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Apple...how do they keep going?

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Apple...how do they keep going?

Old 01-04-04, 03:09 PM
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Apple...how do they keep going?

I recently saw a profile of Steve Jobs that made it clear that Apple is thriving these days. In God's name...why?

1. Their operating system isn't 100% MS compatible, anyone who moves to a Mac from windows has to spend a fortune to buy all new apps. It's also much harder to get copies of stuff through...alternative means. I have no idea why a student would buy a Mac these days.
2. Most internet stuff (eg: filesharing) doesn't work on a Mac.
3. Proprietary hardware and software, everything is Mac branded. This idea went out of business in the Wintel world about 20 years ago. It's costs a fortune to buy a Mac and another one to make it have the equivalent RAM and HD space to a cheap-o Wintel box. Also, it's cheap to replace anythin in a Wintel box.
4. XP is, if anything, more stable and functional than Mac OS.
5. Both IBooks and IPods have massive quality control problems.
6. No open-source alternative OS.
7. Extremely expensive and awful first-party peripherals like speakers and mice.
8. The IPod has been caught and surpassed by competitors like the new Rios, the new Phillips or the new Iriver. All are much cheaper, offer similar-or-better sound quality, support multiple codecs, don't have battery quality problems and play longer, have non-colonizing software and superior connectivity options and have more features. Yeah, the IPod looks cool, but it's clearly a step behind it's newest rivals.
9. IMO, the only people who use the outrageously overpriced and under-stocked ITunes are either bamboozled by the RIAA's ludicrously illegal (recently proven in court) witch-hunt or are internet-illiterate and don't know any better.
10. Macs are purely home-use PCs. No business uses them, so it's a pain to do work at home on a Mac, you always have to worry about compatibility. That's ludicrous these days.

Don't get me wrong, MS stuff is pretty crappy, but Mac is infinitely worse. I don't get why anyone would go that route.

Last edited by Hiro11; 01-04-04 at 03:13 PM.
Old 01-04-04, 03:11 PM
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Re: Apple...how do they keep going?

Originally posted by Hiro11
1. Their operating system isn't 100% MS compatible, anyone who moves to a Mac from a has to spend a fortune to buy all new apps. It's also much harder to get copies of stuff through...alternative means. I have no idea why a student would buy a Mac these days.
2. Most internet stuff (eg: filesharing) doesn't work on a Mac.
3. Proprietary hardware and software, everything is Mac branded. This idea went out of business in the Wintel world about 20 years ago. It's costs a fortune to buy a Mac and another one to make is have the equivalent RAM and HD space to a cheap-o Wintel box. Also, it's cheap to replace anythin in a Wintel box.
4. XP is, if anything, more stable and functional than Mac OS.
5. Both IBooks and IPods have massive quality control problems.
6. No open-source alternative OS.
7. Extremely expensive and awful first-party peripherals like speakers and mice.
8. The IPod has been caught and surpassed by competitors like the new Rios, the new Phillips or the new Iriver. Both are much cheaper, offer similar-or-better sound quality, support multiple codecs, don't have battery quality problems and play longer, have non-colonizing software and superior connectivity options and have more features. Yeah, the IPod looks cool, but it's clearly a step behind it's newest rivals.
9. IMO, the only people who use the outrageously overpriced and under-stocked ITunes are either bamboozled by the RIAA's ludicrously illegal (recently proven in court) witch-hunt or are internet-illiterate and don't know any better.
10. Macs are purely home-use PCs. No business uses them, so it's a pain to do work at home on a Mac, you always have to worry about compatibility. That's ludicrous these days.
Macs have lots of problems, but most of this is simply FUD, except for #9, which is simply childish.

edited to take out the "wrong forum" part. Thought I was in otter.
Old 01-04-04, 03:15 PM
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Re: Re: Apple...how do they keep going?

Originally posted by Jason
Macs have lots of problems, but most of this is simply FUD, except for #9, which is simply childish.

edited to take out the "wrong forum" part. Thought I was in otter.
Nice thread-crap.
Old 01-04-04, 03:25 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Apple...how do they keep going?

Originally posted by Hiro11
Nice thread-crap.
How so? He's rebutting your argument.

I'd say the huge market for video editing/graphics is what keeps Apple in the black.
Old 01-04-04, 03:37 PM
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Go buy an iPod...
Old 01-04-04, 03:51 PM
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who really cares since there appears to be a market for their products. Believe it or not there are people who spend hundreds of $$$ on PC gear and the only thing they do is run benchmarks or overclock.
Old 01-04-04, 03:54 PM
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While a few of your arguments i agree with, others are just opinion. I prefer PC's myself, but i can see why people like Apple and their products. I know my friend bought an iBook when looking for a laptop because OSX is Unix based, making it more convenient for certain programming functions. And while a lot of their hardware is expensive, many of them are also very slick in both looks and use (i.e. their high end monitors and the iPod).

Basically, Apple keeps going because they can appeal to a strong, albeit small group of consumers, and have been appealing to more mainstream consumers with recent products since the imac.
Old 01-04-04, 04:08 PM
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I didn't even bother reading your so called points, but now that I do, I can laugh even more. #10 is about the most ludicrous statement I've ever heard.
Old 01-04-04, 04:17 PM
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Re: Apple...how do they keep going?

Originally posted by Hiro11
2. Most internet stuff (eg: filesharing) doesn't work on a Mac.
What about LimeWire?

4. XP is, if anything, more stable and functional than Mac OS..
Interesting. Use XP much?

6. No open-source alternative OS.
What about Yellow Dog?

9. IMO, the only people who use the outrageously overpriced and under-stocked ITunes are either bamboozled by the RIAA's ludicrously illegal (recently proven in court) witch-hunt or are internet-illiterate and don't know any better.
Are you just against iTunes, or the whole downloading business? Because most alternatives (save Wal-Mart) follow a very similar (if not exact) business model.

I have both XP and MacOS machines. They each have their good and bad qualities, but I don't think your list includes many of them. The price may be one of the negative aspects of owning a Mac, but then again, Windows/Office/etc. isn't exactly cheap.
Old 01-04-04, 04:31 PM
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10. Macs are purely home-use PCs. No business uses them,
Plenty of Macs are used in big business. The two future 500 companies that I have worked for used Macs exclusively in the Publications and Marketing departments. I currently have a job that requires me to visit on site many large companies and while PCs do far out number Macs I still continue to see Apple products in Art departments and such.
It's also much harder to get copies of stuff (software) through...alternative means.
Instead of using euphemisms like "alternative means" why didn't you just come out write it's harder to steal software for the Macs? That is what you are talking about isn't it?

Last edited by WCChiCubsFan; 01-04-04 at 04:33 PM.
Old 01-04-04, 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by WCChiCubsFan
Plenty of Macs are used in big business. The two future 500 companies that I have worked for used Macs exclusively in the Publications and Marketing departments. I currently have a job that requires me to visit on site many large companies and while PCs do far out number Macs I still continue to see Apple products in Art departments and such.
Exactly. Most companies use Macs for anything that is graphics related. Obviously the original poster doesn't realize that.
Old 01-04-04, 04:56 PM
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Re: Apple...how do they keep going?

If it weren't for Hiro11's "Special Edition" label, I'd think he was a newbie troll. Err, maybe Hiro11's account was hijacked by some childish idiot? Please, let it be!

Regardless, I'll respond to a few interesting points.

Originally posted by Hiro11
4. XP is, if anything, more stable and functional than Mac OS.
What version of the Mac OS? What experience do you have to come to this conclusion? Up until 9.2, I'd somewhat agree. 9.2 and OSX (for the little time I have had to use OSX) are quite stable--on par with XP, IMO, maybe better.

6. No open-source alternative OS.
Since when can't I run Linux on a Mac? It's been an option since the mid-90s.

8. The IPod has been caught and surpassed by competitors like the new Rios, the new Phillips or the new Iriver. All are much cheaper, offer similar-or-better sound quality, support multiple codecs, don't have battery quality problems and play longer, have non-colonizing software and superior connectivity options and have more features. Yeah, the IPod looks cool, but it's clearly a step behind it's newest rivals.
Ever use an iPod? I wouldn't trade mine--I think the user interface is still lightyears ahead of the competition.

9. IMO, the only people who use the outrageously overpriced and under-stocked ITunes are either bamboozled by the RIAA's ludicrously illegal (recently proven in court) witch-hunt or are internet-illiterate and don't know any better.
Based upon what you're saying... I hate you (and people like you). Yes, the RIAA has gone too far, but what's wrong with paying somebody for their work? A musician's job certainly sounds fun, but they need to eat like the rest of us. How would you like it if I came into your office and stole your work every day and turned it into your boss, taking all of the credit and giving you none?

10. Macs are purely home-use PCs. No business uses them, so it's a pain to do work at home on a Mac, you always have to worry about compatibility. That's ludicrous these days.
You don't work in the graphics/publishing/video editing industry, do you?

Go away, troll.
Old 01-04-04, 05:14 PM
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Re: Apple...how do they keep going?

I recently saw a profile of Steve Jobs that made it clear that Apple is thriving these days. In God's name...why?

1. Their operating system isn't 100% MS compatible, anyone who moves to a Mac from windows has to spend a fortune to buy all new apps. It's also much harder to get copies of stuff through...alternative means. I have no idea why a student would buy a Mac these days.
i am a student. my powerbook is in the mail. they are generally MS compatible. for media apps, macs are the undisputed champion.
2. Most internet stuff (eg: filesharing) doesn't work on a Mac.
ummmmm....no. we have kazaa, limewire, acquisition, gnutella, edonkey, emule. so that's bullsh*t.
3. Proprietary hardware and software, everything is Mac branded. This idea went out of business in the Wintel world about 20 years ago. It's costs a fortune to buy a Mac and another one to make it have the equivalent RAM and HD space to a cheap-o Wintel box. Also, it's cheap to replace anythin in a Wintel box.
you pay a higher price for a mercedes than a hyundai. macs are expensive, but worth it.
4. XP is, if anything, more stable and functional than Mac OS.
BIGGEST LIE IN YOUR LIST. cough...UNIX...cough.
5. Both IBooks and IPods have massive quality control problems.
my ipod works perfectly; i have heard of probs though
6. No open-source alternative OS.
cough...linux...cough
7. Extremely expensive and awful first-party peripherals like speakers and mice.
many pc usb peripherals will work w/ a mac. the first party peripherals are expensive, but excellent quality. again, mercedes vs. hyundai.
8. The IPod has been caught and surpassed by competitors like the new Rios, the new Phillips or the new Iriver. All are much cheaper, offer similar-or-better sound quality, support multiple codecs, don't have battery quality problems and play longer, have non-colonizing software and superior connectivity options and have more features. Yeah, the IPod looks cool, but it's clearly a step behind it's newest rivals.
i agree that the new iriver is comparable, but the ipod was and is leaps and bounds ahead of other mp3 players
9. IMO, the only people who use the outrageously overpriced and under-stocked ITunes are either bamboozled by the RIAA's ludicrously illegal (recently proven in court) witch-hunt or are internet-illiterate and don't know any better.
i've never used it, but millions have, another wise apple business decision.
10. Macs are purely home-use PCs. No business uses them, so it's a pain to do work at home on a Mac, you always have to worry about compatibility. That's ludicrous these days.
no on all counts
Don't get me wrong, MS stuff is pretty crappy, but Mac is infinitely worse. I don't get why anyone would go that route.
the mac os backbone in unix is inherently more stable. macs have many fewer problems with compatibility nowadays.

all this said, i have a Macs and PCs. i understand the merits of both, and recognize that apple is the best solution for me.

Last edited by jkester; 01-04-04 at 05:17 PM.
Old 01-04-04, 05:29 PM
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Not a Mac user but I know BS when I see it.
Old 01-04-04, 07:21 PM
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I am curious if the original poster has ever used a Mac. I just got a new iBook G4 on 12/28/03 and love it. I like my desktop PC as well but I do not get the hatred that is on both sides of the argument. I read Mac forums as well and every post is WINDOZE sucks. I just don't get it. I guess the same thing goes with car forums. Oh well.
Old 01-04-04, 07:28 PM
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And the original poster has nothing to say.

I'm a PC user through and through, but my iPod and the G5 I am gunning for at work have their place as well.

Oh, and Final Cut Pro/DVD Studio Pro smack the crap out of ANY comparable piece of software on the PC. And I've tried them all.
Old 01-04-04, 07:57 PM
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I have never touched a Mac in my life, probably never will, but even I knew most of your statements are wrong (see all the other posts for more info).
Old 01-04-04, 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by Draven

Oh, and Final Cut Pro/DVD Studio Pro smack the crap out of ANY comparable piece of software on the PC. And I've tried them all.
AMEN!
Old 01-04-04, 08:44 PM
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Didn't we just have a thread like this? Sigh.

I'm certainly not pro-Mac, but all of your points are ridiculously exaggerated.

I will say, however, that while the iPod looks nice, I'd much rather pay $250 for my 30GB Nomad Zen NX than the overpriced iPod. One of my best purchases.

Originally posted by Draven
Oh, and Final Cut Pro/DVD Studio Pro smack the crap out of ANY comparable piece of software on the PC. And I've tried them all.
Everytime someone says something like this, I ask them why? I don't use a Mac, so I'm genuinely curious. But, I never get a reasonable answer. What can you do in Final Cut Pro that I can't do just as easily in Premiere Pro? What can you do in DVD Studio Pro that I can't do just as easily in Encore DVD or DVD Maestro?
Old 01-04-04, 11:05 PM
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I like both the Dual G4 w/ Panther and AMD Barton w/ WinXP Pro equally (work and home). Given the choice, I'd buy the PC for personal use. Reason being if the PC malfunction, hardware or software, I can replace just the parts and reinstall the OS in 5 minutes (w/ ghost). Same thing happens to the Apple and you didn't get the totally expensive apple care plan, you've got a very expensive and dead POS.
Old 01-05-04, 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by FuzzyBallz
Same thing happens to the Apple and you didn't get the totally expensive apple care plan, you've got a very expensive and dead POS.
Even if you did buy the totally expensive apple care, you still have to wait 5 to 7 days for a ship in repair (and I beleive you have to pay the shipping)

When for a much less expensive Dell, I can have next day on site repair for 3 years at a nominal cost.



Apples are cute and they may still have a market in the graphics world (I don't know I am not in the graphics world). I can just say that ALL of the marketing/business developement people in my company were all HARD CORE DIE HARD MACHeads. We gave them PCs to 'play' with (really nice PCs, better than anyone elses).

Well after they collected much dust, some of them actually gave it a try. 99 percent of them are using PCs today and don't even want a MAC in their office anymore. The transition period for most took about a year.

Apple could have had EVERYTHING. They once had the better system (I use to be 100% Mac). Stupid business moves and arogance killed their chance. Way to go Jobs, you let a nerdy little geek like Gates checkmate you without much of a fight

Forget what platform can finish a task 3 seconds before the other, in more basic terms, PCs offer more flexability for less money and that is what the public/business world wants. More for less.
Old 01-05-04, 01:38 AM
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Ya what's the deal here. Nothing in your list made any sense. Have you ever used a mac before? I use them very rarely, and admit that I would never own one again (once owned a performa 578 back in 93) but that's because I play a lot of games and the like. I don't have a real use for a mac (IE editting, photoshop stuff, etc.)

I just got an Ipod and I think it's wonderful though. Very nice piece of machinery.
Old 01-05-04, 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by futbol
I'm certainly not pro-Mac, but all of your points are ridiculously exaggerated.
Ditto that.

The biggest drawback of the Mac, IMO, is the lack of the right button on the mouse. Even most of my friends that use the Mac (that are open minded enough to try a PC) admit that the right button on the PC is pretty handy.
Old 01-05-04, 03:30 AM
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Originally posted by namja
The biggest drawback of the Mac, IMO, is the lack of the right button on the mouse. Even most of my friends that use the Mac (that are open minded enough to try a PC) admit that the right button on the PC is pretty handy.
If that's your only reservation, then you'd be very happy with a Mac combined with any of the hundreds of 2+ button third-party USB mice that work plug-and-play in Mac OS X or Mac OS 9. You don't have to use the mouse (or keyboard) that Apple gives you, and I haven't for the past 5 years. I have a nice Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro and a Logitech MX 300 Optical Mouse.
Old 01-05-04, 04:23 AM
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Eh, I use a logitech wireless keyboard and mouse set w/ my G4, which is currently running Panther, as are the other G4s in the office. Panther's a good OS; very intuitive and user friendly, but so's WinXP Pro I use at home.

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