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What brand of CD-Rs do you recommend?

Old 04-23-02, 10:35 PM
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What brand of CD-Rs do you recommend?

For long term storage, and for short term storage.

I think that el cheapo CD-Rs are fine for short term storage but, due to the inferior dyes and processing, etc, just don't hold up that long.

For long term storage I believe that name brand CD-Rs are the way to go (and yes, you can get them cheaply at Best Buy and Circuit City when they are on sale), but it appears as though some brands, like TDK, actually buy disks from different manufacturers and then package them, some are good, others (Ritek?) are bad. What brands do you recommend for long term storage?

Are all CD-Rs that are made in Taiwan bad?
Old 04-23-02, 10:42 PM
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i prefer TDKs or Imation
Old 04-23-02, 10:58 PM
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I like TDK and Imation for day-to-day use, but the quality depends on who actually made the discs. Lately I've been using a software utility that identifies the manufacturer and it's surprising how many brands are actually made by the same companies.

TDK, for example, has its own high-quality factories, but the 32X discs I recently bought were made by Ritek, which makes most of the bargain-basement generic CD-Rs.

If you want to be guaranteed of really high quality, go with Taiyo Yuden or Mitsui. Mitsui are pretty expensive, though.

You can buy both brands for a reasonable price here: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cdrsavings/cdrmedia.html
Old 04-24-02, 01:23 AM
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Fujifilm
Made in Japan
Good stuff.
Old 04-24-02, 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by Mr. Salty
Lately I've been using a software utility that identifies the manufacturer and it's surprising how many brands are actually made by the same companies.
Hmmmm, care to share the name of this handy utility, or maybe provide a link?
Old 04-24-02, 03:15 AM
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I agree TY is good stuff
Old 04-24-02, 12:02 PM
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Imation 32x for me.
Old 04-24-02, 12:10 PM
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i generally try to buy disks that are made in japan. they seem to be mostly the taiyo's. mostly buy fuji's.

but i've had really good luck with imations and tdk's as well.

cranky.
Old 04-24-02, 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Mr_Shred


Hmmmm, care to share the name of this handy utility, or maybe provide a link?
CD-R Identifier
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/cd...identifier.cfm

--HN
Old 04-24-02, 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by HN


CD-R Identifier
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/cd...identifier.cfm

--HN
Thanks
Old 04-24-02, 01:06 PM
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The only CD-Rs I've ever had problems with are PNYs. Having said that, lately I'm becoming a Taiyo Yuden snob. So I'll buy Made In Japan...

TDK
HP
Fuji

when there's a good deal on them.
Old 04-24-02, 03:14 PM
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I've never had a problem with any Memorex that I've bought. On the other hand, I can hardly burn a disk made by Imation without making a coaster. It's a very odd problem. It could just be my burner, so find out what works for you.
Old 04-24-02, 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Mr_Shred
Hmmmm, care to share the name of this handy utility, or maybe provide a link?
HN beat me to it! Sorry, the early part of my work week keeps me from checking in as often as I should.

It really is a great little program. If you're running an older OS, you may have to follow the instructions for upgrading your ASPI driver, which took me all of two minutes to do.

I was shocked by what I started to discover after I began checking discs. The 32X TDK discs I've been using aren't made by TDK at all, they're made by Ritek, which used to be awful. I've heard they've improved. Imation is made by CMC Magnetics and I was surprised to find that Fuji wasn't made by who I thought they were (although who it actually was escapes me right now).

The HPs I checked were made by Taiyo Yuden.
Old 04-24-02, 10:17 PM
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whatever is on sale/free

Ive burnt literally thousands, and never had one go bad regardless whether its generic or name brand
Old 04-25-02, 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by twikoff
whatever is on sale/free

Ive burnt literally thousands, and never had one go bad regardless whether its generic or name brand
Yes, but will they still be good 50 years from now? Most things I won't care about 50 years from now, but since I've pretty much totally dumped film cameras and gone digital, it's a scary thought.
Old 04-25-02, 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by AndyCapps


Yes, but will they still be good 50 years from now? Most things I won't care about 50 years from now, but since I've pretty much totally dumped film cameras and gone digital, it's a scary thought.
do you really think you will be using compact disks 50 years from now?

i would be surprised if people are still using them 10 years from now, with the current prices of dvd recorders

and do you really think that because you pay extra for name brand blanks, they are going to last 50 years? or even any longer then generic? the only flaking of disks I have seen, has been on maxell brand gold disks, but I dont use those, so its not a problem for me...
eventually, all my data worth having, will be consolidated onto dvd media.. and the after that, onto whatever is the big thing at the time.. the media types dont last 50 years, so why would I care if the blanks do?
Old 04-25-02, 02:45 PM
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$10 is as high as I've paid for a 50 disc spindle(well, at least since prices have come down). I have had audio CDs I've burned on generic media mysteriously stop working. Even if everyone uses DVD in 10 years, the drives will still read CDs.

I honestly don't see anything totally replacing CDs. Music wise, I can't see the average album outgrowing the size limit of CDs. They don't(shouldn't) degrade like vinyl or cassettes.

But it is true that once I get a DVD recorder(or whatever else is next), I'll probably burn all of my important stuff to that media. Of course, I said the same thing about copying my old 3.5" floppies to CD and I've never bothered, but the only thing important I have on those other than some old Pascal code is probably my BBS pr0n disks.
Old 04-25-02, 06:52 PM
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I use whatever is available from my "cache" of tested blanks. That way, I can feel assured that whatever I buy will still keep the data a year or two later. Even the TDK and Imation blanks get tested because they tend to rebadge discs from other suppliers. I don't test Verbatim DataLifePlus retail ones because they aren't rebadged and declare their origin.

When I buy a spindle on sale, I will take two or three discs from it and burn onto it a set of large files for which I have their CRC. I then take the discs and put one in the sun and the other in a place that gets a lot of heat cycling. If I make a 3rd, that is usually in the case of extra-cheap media (one of those $9.95 50-disc spindles). After 30-days (or more), I give the disc several tests. One test is to check the CRC values to see if they have changed (data changed or lost). Another is to check "migration" where the Lands on each disc may have changed size or migrated. I have a "prized" very picky drive that I use to read the disks and any slight changes usually show up on it even though the CRC tests indicate that the disc is okay.

If the disc takes 30-days or more of exposure without error, then I move the spindle into a large cardboard box that I use as my "cache" of tested blanks. When I reach for a blank from my cache, I can feel some confidence.

Too Much Information Note #1: I noticed that CDRW changes more than CDR in testing.

Too Much Information Note #2: As for the "bad" ones that burn but don't have longevity, I have a separate box where I put those. Those discs are the ones I burn stuff onto and give away.... *wink* Now, if only those discs would give off smoke when they started decaying in several years, then they would be "mission impossible" ones.

Too Much Information Note #3: The soonest I've had data decay on data recorded on "test failed" batch of discs is six months and that was a CDRW not exposed to sun (just recorded onto it and put it aside). Various sectors all over the disc decayed (but not very many sectors). As for CDR, it took about one year before I noticed the first failure on a "test failed" batch. I don't have much more info as I hadn't set aside more test samples.

Last edited by Startide; 04-25-02 at 07:02 PM.
Old 04-26-02, 02:01 AM
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That's good info StarTide.

It's been generally known for quite a long time that cdrw media tend to be "less stable" than cdr media. From my days hanging out at alt.comp.periphs.cdr on UseNet way back when i've noticed along with others that earlier cdrw media (4x) tend to be more stable than more recent rw media. As to the particular reasons we can only guess.

The earliest I have had media fail on me has been 3 months. I burned a Maxell disc (Ritek) back in the early days when I didn't know any better about media. Within 3 months I could not access the data on that disc. It was properly stored and not exposed to sunlight. What a waste. Ritek, CMC Magnetics, Gigastorage etc all sucked back then although someone said that Ritek has gotten better lately ... i'll believe it when I see it.

Other than the Maxell branded Ritek I have not had any failures ... I believe this has all to do with my particular hardware and software setup and the choice of media I use.

My preferences for media are FujiFilm (Taiyo Yuden factory) - cheap and readily available, Kodak Gold, Silver, Silver and Gold - Kodak is out of the media business so this is holdover stock for me - Mitsui and some others.

Reading between the lines I like particular factories or manufacturers.

Taiyo Yuden, Kodak, Mitsui and the nice Mitsubishi Chemicals (some Verbatim etc ...)
Old 04-26-02, 03:34 AM
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*grin* It's like what everyone else is saying.... in a few more years, many of us will be migrating to DVD+RW drives for storage and the old CDROM will be relegated to AOL Version 13 Free 10,000 MegaByteHour offers.

So, I only need about 10 years longevity in the CDRs. I use formatted CDRW only for temporary backups where I need to keep rewriting them (to add new files).

Too Much Information Note #4: Formatted CDRW have definitely given me more errors than simply writing to CDRW as if they were CDRs. For those who are wondering, you can format a CDRW so that it looks like a 500MB giant floppy (or hard drive if you prefer that term). You can read and write and delete from it like a hard drive. However, it seems to be the most "fragile" version of storage for CDR technology. None of my CDRW discs (some up to three years so far) have not yet gone bad on me, but I have noticed that testing some of them on my "picky" drive has shown that some files are no longer readable on the picky drive, although those same files still remain readable on the original CDRW drive that burned them as well as other CDRW drives I have access to.

Too Much Information Note #5: My "picky" drive is a cdrom drive that had gone out of tolerance. I used the freeware Adaptec driver add-on that let non-cdrw drives read (but not write, of course) formatted cdrw discs. In this way, I can look at cdrw discs with a "picky eye". Because the drive is out of tolerance, any changes in the disc has a chance of, how shall I put it, a better chance of causing the disc to fail to be read by the drive if the disc or the Lands on it aren't "perfect". Realizing this, instead of tossing the out-of-spec cdrom drive, I have saved it for use.

Last edited by Startide; 04-26-02 at 03:41 AM.
Old 04-26-02, 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by bill_n_opus
My preferences for media are FujiFilm (Taiyo Yuden factory) - cheap and readily available
I'm a big Fuji fan but I've never tried their CDR media. I know that not all of Fuji's stuff comes from Taiyo Yuden. Is there a way to tell which is which before buying?
Old 04-29-02, 11:35 PM
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A lot of good information.

Here is another interesting link regarding CD quality. It is a little dated, but still useful:

http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware..._quality.shtml

And here is another CD-R identifier:

http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware...R%20Identifier

For example, for my Memorex', it gave me this information:

ATIP: 97m 26s 66f
Disc Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corp.
Recording Layer: Dye (Short Strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media Type: CD-Recordable
nominal Capacity: 702.38MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
From the first link, I see that as of a few years ago, CMC Magnetics Corp. was known for making low quality CD-Rs, but it could be worse (Ritek).

From a different board, here is a summary which pretty much matches what I have learned:

Good: Kodak Ultima, Verbatim Datalife Plus (jewel cases only, NOT spindles), Fuji, Mitsui, Ricoh Platnium should all be quality CD-Rs.

Unknown: You can no longer trust TDK, Imation, Verbatim (spindles), Maxell, Memorex, etc. to be quality.

Personally, Fuji seems to be on sale every few weeks, I think I will go with them for a while, though I have had no troubles with my Memorexes. Then again, I just bought them a month ago, so they haven't had a chance to decay or anything.

If nothing else, at least note where the disk was made. If it was made in Japan you are probably OK, if it was made in Taiwan you are probably getting a lower quality disk.
Old 04-30-02, 05:13 AM
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The VerbatimDataLifePLUS have switched over to being made in Mexico. Their prices at Sam's Club have dropped down to about $15 per 50 discs (100 disc spindles).
Old 04-30-02, 06:01 AM
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I'm a big Fuji fan but I've never tried their CDR media. I know that not all of Fuji's stuff comes from Taiyo Yuden. Is there a way to tell which is which before buying?
Yes. Actually, FujiFilm has been OEM'ing pretty much, if not all their recent cdr's to the Taiyo Yuden Factory (haven't seen any other factory yet) and they've been blowing them out sale-wise the last couple of years with sales and rebates galore. I was thinking for awhile that maybe we would start seeing a drop off in quality possibly ... but this hasn't been the case with almost total unanimity from all users testifying to quality of burn and reliabilty. Weird. This is not supposed to happen in the real world.

So, I think that FujiFilm must be subsidizing their dominance (duh!) in the media market in the last couple of years.

Anyways, the point of all this is that you can be rest assurred that all late FujiFilm cdrs that are labeled "made in Japan" as ben TY's. Heck, any cdrs that have this label I would buy as I have not heard in all these years of a crappy factory from Japan.

The main way to find out is to use programs that identify the information on the ATIP, the inner groove of the cdr. Programs like cdridentifier and whatnot. Try www.cdrinfo.com for all these programs. The only slight problem with this is that some factories are sloppy and make mistakes with applying the proper ATIP info so i've heard.
Old 04-30-02, 05:05 PM
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While the ATIP is generally reliable, there is nothing that keeps one of the companies from simply putting in any ol' company's name. For example, one of the cheapie companies in mainland china might conceivably say their discs were Taiyo Yuden just as they have factories over there making Nike or Adidas or Boeing or Microsoft or Disney or authentic $25 Rolex watches.

So, it is always important to keep your ears and eyes open if there are any reports of people having problems with some batches of discs.

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