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Mac OS X running on non-Apple x86

Old 08-11-05, 03:51 PM
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Mac OS X running on non-Apple x86

Can be found on /. and other sources; this story came from ieXbeta.
Ever since Apple announced its switch to Intel x86 processors, and the availability of early x86 development kits, quite a few people have tried to get this early x86 Tiger build to run on non-Apple PCs. We've seen tons of fake claims, including videos, screenshots and torrent files, but it seems this time that finally some people managed to do it.

A few days ago, a Torrent emerged for the Tiger x86 DVD shipped with development kits. However this DVD won't even boot on regular PCs, for two main reasons :

- the motherboard of Apple's dev kits include a TPM chip (Trusted Platform Module) to secure the use of the OS on Apple-only motherboards. The rest of the motherboard, however, is pretty much Intel-standard.
- this early x86 Tiger build had been compiled to make use of SSE3 instructions, only implemented in Athlon 64 processors and newer Intel Pentium IVs.

It seems like both restrictions have somehow been lifted. Reports are coming of Mac OS x86 being able to run from a VMWare virtual machine, after extensive tweaking to remove both TPM and SSE3 restrictions. A torrent of that virtual machine is even said to be available. Needless to say, we will not provide its link nor answer any question as to where to download this puppy.

Users with PCs close to Apple's own dev kit specs seem to be enjoying a nice speed, close to, if not even better, than that of current Powermacs G5. Users with non-SSE3 chips however, seem to experience a much slower and unstable system.

More details to follow...
A forum has been setup and already has TONS of posts, can be found here: http://www.concretesurf.co.nz/osx86/

Of course, any discussion of how to obtain the actual x86 OS X dev. kit is not allowed.
Old 08-11-05, 04:34 PM
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So to 'remove' the TPM and SSE3 restrictions they just wrapped the OS in a virtual machine which can be run from any linux or windows system with Vmware installed? I thought Vmware did not do CPU hardware emulation, just limited peripheral emulation and virtualization to share actual hardware with the virtual OS.
Old 08-11-05, 04:53 PM
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No. Basically, they removed those requirments by "patching" some system files. All they did was take certain files from Darwin, the Apple-developed version of BSD, and replaced OSX files with those. Then they made a disk image than can be run in a virtual machine so you don't have to install it. However, it's VERY SLOW on VMWare. It is possible to run it natively by sligh5tly modifying the procedure for installing it to VMWare. The only caveat with this is (also applies to VM) if your processor doesn't support SSE3 then you can't run the Rosetta layer, which lets Power PC appls run on x86. The only program that comes with the x86 dev. kit that is still PPC is iTunes. Everything else works.
Old 08-13-05, 08:26 PM
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i really hope apple makes OS X for all the x86 computers, i'd rather be using that than windows xp anyday, but i like all my x86 games!
Old 08-13-05, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BeanDip0001
i really hope apple makes OS X for all the x86 computers, i'd rather be using that than windows xp anyday, but i like all my x86 games!
Not going to happen. There is no money to be made that way, plus part of the reason that Macs work the way that they do is because there is a limited and controlled hardware base.
Old 08-13-05, 09:22 PM
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your CPU must support at least SSE2. athlon xp bartons will not work. some A64s will. lots of documentation on what to do.
Old 08-13-05, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Brain Stew
Not going to happen. There is no money to be made that way, plus part of the reason that Macs work the way that they do is because there is a limited and controlled hardware base.
nah, no money to be made in selling an operating system. Somebody oughta let Microsoft know that before they get in too much financial trouble...

-jason
Old 08-13-05, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by fuzzbox
nah, no money to be made in selling an operating system. Somebody oughta let Microsoft know that before they get in too much financial trouble...

-jason
I knew someone was going to say that. Microsoft doesn't JUST sell an OS. There are many interlocking parts that go along with it. You also forgetting about Office, as well as server operating systems (not just Windows 200x Server, but also SQL Server and Exchange Mail Server.)

Let's also not forget the volume licenses that are purchased with those pieces of software! The home market is an arena all it's own. The money is made at businesses and businesses aren't switching away from Microsoft.

Last edited by Brain Stew; 08-13-05 at 09:42 PM.
Old 08-13-05, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Brain Stew
Not going to happen. There is no money to be made that way, plus part of the reason that Macs work the way that they do is because there is a limited and controlled hardware base.
Agreed, but I'm hoping that the Intel switch will lower the prices of some Macs.
Old 08-13-05, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
Agreed, but I'm hoping that the Intel switch will lower the prices of some Macs.
I hope so too, but who knows?

Also, for those who still believe that they will become a software only company need I remind you of the brief period in the late 90s when Mac allowed clone PCs? They lost almost all hardware sales and the business couldn't sustain it. One of Steve Jobs first acts when he became CEO again was to disallow all clones.
Old 08-14-05, 03:34 AM
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i had a clone it was the biggest POS i ever had, my last mac was a g4, but now i've got an amd64 for two reasons the main one being the games, the other is all the school crap for the ccne and microsoft server crap, not to mention for the money i have in this system i could have bought like half a power mac g5.

i still think that if apple gives the rest of the x86 people a choice and make os x server work on x86 they could take some market share. every admin i know would rather have a unix backbone on their network than microsoft.

oh well maybe in like 10 years the mac mini will be the size of a zippo or stick of gum or something
Old 08-14-05, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Brain Stew
I knew someone was going to say that. Microsoft doesn't JUST sell an OS. There are many interlocking parts that go along with it. You also forgetting about Office, as well as server operating systems (not just Windows 200x Server, but also SQL Server and Exchange Mail Server.).
But don't forget that Microsoft were very rich bastards WAY before all that was around. MS-Dos made them financially secure enough to be able to do things like office, way before e-mail was a household term.

Originally Posted by Brain Stew
Let's also not forget the volume licenses that are purchased with those pieces of software! The home market is an arena all it's own. The money is made at businesses and businesses aren't switching away from Microsoft.
Depends on the business, really. Finance, yes, Graphic design, publishing they're all in the Mac camp..

Not that i'm playing favorites. I use a PC at home and a Mac at work. Personally, I'd much rather be PC all the time, but I have no choice, really...

-jason
Old 08-15-05, 03:57 AM
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If Apple comes out with a notebook that runs both OS X and Windows Vista, I'll be the first in line (if their prices are even somewhat within reason). The hardware will finally no longer be an obstacle for me. But it's got to run Windows because there are still too many peripherals that only have Windows software (smartphones, PDA's, etc).
Old 08-15-05, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by hahn
If Apple comes out with a notebook that runs both OS X and Windows Vista, I'll be the first in line (if their prices are even somewhat within reason). The hardware will finally no longer be an obstacle for me. But it's got to run Windows because there are still too many peripherals that only have Windows software (smartphones, PDA's, etc).
The price discrepancy on notebooks is a myth. I'm actually searching for a Windows laptop with nearly the same feature set and size as a Powerbook and its basically the same cost-wise.

The new Apple laptops will run both OS's, I'm sure. I'd think Apple would do something really slick too so you wouldn't even have to dual-boot. Like run an instance of XP inside OS X at full performance.
Old 08-15-05, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BeanDip0001
i still think that if apple gives the rest of the x86 people a choice and make os x server work on x86 they could take some market share. every admin i know would rather have a unix backbone on their network than microsoft.
MacOS X server already runs on a 1U rackmount server that is cheaper than anything else out there for the most part - the Xserve.



Business won't switch. They are too immersed in the MS way.
Old 08-15-05, 03:20 PM
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how cheap can you go and actually make it run? it makes you wonder if this was indeed apple's attempt at viral marketing -- this developer's edition is running on all types of hardware.
Old 08-15-05, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
MacOS X server already runs on a 1U rackmount server that is cheaper than anything else out there for the most part - the Xserve.



Business won't switch. They are too immersed in the MS way.

yeah, but when you spend upwards of 10,000 on a server do you really think you're going to throw that away and start over with new hardware, its eaiser to pay a few thousand more and load new software on your hardware. i'd flip out if one of the guys came to me and said hey we need all new servers, but if they said hey we need the new OS for our servers well then heres a PO and make it snappy.
Old 08-15-05, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BeanDip0001
yeah, but when you spend upwards of 10,000 on a server do you really think you're going to throw that away and start over with new hardware, its eaiser to pay a few thousand more and load new software on your hardware. i'd flip out if one of the guys came to me and said hey we need all new servers, but if they said hey we need the new OS for our servers well then heres a PO and make it snappy.
I hear you. But thats the point. The Xserves are like 4-5 grand. We buy loads of them.

And the software is the beautiful part. Unlimited clients - no licensing hassles. You can even add it to an Active Directory (although I haven't tried it yet.)

Last edited by CRM114; 08-15-05 at 08:31 PM.
Old 08-15-05, 10:16 PM
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i'd love to be working somewhere that used the xserve, but i've got sun stuff and microsoft. all this talk is making me hungry oh i've got an idea BeanDip and the rest of the DVD Talk nerds go to white castle
Old 08-17-05, 04:00 PM
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Rosetta (allows PPC apps to run on x86) has been hacked to work with SSE2 processors. (Basically any recent processor that's not a Pentium 4 or Celeron D, such as Pentium M... The former have SSE3, which is what Rosetta was designed to work on)

http://concretesurf.co.nz/osx86/viewtopic.php?t=1088

It's an early beta but it runs lots of PPC apps, including iTunes, Office, etc. Safari crashes the machine, though, but all it well after a restart.
Old 09-10-05, 02:21 PM
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xbench on a celeron d 330j (775 cpu on a 915g board) with 512MB -- 35. not great, however, better than mac mini with 512MB -- 28 (which cost a couple hundred bucks more and does not triple boot x86, xp, linux).

Last edited by kms_md; 09-10-05 at 02:25 PM.

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