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MCSE Win2K

Old 05-11-02, 11:23 AM
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MCSE Win2K

Anyone else here hold this certification? I just completed mine yesterday.

I hope it was worth the effort and expense!

RD
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Old 05-12-02, 12:28 PM
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To make your MCSE 2k worth the time and effort you have to put much more effort getting that first job and making that cert work for you. IMO, I think that getting certified is the easy part (not a flame) but getting into the industry can be much harder depending on your personal background and the industry that you are trying to get into. If you have no connections, no degree and no motivation to chase the opportunities then a cert won't help you much.

I did the Oracle 8 DBA cert and when I finished the bottom of the IT industry was going through major corrections .... now the industry is turning around. Good thing I have my degree so i'm working which keeps me busy but i'd like to access the IT sector someday soon. You can never stop learning the various complimentary technologies. I'm still learning Solaris and networking technologies myself.
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Old 05-12-02, 12:53 PM
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It's worth it if you have the skills and experience to back it up. Otherwise, you are nothing but a paper MCSE. Sorry if I offended you but I've seen too many paper MCSE think they know it all.
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Old 05-12-02, 07:24 PM
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I've been doing development for Microsoft platforms for several years, and I wanted to get a grounding in how their systems work as a whole. For too long, I was narrowly focused on C++ programming.

In addition to the MCSE cert, I hold the MCDBA and MCSD, along with a 2-year credential from a tech institute (for which I was given 2 years credit towards a BSc degree).

BTW a paper MCSE is someone who achieved the certification by taking short cuts and cheating, ie cram schools, Troytechs, and brain dumps. I used none of those techniques, relying instead on reading study guides cover-to-cover, practice exams, test labs, and studying the online docs. Passed every exam on the first try, which was good because I certainly couldn't afford to be paying that $125 exam fee any more than I had to.

RD
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Old 05-12-02, 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by DivxGuy
I've been doing development for Microsoft platforms for several years, and I wanted to get a grounding in how their systems work as a whole. For too long, I was narrowly focused on C++ programming.

In addition to the MCSE cert, I hold the MCDBA and MCSD, along with a 2-year credential from a tech institute (for which I was given 2 years credit towards a BSc degree).

BTW a paper MCSE is someone who achieved the certification by taking short cuts and cheating, ie cram schools, Troytechs, and brain dumps. I used none of those techniques, relying instead on reading study guides cover-to-cover, practice exams, test labs, and studying the online docs. Passed every exam on the first try, which was good because I certainly couldn't afford to be paying that $125 exam fee any more than I had to.

RD
That's cool. From your post, I thought you took the MCSE just to jump into the IT field.
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Old 05-13-02, 11:39 AM
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Re: MCSE Win2K

Originally posted by DivxGuy
Anyone else here hold this certification? I just completed mine yesterday.

I hope it was worth the effort and expense!

RD

I have it but don't view it as worth the effort or expense right now. Of course, I already have a job. If I were looking for one, I might value it a bit more.
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Old 05-13-02, 04:28 PM
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It cost me $US 1825 and three months of my time. I hope it wasn't a case of throwing good money after bad.

RD
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Old 05-14-02, 09:48 AM
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the last time we had an opening for entry level user support
i sent an email to the university, for the graduating seniors
and out of the first 24 resumes we received.. 20 of them were full mcse certified.. but upon interviewing them, they knew squat.
this is when I decided that the certifications have become way too watered down.
now everyone just memorizes braindumps and becomes paper mcses. The most important factor is actually knowing what your doing, and being able to express this to the person doing the interview.. although I guess the certification could help land an interview.

by the way.. we ended up not filling the position.. because non of the people really seemed acceptable.. hell, half of them couldnt identify a chip of ram
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Old 05-14-02, 11:18 AM
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I heard braindumps were a real problem with the old NT4 MCSE; supposedly Microsoft has addressed the problem by making the new exams tougher, with more questions, higher proportion of drop-and-connect and choose-all-that-apply, etc.

I noticed, though, that some of the users on Exam Notes were boasting about using a braindump product called Troytech to pass the exams (which didn't work all the time).

In my case, I used a number of books and study guides, the online documentation, and Transcender practice exams. I never even stole a peek at a braindump for any of my tests.

So many graduates of a 4-year university program couldn't even identify a chip of RAM? I thought science degrees were supposed to transform ordinary mortals into intellectual super-beings?

RD

Last edited by DivxGuy; 05-14-02 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 05-14-02, 11:26 AM
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I'm thinking of getting an MCSE if I can convince my employer to pay for the exams. I figure it'll only help me learn our systems that much more and I'll get a certification out of it.

I'm a web admin, but knowing the backend is always really helpful.
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Old 05-14-02, 11:35 AM
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Expect a lot of work - it took me 3 months of full-time independent study to get my MCSE/MCDBA, and I already had one of the seven exam out of the way.

RD
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Old 05-14-02, 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by DivxGuy
So many graduates of a 4-year university program couldn't even identify a chip of RAM? I thought science degrees were supposed to transform ordinary mortals into intellectual super-beings?

RD

Many CS degree programs don't address hardware at all... just programming and theory. In at least some cases they take the position that learning of that nature is more suited for technical schools and community college classes.
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Old 05-14-02, 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by DivxGuy
So many graduates of a 4-year university program couldn't even identify a chip of RAM? I thought science degrees were supposed to transform ordinary mortals into intellectual super-beings?

RD
exactly

as dead said.. so often, these people get through with nothing but book learning.. no hands on experience
i would hazard to guess, that the majority of the people we interviewed.. either didnt have home computers, or were running HP, compaq, or packard bell systems
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Old 05-14-02, 09:15 PM
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Yo'd wonder why they even go into the field in that case (no pun intended)?

RD
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Old 05-14-02, 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by DivxGuy
Yo'd wonder why they even go into the field in that case (no pun intended)?

RD
money money money
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Old 05-14-02, 09:32 PM
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My opinion of certs, especially of MS is that all many of them are is paid advertising for the company. They are too easy to get and in many cases they don't serve their purpose-some people who have them don't know what they're doing which in turn makes everyone look bad. I have the NT 4.0 cert and actually didn't even take the FREE upgrade to 2k. I had no interest in it and if I ever did want a job working with win2k, I know I have the skills to get the job with out needing a piece of paper saying I do. As for the original post, it sounds like you have more than enough experience on your resume and don't really need the mcse cert.
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Old 05-14-02, 11:40 PM
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sent an email to the university, for the graduating seniors
and out of the first 24 resumes we received.. 20 of them were full mcse certified.. but upon interviewing them, they knew squat.
BTW did these graduating seniors get their MCSEs via braindumps and cheating? Just wondering.

RD
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Old 05-15-02, 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by DivxGuy
BTW did these graduating seniors get their MCSEs via braindumps and cheating? Just wondering.

RD
thats the problem.. there is no way to know how anyone gets certified.. so its just assumed that everyone does it that way.
although, there are several classes being taught at the university, that count towards your major, and basically prepare you for different mcse certs, so I guess thats why the numbers are going up so high..
back when I was there.. there was only one class doing this, and it only taught network essentials.. if you took and passed the certification exam before the end of the quarter, you automatically get an A in the class, otherwise, you have to take the exams in the class and go by that grade.
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Old 05-17-02, 08:17 PM
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Well, whether it's worth anything or not, Microsoft got back to me today to tell me that the welcome kit (with the parchment, wallet card, and lapel pin) was ordered, and that I should receive it in 4-6 weeks, just in time to mark my first 12 months of unemployment.

RD
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Old 05-20-02, 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by DivxGuy
BTW a paper MCSE is someone who achieved the certification by taking short cuts and cheating, ie cram schools, Troytechs, and brain dumps. I used none of those techniques, relying instead on reading study guides cover-to-cover, practice exams, test labs, and studying the online docs. Passed every exam on the first try, which was good because I certainly couldn't afford to be paying that $125 exam fee any more than I had to.

RD
Wrong. A paper MCSE is someone without any real world experience with the covered technologies. If you have an MCSE and have yet to hold a job in the industry for at least a few years working with the products covered, you're paper. Plain and simple.

Unless your company is stupid enough to toss money in Microsoft's pockets, I'd actually avoid the certification. It's a waste of your money and any interviewer or technical manager worth a grain of salt would actually hire someone WITHOUT the certification as long as they could demonstrate the skillset required for the job. I've been involved with interviewing candidates for everything from entry level helpdesk positions to senior systems engineers and 99.9% of everyone that came through the door with an MCSE knew squat.

Do yourself a favor. Forget about your cert. Don't wave it proudly in front of co-workers... they'll think you're a dork. Cert's aren't "in" anymore. Get an entry level position and pay your dues in the trenches... that's where you'll actually learn something.
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Old 05-21-02, 09:52 AM
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the MCSE certs are almost completely worthless IMO

I'm MCSE on NT 4.0, btw
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Old 05-28-02, 05:52 PM
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[edit]

Last edited by DivxGuy; 11-11-02 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 11-11-02, 12:44 AM
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Unless your company is stupid enough to toss money in Microsoft's pockets, I'd actually avoid the certification.
I do believe you're right, sir. Alas, I, not a company, was the one stupid enough to toss the money in Microsoft's pockets.

Oh well, live and learn. Any of the rest of you out there, if you have $US 4 grand burning a hole in your pockets, and you're thinking of Micro$oft certification, do something prudent with it, like going to Las Vegas and having some fun, instead.

RD
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Old 11-11-02, 03:11 AM
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Originally posted by zuffy
It's worth it if you have the skills and experience to back it up. Otherwise, you are nothing but a paper MCSE. Sorry if I offended you but I've seen too many paper MCSE think they know it all.
and I am one of those people that fall in that category (paper MCSE)... though with NT4.0... but that's due to not being an IT professional.
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Old 11-11-02, 09:56 AM
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I tore up all my Microsoft certifications and threw them in the trash, along with the tacky lapel pins and wallet cards.

Apart from maybe CDI, they're probably the biggest fraud in education and training today.

RD
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