<HR>


It's great. The only bad burns were due to either software issues or SCSI chain that was too long. Other than that it's been perfection.


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Old 01-14-01, 10:55 PM
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Okay, so now I am a more satisfied Win2k user. It took several hours of troubleshooting (thanks go out to X and 4KRG for thier suggestions even if it was my idea that fixed it ), but my new SCSI card works fine as does my CD-R drive. This was my major problem with Win2k. Now I can move on and not worry about it anymore. Just wait for ATI to release some non-beta drivers for my Fury Pro and wait for MS to fix the digital audio problem.

Now that I am not worrying about my scsi/cd-r problem I and since I'll be getting more RAM in a couple days, I'll try to give a better review of my Win2k experiences sometime soon.

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Old 01-14-01, 11:08 PM
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If you're trying to pass digital audio, I hear the SP2beta will do it. But, a beta of a MS SP?

Maybe if you make a backup first. I've been chicken but others are using it.
Old 01-14-01, 11:12 PM
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Jason,

You now see why I find something that works and stick to it.

Anyone who used that specific teac model cdr would know. There are way too many models of things out there for even a small army of men to keep track of all the glitches.

Now it all makes sense, it was a scsi problem, but it was the firmware on the cdr causing it all.

Also, I always asume some basic (no brainer) stuff (like firmware/bios/driver updates) are done as step one. My fault

Glad you got it running. You will find win2k a much better experience than the 9X line (not perfect, but better)

good luck and enjoy and don't fiddle to much with the damn thing now that it is running win2k is easy to take out
Old 01-14-01, 11:13 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by X:
Maybe if you make a backup first.
<HR>


Well, once I get some blank CDs (only have 2 left) I plan on making "recover" disks of my Windows partition. Between 2000, 98, and all the software that's installed it'll probably take up 5 or 6 CDs.

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Old 01-14-01, 11:19 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by 4KRG:
...don't fiddle to much with the damn thing...
<HR>


For my, fiddling with things is an impossibillity. That's why I'm making the backup disks of the system.


quote:<HR>Originally posted by 4KRG:
I always asume some basic (no brainer) stuff (like firmware/bios/driver updates) are done as step one. My fault
<HR>


I should have thought of this myself early on as a normal trouble shooting issue, but I was so set on it being directly relate to the SCSI card and not somehing on the SCSI bus.



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