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Anyone ever switch FROM Mac back to PC?

Old 12-22-05, 08:23 AM
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Anyone ever switch FROM Mac back to PC?

I did the switch TO Mac a little over two years ago because a friend of mine -- who works in the printing industry -- said that it would improve my whole computer experience at home. I really haven't found this to be true and I certainly don't understand the whole Mac cult thing. The truth is I've sort of found the Mac OS to be buggy and crash prone and other than viruses and spyware, not really a much of an improvement over a PC. (I guess I should mention that I'm the "IT guy" at work, so guarding against viruses etc is sort of second nature to me, so it's really not much of a problem.)

I found a post from a few months back that pretty much sums up my experiences:

Originally Posted by Save Ferris
Macs are great for anti-virus protections but Ive yet to find a great browser for all internet activities on it. Firefox wont work with printing labels on usps.com and Safari wont work with printing labels on paypal.com. These are just examples off the top of my head but NO browser works 100% accurately over 80% of the time. Even right now, ive had a mysterious problem where firefox will just crash and disappear while viewing dvdtalk. Oh well nothing new.

As far as system stability goes, im really not impressed. Im running OS X 10.3.8 on my G5 dual 2.5GHz powerpc right now and im afraid to upgrade. My other workstation is a dual G4 and when I did the automatic update the thing kept crashing and rebooting and I had to reinstall everything. Now im really spooked to do any more updates. My photoshop CS sometimes freezes and crashes for no apparent reason also. Email is really questionable too. I try using MacMail and the PC users in our building dont always get attachments, so I switched to thunderbird. Still some people get weird side effects and a whole new set of variances. It works but nothings 100% acceptable on it. Ive been told its because of our server or whatever but mac gurus say it will never work perfectly together.

Theres just a list of quirks that Macs have that I hate, that have remained part of the nature of macs over the years. Ive posted about them before--a list of idiotic things Macs do (like delete key on the keyboard wont delete a file thats selected, you have to drag it to the trash, like theres no eject button for CDs, like you cant delete SOME files out of the trash--its all or none)
Thanks Save Ferris! I have a dual processor G5 2.0 GHz machine and mostly use it for internet, iTunes and film editing with Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro. I learned the hard way to save in FCP every ten minutes or so and overall I think I've sent more "Send Report to Apple" reports after some program crashes than anyone in history! On the OSX 10.4 update, I wiped EVERYTHING and started from scratch thinking that would solve my problems and it seemed to for awhile, but there's always little bugs and quirks and crap that, frankly, I'm just tired of dealing with.

The last reason is that I also feel out of the loop in the computer world. Every time I turn around, I've got to take stuff to work to do because some damned website will only act properly with IE on a PC....

So, sorry so long-winded, but has anyone here ever switched BACK?
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Old 12-22-05, 09:47 AM
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We (my wife & I) have used macs for about ten years. We love them a lot. My wife is a graphic artist at a newspaper, and uses them everyday at work. Most of the people that work with her can't stand a pc.

I lost a Lot of interest in the mac, when OSX came out. I hate OSX! Mac started losing it's user friendliness, with OSX (harder to troubleshoot, harder to find stuff, etc.). I wanted a pc, because some of the stuff I wanted to learn and do, were easier on the pc. By easier, I mean there's more software and hardware. I wanted to learn to burn dvds. There is no DVD Shrink or DVD Decrypter versions for mac. There are similar versions for mac, but not as good. A friend burns dvds on his mac, but my pc does it easier and better. I also have my pc setup with DD 5.1 surround sound. Also, a lot of internet stuff is pc only.

Macs have a few decent games, but not like the pc. One of my all time favorites (Microsoft's Combat Flight Simulator) is not available for the mac. I'm not a hard core gamer, but the games I DO like, aren't mac games.

I really like my pc. I haven't even used our iMac in over a year. It's an old one, and is very slow, compared to the newer pc. Would like to get my wife a new mac. I still think that mac is a better built machine. There is no better computer than a mac with OS 9 on it! I just hate OSX! I think everyone should own a pc AND a mac. Everyone should be efficient with both. I don't like that macs are gonna start using Intel chips. I think that's gonna start causing macs to have pc type problems, that they never had before. Oh well................. nothing I can do about it, except not buy one.
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Old 12-22-05, 07:48 PM
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you're probably the first person I've heard say they prefer OS 9 to OS X. OS X blows OS 9 away in terms of stability and feature set. I agree it is harder to troubleshoot when something does go wrong (due to the unix underpinnings) but it's so much better in so many ways. About the only thing OS 9 has on it is that it would run faster. Honestly though with Tiger, I feel like my flatpanel iMac is running as fast as it would be running OS 9 (I can't tell though since my iMac cannot boot into OS 9). OS X 10.2 was noticeably slower on my old 350 G4 than OS 9 but I think with more recent hardware it's not an issue.
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Old 12-22-05, 07:55 PM
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I got the Mac right after OS X came out so I never had OS 9, but it sounds as though we have some of the same types of complaints about the Mac. There's no question that it's pretty and powerful, but I guess I'm questioning my need for all that power to surf the net and check e-mail. Several programs I've attempted to use over the past few years on the Mac have been quirky -- there were times when I thought that it was just this machine that was a problem, but I find after reading a lot of articles and posts in other forums that I'm not alone with my troubles. I think I've probably decided to switch back....

Thanks for the reply!
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Old 12-22-05, 09:45 PM
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Sure. I grew up on Macs. I used Macs all through school, including College. Once I entered the real world, I switched to PC's.
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Old 12-23-05, 06:40 AM
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SMB, the Firefox & Safari comments are justified. There is only one or two sites I visit that Firefox just doesn't like, so I keep Safari on standby. So not 100%, but close.

As far as crashing, I have never had this problem. I've been on macs at home since 2000. I d/l all the updates, but I usually wait on them for them to work out any quirks that the diehards point out when they are first released. That is advice told to me that seems to work well. If you read the apple forums the day of an update you see people complaining about weird shit happening. Just wait a few weeks to a month before you update.

The only consistent problem I have had(once a year), is fonts. They get corrupted somehow, or Helvetica Fractals magically appears as a font that screws every program up. It's just a matter of deleting it though.

Originally Posted by emoxley
A friend burns dvds on his mac, but my pc does it easier and better.
Umm. Drag and drop into Toast. Click Burn. 2 steps. Not sure how it could be any easier or better on the PC. I'm sure there is an equivilent program that only requires two steps as well, but easier & better implies you can do it in less steps. Show me that program. Or you just create a "burn folder," drag and drop files, click burn. 3 steps. It is about the same on the PC.
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Old 12-23-05, 08:31 AM
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I don't remember having any troubles with updates but I did learn to wait a few weeks before installing to see what the "Macfreaks" at MacDailyNews or other places found in a new update. The weirdness (like losing 200 pictures or so out of iPhoto, only to find later that the filenames were still intact, but they had all become zero byte files?!?) seems to happen sporatically and with no rhyme or reason -- I hadn't touched iPhoto in months! Sometimes the damned thing acts like a Windows machine with a virus -- and this is AFTER I wiped everything from the hard drive when OS 10.4 came out.

I guess for me -- and this would be a blasphemous statement in most Mac places -- the Mac is pretty much equal to a Windows machine; each has their own advantages AND problems and certainly neither is perfect, but, even after two years, I'm still WAY more comfortable on a Windows machine.
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Old 12-23-05, 10:11 AM
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Michael Corvin...........
As far as burning dvds, I'm talking more about backing up my dvd movies. I did it on my friend's mac, for him, and my pc does it much easier. I'm not a pc person putting down a mac. I love macs, except for OSX. I'm just stating the facts, as I have experienced them.
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Old 12-23-05, 03:12 PM
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Honestly, backing up DVDs is dead simple on either platform. Not that this exercise should be a highlight for platform choice, however, if you find one easier than the other, you're probably not aware of how many apps are actually available to accomplish this. There are 1-click options on both platforms. I can't fathom anything easier than that.
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Old 12-23-05, 03:36 PM
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I started my computer life on MACs (unless you consider 'pong' and the atari 2600 computers). I used them for years and I loved using them.

I was half and half between PCs and Macs when windows 386 was released.

I went 100% into PCs when windows 95 was released (except for the massive quickmail infrastructure I had to support which was all MAC based with no hope for conversion).

I have toyed with OSX, but to this day have had no reason at all to ever look back at MACS.

All my needs are more than met with PC based hardware and software.

I know my MAC experience is dated, but I saw more problems in the MAC world that simply had no solutions that I hated supporting MACs (thru OS 7).

In the tech team that I worked in back then, we supported about 350 PCs and about 100 MACs with a variety of Novell servers and Quickmail and ccMail. There were 4 of us and we use to always fight over who would have to go battle the stupid MAC problems The funnier thing was the people that used the MACs knew we hated to come help them and they would always try to fix their own problems as ALL of them would argue us to death that MACs were better than PCs and had fewer problems, etc, etc, etc so they had to eat some crow when they would have to call us in for a "MAC Problem" which btw was almost daily.


I hear OSX is much better, but there isn't any computer system made that is 100% stable and perfect. They all have problems. Better stability comes from tuning a complete platform (hardware, software, drivers, etc, etc) because any one piece can cause a lot of "problems" in any environment.
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Old 12-23-05, 08:49 PM
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and just because we are on the subject, here is a funny

http://colo.slacker.com/apple-support-calls//
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Old 12-23-05, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 4KRG
and just because we are on the subject, here is a funny

http://colo.slacker.com/apple-support-calls//
Dear God, Please let me never work tech support, I beg of you!
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Old 12-24-05, 12:00 AM
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The price is the main reason I don't have a MAC. I am going to school for graphic design. We use both MACs and PCs. I am comfortable with both....but the MAC cost about 3-4 times as much as decent PC.


So....if you wanna sell that MAC you have at a good price, let me know!
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Old 12-24-05, 09:46 AM
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3 to 4 times as much? Seriously, even for this thread, that's a bit of a strech.
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Old 12-24-05, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by meritocracy
3 to 4 times as much? Seriously, even for this thread, that's a bit of a strech.
True. I'm willing to go as high as "twice as much" given the topic of discussion.

I guess I could qualify as a person going from Mac to PC. My computer history goes:
Grade school = Apple IIe, Apple IIc
High school = IBM PC and IBM PC Compatibles
First 2 years of college = Mac PowerBook (had a built-in trackball)
College year 3 to now = PC

I'd love to own a Mac. But I won't be giving up my PC, as the Mac will be an add-on. From the dozen or so of my friends who own Macs, all of them--except for one--also own a PC. The main issue is compatibility, as there really isn't any. Hell, even within the PC (or within the Mac), a lot of compatibility issues arise whenever a newer version of a software is released. Say, when you upgrade to Microsoft Office 2003 from Office XP, half of your Offices files either won't open or would look materially different than what they used to be. Okay, okay, so half may be an exaggeration ... sorta like the "3 to 4 times as much" figure above.
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Old 12-24-05, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 4KRG
and just because we are on the subject, here is a funny

http://colo.slacker.com/apple-support-calls//
Crying mid-term failure...



Some people REALLY need some perspective.
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Old 12-24-05, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by meritocracy
3 to 4 times as much? Seriously, even for this thread, that's a bit of a strech.
Well....I just priced an entire new AMD system (including case) at Newegg for $580.

A Power Mac G5 starts at $2,000.

I'm not a genius...but you do the math.


I know it's comparing "apples to oranges", but I'm just trying to make a point.
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Old 12-24-05, 10:00 PM
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And you can get a mac mini from amazon for

$545 - base
$200 - lcd monitor
$30 - keyboard
$30 - mouse

I am at $805

Sure PC's are cheaper, I mean I can get an emachines sempron 3100+ right now for $200 after rebate, add the $200 monitor to it and boom $400 I have a PC complete system that will out compute the mac mini, but I am ONLY at half the price and I am buying the PC after rebates, on sale, and of questionable quality.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...33429?n=541966

I would say macs are more expensive but if you FAIRLY compare the two AT MOST macs are twice as expensive. Usually they are less than twice.

I have a friend that just spent $5000 on a PC from here

http://digitalstormonline.com/

You have to be very careful/anal about what you are comparing
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Old 12-24-05, 11:44 PM
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I've had a firm belief for a long time that a person who uses a Mac after using a PC will actually become a dumber person. If you'd like to see an example of that on a smaller scale, just compare a knowledgeable person using a generic MP3 player, and force him/her to use an iPod.
From a social point of view Apples only success is to breed technological ignorance on a mass scale. Shame on them.
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Old 12-25-05, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 4KRG
And you can get a mac mini from amazon for

$545 - base
$200 - lcd monitor
$30 - keyboard
$30 - mouse

I am at $805

You have to be very careful/anal about what you are comparing
The original poster was talking about a Power Mac G5, and that's what I'm comparing. I wasn't counting the Mac Mini or iMac. Of course, you can get those at a cheaper price, but won't get the same performance.

The PC I priced has:
AMD Athlon 64 3000+
1 GB Corsair SDRAM
Radeon 256 MB Video Card
250 GB Western Digital Serial ATA HD
16X NEC DVD Burner
Nvidia nForce4 Motherboard
----------------------------
= $580


Most inexpensive Power Mac:
Dual-core 2GHz PowerPC G5 processor
512MB of 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA hard drive
16x SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE with 128MB GDDR SDRAM
-----------------------------------------------
= $1,999


It also saves money if you can build your own PC. But PCs just seem to be more bang for the buck.
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Old 12-25-05, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by fmian
I've had a firm belief for a long time that a person who uses a Mac after using a PC will actually become a dumber person.
...wow.
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Old 12-25-05, 08:34 AM
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I went to macintosh in 1999, a blue and white G3, and it was the best decision I could have made at the time. I was struggling with video production on the PC. The mac allowed me to get things moving quickly and efficiently. I still maintain this was the single best computer I've ever owned, or am likely to own.

Fast forward to 2002. I'm on my second mac (867 quicksilver with superdrive). It's the early stages of the OS X transition. While I'm more or less satisfied with my computer, my desire to tinker leads me back to the computer shows, where I pick up the parts to build an XP 1600 machine. Well, it pretty much smoked the apple. This lead to building a P4 3Ghz machine, with the intent to migrate away from apple.

Well, a lost project lead me to replace my quicksilver machine (which I had found out was a bit of a dog as a model, not just my machine) with a G5 1.6 from the apple refurbished store. It's very nice (not as fast as the Pentium 4), but I'm still thinking about ditching it. First off, DVD encoding is not an option for the macintosh. Authoring with DVD Studio Pro is great, but encoding the video into an .m2t file is a disaster. Compressor, the mpeg2 compression software, is atrocious. While I get crystal clear, faster than real-time encoding on the PC with Cinemacraft Basic, Compressor puts along for several hours and delivers substandard results. I recently purchased an HDV video camera, and compressor simply cannot deliver an mpeg2 file for a DVD. It takes hours for a 5 minute test clip, and the quality is not simply unacceptable, but actually unwatchable.

Apple, in my opinion, is spending too much time on trendy, high profile consumer items. A quality .m2t encoding tool won't get Steve Jobs on the cover of Time Magazine, but it will keep their supposed customer base from migrating to the PC.
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Old 12-25-05, 09:44 AM
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We have at least 2 dozen Mac servers running apache, tomcat, mysql/php, ssh services and they NEVER EVER crash. In fact, our Windows servers need to have a reboot script that runs every couple days to stay stable. The Macs never reboot.

As for consumer machines, I can never remember any of mine crashing. An app might freak out, but you just do a force quit - or heaven forbid, issue a `kill` at the unix prompt.

Macs make you dumber? Its the Windows people that don't know unix. Its 'ls' not 'dir' and its 'clear, not 'cls'!!! And grep on Windows? Forget it.

BTW, one of my happiest moments is when we have meetings and people get out their laptops. The Windows people whine for 5 minutes to get their wireless connected while the Mac people roll their eyes. And presentations? The Windows laptops and projector are classic moments!!

Last edited by CRM114; 12-25-05 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 12-25-05, 11:58 AM
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fmian: If by "dumber" you mean that a person's "tinker" ability is less on a Mac (vs. a PC) or that as Jason said that Apple is spending too much time on trendy, high profile consumer items rather than making the Mac more customizable by the end user, then I would agree with you. If you mean that the Mac just makes one dumber in general, then I don't know what you're talking about. I've had a few mp3 players in the past and the iPod blows them all away in both its interface, ease of use and performance.

G-Rex: In fairness, when I bought the G5 I have a little over two years ago, having the same specifications as you state except bringing the memory to 1GB and the hard drives to two 250GB ATA Serial drives, the machine cost me close to $3000. At the time, I wasn't considering price (or, shall we say DEBT), only the performance of the machine. You can go out and get a decent PC for the prices you state, but I'm not complaining about the cost, just the overall performance.

Jason: I have made a few DVDs over the past two years using Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro, however, the "features" were usually an hour more or less, so the final product out of DVD Studio Pro has been fine for me. Coming from Adobe Premiere on the PC, I was used to starting the encoding and walking away from the computer for a day or more, so I'm not sure how long the encoding took.

CRM114: I will say that although I don't really need to reboot very often, it has happened a few times, however, I'm also convinced that there is a "gremlin in the machine" here. A graphic artist friend of mine uses Mac at both work and home and says that he can leave the Mac on at work for DAYS at a time using Quark, Illustrator, InDesign, a platemaking program and various other stuff I've never heard of, so, I guess YMMV depending on the applications.

I started a new thread a few days ago regarding a printing problem in that a printer that had worked fine just suddenly stopped being recognized by the computer to the point that I assumed the USB plug on the printer was dead. The thread's gone now because, well, first, no one responded and this same friend told me to re-install Tiger and THAT fixed the problem. If I had not become so dumb from using the Mac, I probably would have figured that out on my own.

Thanks to all for your observations and experiences. The graphic artist friend thinks that I'm being hasty and frankly, stupid (i.e., dumb), for wanting to go back to Windows, so I'm kind of being pulled in two different directions on this topic. Bottom line is despite the lack of viruses and trojans and spyware (oh my!), I'm just not as happy on the Mac as on a PC. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that I could use the Christmas bonus for something other than a new PC.... Sorry, I keep talking myself in and out of buying a new computer!

Thanks again to all -- you're a GREAT group!
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Old 12-25-05, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
We have at least 2 dozen Mac servers running apache, tomcat, mysql/php, ssh services and they NEVER EVER crash. In fact, our Windows servers need to have a reboot script that runs every couple days to stay stable. The Macs never reboot.
I can say that I operate stable windows servers. It alludes to what I said a few posts up, building a stable "platform" is critical no matter what your OS is. Since the mac has less choices in hardware + software (which limits driver seletion naturally) it is much easier to happen upon a winning combo.

If you don't know what the hell you are doing or are stuck with bum hardware, then your windows machines will need rebooted every week.

A windows machine tuned properly will run and run and run and run. I have several 2000 servers that have been running for a year or more without issue or reboot, they are so stable there is no reason to upgrade them to 2003.


As for consumer machines, I can never remember any of mine crashing. An app might freak out, but you just do a force quit - or heaven forbid, issue a `kill` at the unix prompt.
The issues that we have with consumer machines can 95% of the time be traced back to something the user did. We are working on a new proposal that will remove the users from the local admin group and only leave them as power users. My expereience tells me this will cut trouble calls significantly.

My personal machines at work and at home NEVER get turned off. The last time my home ones rebooted was due to a power outage and the last time my work one had an issue was because SMS choked pushing out the new symantec client 10 to my machine. Since the MAC has never even attempted such a transaction, it can't compare



BTW, one of my happiest moments is when we have meetings and people get out their laptops. The Windows people whine for 5 minutes to get their wireless connected while the Mac people roll their eyes. And presentations? The Windows laptops and projector are classic moments!!
It's good you work in an enviroment where no one gives a shit about security We do not have that luxury and can not run wireless. However, in other non-work situations I have never had a problem connecting to a wireless network with windows xp, again I would have to say something is wrong with your setup (or you have a crap wireless card) or the users are dummer than dirt.
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