Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Tech Talk
Reload this Page >

Benchmark scores- If you've been waiting for a good price on the Raptor drives...

Tech Talk Discuss PC Hardware, Software, Internet and Other Technology

Benchmark scores- If you've been waiting for a good price on the Raptor drives...

Old 06-14-03, 07:04 PM
  #1  
X
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
If you've been waiting for a good price on the SATA WD Raptor drives...

check out Dell Small Business.

These drives are 36GB 10K RPM 8MB buffer with 5.2ms average access time. Essentially SCSI drives with an SATA interface.

http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/WD360GD.asp

They have two 15% off automatic coupons on them and you might also have an additional 5% coupon in your account.

I got two bare Raptors for $231 which includes CA tax and shipping. Best price I've seen anywhere else is $140 each +tax +shipping.

These are excellent drives for a motherboard that supports SATA, especially if it has built-in RAID. A RAID 0 configuration would be extremely fast!
Old 06-14-03, 07:34 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Blake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Orange
Posts: 7,737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Damn....sooooo wish I had $231 I'm planning on upgrading my computer this summer and these would be great. Perhaps they'll go down in price, but I really do need to RAID my main drive.
Old 06-14-03, 07:39 PM
  #3  
X
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Don't worry, they sure won't be going up in price. However this deal might be the best price for a couple of months. These particular drives just don't have any competition yet.
Old 06-14-03, 07:48 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Region 1
Posts: 16,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You will be at higher risk of losing your OS if you configure it as RAID 0. I have a few bad experiences with IDE drives setup as RAID 0 for my OS.
Old 06-14-03, 07:54 PM
  #5  
X
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by zuffy
You will be at higher risk of losing your OS if you configure it as RAID 0. I have a few bad experiences with IDE drives setup as RAID 0 for my OS.
That's always a possibility. But I always backup by making Ghost images so I'm not worried about that.

You can always go RAID 1 and have a mirrored pair, but I want the speed of RAID 0.
Old 06-14-03, 07:56 PM
  #6  
X
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Here's a Maxtor 200GB 8MB drive for under $100 after $120 rebate.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...=us&l=en&cs=04
Old 06-14-03, 08:00 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Region 1
Posts: 16,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Damn, so tempting. I've just got the Maxtor 160GB 8MB from the Staples deal last week for $80.
Old 06-14-03, 08:08 PM
  #8  
X
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
I just received the $30 WD 8MB 120GB from Office Max yesterday and I'm not sure where I'm going to put it -- my machines are crammed with drives. Eventually I'll have to consolidate my puny 120s with larger drives but that 160 just wasn't appealing enough with only 40GB more than a 120.

200GB is where I start thinking about it, 250 would be even better. But I don't know what to do with all the 120s I'd be replacing!
Old 06-14-03, 09:54 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: chokin' you out in less than 30 seconds
Posts: 10,634
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
get 3 and do a 0+1 array.....
Old 06-14-03, 09:55 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: chokin' you out in less than 30 seconds
Posts: 10,634
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
i would like to get a coupla 200 gig drives to move my mp3's to. i hate having to index so dedgum many cds all the time...
Old 06-14-03, 09:59 PM
  #11  
X
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by crankyman
get 3 and do a 0+1 array.....
Unfortunately my motherboard doesn't support that. And I wouldn't want to dedicate that many drives to just a workstation.

Anyway, wouldn't you need 4 to do that? 2 for the RAID 0 and 2 to mirror it?
Old 06-14-03, 10:19 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Region 1
Posts: 16,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by crankyman
get 3 and do a 0+1 array.....
You will need 4 for RAID 1+0. 2 Drives for striping and 2 drives to mirror the striping. I think you were thinking of RAID 5 requirement for RAID 1+0.
Old 06-15-03, 04:27 AM
  #13  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: HB, CA
Posts: 2,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm not sure if this is what he meant, but Crankyman's suggestion sort of gives me this idea. Set up 2 drives in a hardware striped set. Then take that volume and pair it with a 3rd drive in a software mirrored set.

Don't know if the drivers will let you do that or if there wouldn't be significant performance issues. Ideally, it'd give you the performance of a striped set with the redundancy of a mirrored set.
Old 06-15-03, 05:06 AM
  #14  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,454
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by belboz
I'm not sure if this is what he meant, but Crankyman's suggestion sort of gives me this idea. Set up 2 drives in a hardware striped set. Then take that volume and pair it with a 3rd drive in a software mirrored set.

Don't know if the drivers will let you do that or if there wouldn't be significant performance issues. Ideally, it'd give you the performance of a striped set with the redundancy of a mirrored set.
That is a pretty complex Raid configuration and can usually only be done on higher end storage units. Basically using some sort of mirroring application on the storage sub system to mirror the stripe set. Although there could be windows based software out there that can do it...just not sure I have seen any.

With that said though, striping is not really going to buy you much in performance because of limitations in NTFS. Over time it will perform slower and slower (granted not as much as a single volume or a concatenation of volumes) but slower non the less. This is due to the fact that NTFS is horrible in terms of fragmentation, and the "windows defrag" is just not sufficent.

If you are looking for the absolute best performance you want a Linux based SAN device that you can stripe over multiple volumes. It will use an UNIX file system that windows will allow you to map to. UNIX file systems are much more stable and do not suffer fragmentation in the least bit. You also have greater control over mount and export options to maxamize performance using a UNIX file system.

Also usually in addition to that you can use a "snap" type application that will make a meta data snapshot of the file system at specified points during the day and you can recover the file system from the snap if need be. And because it's just meta data it is very small. It's basically how the windows XP "recover from last good point.." works, only on a much grander scale.
Old 06-15-03, 10:25 AM
  #15  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Region 1
Posts: 16,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by belboz
I'm not sure if this is what he meant, but Crankyman's suggestion sort of gives me this idea. Set up 2 drives in a hardware striped set. Then take that volume and pair it with a 3rd drive in a software mirrored set.

Don't know if the drivers will let you do that or if there wouldn't be significant performance issues. Ideally, it'd give you the performance of a striped set with the redundancy of a mirrored set.
The only way you can do the software RAID 1 of the hardware RAID 0 is if the 3rd hard drive is equal or larger in disk size than the stripe set. Since the current largest Raptor is 36GB, you really don't want to do a software RAID 1 with any 72GB+ drive because of performance difference. Also, even if there is a 72GB Raptor, there will still be a performance difference. What is gonna happen is that the OS will slow down to the 72GB performance instead of the RAID 0. Using 4 identical drives is your best bet for performance and redundancy.

Last edited by zuffy; 06-15-03 at 10:29 AM.
Old 06-15-03, 10:44 AM
  #16  
Needs to provide a working email
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Formerly known as Darrin Garrison
Posts: 3,321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'll love it when someone makes a drive with the same specs in a decent capacity.
Old 06-15-03, 11:27 AM
  #17  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Second Star on the right, and straight on til' morning...
Posts: 14,804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You can't fit everything on a few 1.4mb floppies?
Old 06-15-03, 12:41 PM
  #18  
X
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by zuffy
The only way you can do the software RAID 1 of the hardware RAID 0 is if the 3rd hard drive is equal or larger in disk size than the stripe set. Since the current largest Raptor is 36GB, you really don't want to do a software RAID 1 with any 72GB+ drive because of performance difference. Also, even if there is a 72GB Raptor, there will still be a performance difference. What is gonna happen is that the OS will slow down to the 72GB performance instead of the RAID 0. Using 4 identical drives is your best bet for performance and redundancy.
Yeah, it would be worthless to have the RAID 0 setup then because the drive doing the RAID 1 would slow everything down to single drive performance.

RAID 0 doesn't just double the capacity, it speeds up the performance a lot. If it didn't speed up the performance you would just use a bigger drive and forget using a RAID 0 setup.
Old 06-15-03, 12:43 PM
  #19  
X
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by Darren Garrison
I'll love it when someone makes a drive with the same specs in a decent capacity.
I was wishing the drives would have less capacity as I only want my C drive to be RAID 0. Since it doesn't have fault-tolerance I need to back it up frequently. The less I keep on it the faster and smaller the backup.
Old 06-15-03, 08:55 PM
  #20  
dek
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: On the road to reclaiming Lord Stanleys Cup, Turlock CA
Posts: 11,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by X
But I don't know what to do with all the 120s I'd be replacing!
I'd be interested in 1 or 2 if the price is right
Old 06-16-03, 12:52 AM
  #21  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: HB, CA
Posts: 2,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yeah, you guys are probably right about the 3 drive setup. It was more an intellectual curiosity than anything I'd ever actually try to implement. And as zuffy pointed out, I overlooked the fact that the volume sizes would be mismatched as well.

Anyway, I'd love to see some benchmarks of a striped set of these drives. I wonder how it would compare to a single 15K RPM SCSI drive, because for $200, I can get a 18GB Seagate Cheetah 15K.3. And I'd agree with X in that capacity for these drives isn't a big issue, it's performance I'm interested in.

BTW, X, 120GB HD's go for anywhere from $80 to $100 on ebay. That's probably not a whole lot less than what you paid for them.
Old 06-16-03, 07:27 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Numanoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Down in 'The Park'
Posts: 27,882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by X
Here's a Maxtor 200GB 8MB drive for under $100 after $120 rebate.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...=us&l=en&cs=04
Where do you find the rebate for that?
Old 06-16-03, 09:39 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,454
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I found 120GB 7200 SATAs at a store here in Akihabara (Japan) for ~$100. Pretty good deal but only 7200RPM.
Old 06-16-03, 09:55 PM
  #24  
X
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by palebluedot
I found 120GB 7200 SATAs at a store here in Akihabara (Japan) for ~$100. Pretty good deal but only 7200RPM.
Probably bad average access times too. They're probably just regular IDE drives with an SATA interface. You can buy an IDE<->SATA converter for around $30, but it doesn't improve the performance.
Old 06-16-03, 09:59 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,454
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by X
Probably bad average access times too. They're probably just regular IDE drives with an SATA interface. You can buy an IDE<->SATA converter for around $30, but it doesn't improve the performance.
Ah...didn't think of that. I will have to go back and check.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.