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Switching From PC to MAC --- ADVICE??

Old 04-22-02, 02:52 AM
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Switching From PC to MAC --- ADVICE??

I want to switch from PC to MAC. Any mac heads or former mac heads out there. Give me some feed back.

Gary
Gary's Photos

Last edited by Speak Gary; 04-22-02 at 02:55 AM.
Old 04-22-02, 03:30 AM
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What are you looking to do with the machine?
Old 04-22-02, 11:03 AM
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Don't be surprised when parts cost more than you're used to now.
Old 04-22-02, 11:07 AM
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Why do you want to switch? In my experience--primarily in publishing--the Mac and PC are on fairly level "playing ground."
Old 04-22-02, 12:29 PM
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danw makes a good point. WHY do you want to switch? Is there anything that a Mac can offer that a PC cannot?
Old 04-22-02, 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by danw
Why do you want to switch? In my experience--primarily in publishing--the Mac and PC are on fairly level "playing ground."
2 reasons to switch for me:
i have money to burn
i want final cut pro

although i want to use final cut pro, i don't have the money...
Old 04-22-02, 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by danw
... In my experience--primarily in publishing--the Mac and PC are on fairly level "playing ground."
i think its a matter of preferences, but i think that the macs offer more stability and effieciency in rendering graphics and printing rips. (plus, as an added advantage, no microsoft... yet....). and the new imacs have a cool design....

but, i have found that the costs of both software and hardware are in favor of the pc plus apple has the tendency to limit upgradability in the name of new technology.

i agree with danw, it all evens out.... ( apple quibble: whats the deal with apple and mac-associated softwares steering more towards music, video and web rather than maintaining and growing their customers in the publishing and print fields. i am really frustrated)

SG, as a resource in getting the most for your mac$, check here for configurations and mac upgrades...

good luck
Old 04-22-02, 01:46 PM
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I am a PC-head through and through, but I'm going to be getting a Mac system in a year or so for a home editing system.

I am a video editor, and we use edit* by discreet, and we are adding a final cut pro/dvd studio system soon. I want to be able to do some free-lance projects from home, and the main advantage is I can set up something comparable to our $15,000+ edit* system for about $6000, with a Canon GL1 camera to boot.

Macs DEFINITELY have an advantage of PCs when it comes to fully-intergrated editing and DVD production.
Old 04-22-02, 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by bluestar
i think its a matter of preferences, but i think that the macs offer more stability and effieciency in rendering graphics and printing rips. (plus, as an added advantage, no microsoft... yet....). and the new imacs have a cool design....
Believe it or not (and this surprises me, too), we get a lot better performance and a lot fewer problems using PCs to render and create PS, and our PC-based Harlequin RIP has done nothing but wonders for us. I'm happy I convinced management to switch from Macs to PCs!
Old 04-22-02, 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by draven-x
Macs DEFINITELY have an advantage of PCs when it comes to fully-intergrated editing and DVD production.
If Speak Gary is looking to do some video editing and production work, then I agree whole-heartedly. Aside from that venue, however, I think I'd urge him to stick to the PC--simply because he already has it.
Old 04-22-02, 05:02 PM
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I was the biggest "Mac head" for 9 years (I was a hardcore mac developer too) but I made the switch to PCs a few years ago..occasionally, I would miss something but in general I can't belive the amount of software available for the PC...

I feel very handicapped when i use the Mac now.. especially OSX where there is not a whole lot of compatible software available right now..

--mike
Old 04-22-02, 06:12 PM
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My best advice would be to get a Mac Support manual or something. I used to have one at work called the Mac Bible and it really made troubleshooting easier cause they really do tend to have problems that are hard to decipher. That's coming from a full-time PC user anyway.
Other than that, just make sure you have a lot of tolerence and patience.
Old 04-22-02, 10:16 PM
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WOW

Thanks everyone.

That was helpful advice. I was actually looking to buy a digital camera too and do some video editing and that was definitely one of many things I was thinking of including my little web design stuff (however PC has operated just fine on that).

I dunno. The price is the only thing that is holding me back. My thought was that after a year or two if I did not like it (THE MAC SWITCH) I could just switch back to the PC platform. I was just curious what everyone felt the strengths and weaknesses were.

Nothing happens until June for me. Heck need that much time save the cash since I was going to buy dual G4 with the 22 or 23 inch screen. God help me on buying the software. *yikes*

If you are gonna do it though, do it right!


Gary
Old 04-23-02, 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by danw
Why do you want to switch? In my experience--primarily in publishing--the Mac and PC are on fairly level "playing ground."
I'm looking to do the same thing. Thanks for the thread... As for this question, the answers are pretty clear for me:

1) Stability and Security!
2) I need a laptop, don't have one (G4 looks nice!)
3) Stability and Security!!!
4) I want a Unix box that will have decently priced commercial apps available for it (i.e. Photoshop, etc.).
5) STABILITY and SECURITY!
6) I want to not have to buy MKS tools for the next computer I buy since they are now trying to charge huge extra amounts for support to get any kind of upgrades for the buggy release I got recently. With OS/X I won't need this!
7) Did I say STABILITY AND SECURITY!!!
8) I don't want to have Pay Per Use Windows XP allowed in my house.

Anyway, enough of my reasons. If anyone knows of decent deals on G4 Laptops without California state tax and/or low shipping rates, let me know. I might also be interest in some cheap financing, though I see that Apple is using MBNA for it's financing plans which has financing rates from 8.99% to 26%. Expect it to jump up to the latter as soon as they are able with that bank. I have some credit card balances I'm trying to move off of some credit cards from them that are pretty exhorbitant too.

One other thing that might be worth knowing. I asked around some of the companies on which ones provide cross-platform upgrades (if you have a big investment in PC software like I do). I found out that Adobe does offer them, though they don't talk about it a lot, which works for most of the expensive apps like Photoshop that I need to convert over to use on a Mac. I'll just get the 7.0 upgrade for the Mac later.

Unfortunately Macromedia isn't as helpful in this regard (so I told them it will be a while before I consider getting a new version of Fireworks or Dreamweaver from them and will switch to upgrading my GoLive license instead.

BTW, if you need a digital camera, Apple currently is offering a $100 rebate if you buy a Nikon Coolpix 775 digital camera with it. Don't need a camera myself, but perhaps this helps.

Last edited by DVDealer; 04-23-02 at 02:16 AM.
Old 04-23-02, 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by DVDealer


I'm looking to do the same thing. Thanks for the thread... As for this question, the answers are pretty clear for me:

1) Stability and Security!
2) I need a laptop, don't have one (G4 looks nice!)
3) Stability and Security!!!
4) I want a Unix box that will have decently priced commercial apps available for it (i.e. Photoshop, etc.).
5) STABILITY and SECURITY!
6) I want to not have to buy MKS tools for the next computer I buy since they are now trying to charge huge extra amounts for support to get any kind of upgrades for the buggy release I got recently. With OS/X I won't need this!
7) Did I say STABILITY AND SECURITY!!!
8) I don't want to have Pay Per Use Windows XP allowed in my house.

Anyway, enough of my reasons. If anyone knows of decent deals on G4 Laptops without California state tax and/or low shipping rates, let me know. I might also be interest in some cheap financing, though I see that Apple is using MBNA for it's financing plans which has financing rates from 8.99% to 26%. Expect it to jump up to the latter as soon as they are able with that bank. I have some credit card balances I'm trying to move off of some credit cards from them that are pretty exhorbitant too.

One other thing that might be worth knowing. I asked around some of the companies on which ones provide cross-platform upgrades (if you have a big investment in PC software like I do). I found out that Adobe does offer them, though they don't talk about it a lot, which works for most of the expensive apps like Photoshop that I need to convert over to use on a Mac. I'll just get the 7.0 upgrade for the Mac later.

Unfortunately Macromedia isn't as helpful in this regard (so I told them it will be a while before I consider getting a new version of Fireworks or Dreamweaver from them and will switch to upgrading my GoLive license instead.

BTW, if you need a digital camera, Apple currently is offering a $100 rebate if you buy a Nikon Coolpix 775 digital camera with it. Don't need a camera myself, but perhaps this helps.
not really sure why mac users always say stability and security are reasons to get a mac.

a pc user can have a stable and secure computer. I know i do.

I do not do major video editing. However the only reason that the Mac seems better is due to software support in that niche field. Programs could run just as fast on high end pc's as high end mac's.
Old 04-23-02, 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by gcribbs


not really sure why mac users always say stability and security are reasons to get a mac.

a pc user can have a stable and secure computer. I know i do.

I do not do major video editing. However the only reason that the Mac seems better is due to software support in that niche field. Programs could run just as fast on high end pc's as high end mac's.
I'm more traditionally a PC and UNIX user than a Mac user. So I haven't *always* liked a Mac. But everything I see and hear about OS X has my mouth drooling.

When Quicken is constantly complaining about being out of memory when I try to start it up after killing off almost every application on Win98 and I have 128 MB onboard, there's something seriously wrong with garbage collection in this OS. Virtual memory it is not when it is so dependent on that narrow band of "USER resources" memory that fills up so quickly that is independent of the rest of your system's memory and how much of it you have. IE is a memory pig that doesn't give up much of the memory it grabs once it chews it up.

As for security, we all know about Outlook viruses of course. One thing about XP that is waiting to "bite" people is the ability to allow almost any program to write to raw network sockets. Older Windows systems haven't done this. Win2K, NT, and UNIX OS's do it, but only certain processes running or owned by root will do so. It's just a matter of time when someone let's loose a virus that will bring the net to it's knees when it exploits this hole on people's default installed home XP setups and then MS will reply that it is time for everyone to move to it's proprietary TCP/MS instead of what it will call older TCP/IP networks as "insecure" to fix things.
Old 04-23-02, 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by DVDealer


I'm more traditionally a PC and UNIX user than a Mac user. So I haven't *always* liked a Mac. But everything I see and hear about OS X has my mouth drooling.

When Quicken is constantly complaining about being out of memory when I try to start it up after killing off almost every application on Win98 and I have 128 MB onboard, there's something seriously wrong with garbage collection in this OS. Virtual memory it is not when it is so dependent on that narrow band of "USER resources" memory that fills up so quickly that is independent of the rest of your system's memory and how much of it you have. IE is a memory pig that doesn't give up much of the memory it grabs once it chews it up.

As for security, we all know about Outlook viruses of course. One thing about XP that is waiting to "bite" people is the ability to allow almost any program to write to raw network sockets. Older Windows systems haven't done this. Win2K, NT, and UNIX OS's do it, but only certain processes running or owned by root will do so. It's just a matter of time when someone let's loose a virus that will bring the net to it's knees when it exploits this hole on people's default installed home XP setups and then MS will reply that it is time for everyone to move to it's proprietary TCP/MS instead of what it will call older TCP/IP networks as "insecure" to fix things.
tips on memory. make the max and minimum vitual memory setting the same at roughly 2 to 2.5 times your ram amount so for you 256 to 320 MB. this will fix many issues I had with windows memory problems. I also run msconfig and only load the bare minimum at boot up since most things that load do not need to load.

I run win 98se and win 2k and really have almost no issues with it. the biggest problem is that most pc users install far too much junk on their computers. causing all sorts of problems.

I do not trust MS. However I just can not deal with the lack of flexability in the Mac universe either.
Old 04-23-02, 04:05 AM
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Switching from PC to Mac -------- Go see a shrink ------ You are crazy. I hate Apple and Macs (worthless junk). I have one at work that you have to unplug to reboot.
Old 04-23-02, 11:19 AM
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I have to agree with gcribbs here. If you want stability and security, you can most definitely get that with Windows. I run Windows 2000 (upgrading to XP soon) and my computers never, ever crash. My brother's computer used to crash all the time with Win98, but since upgrading to 2000, not a one problem (plus, I've told him not to install all his crap on it). People go on the internet and start downloading anything and everything they can, not realizing the consequences.

Also, with RAM prices so cheap now, there's really no excuse for only having 128 megs of RAM. With more and more useful applications on the web, and applications taking up more and more RAM, it's almost a requirement to have 256 megs. Even the lowest-end G4 has 256, and the high end G4 has 1.5 gigs!

If you're set on a mac, have fun. I use them in the labs on campus (just to surf the web) and haven't had any problems yet, but I'm definitely not ready to give up the customizeability, number of programs, and the stability and security I get with my Win2k machine.
Old 04-23-02, 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by DVDealer

... If anyone knows of decent deals on G4 Laptops ...
i have found some deals at lowendmacs.com. they have "how-to" guides for converting lower-end mac laptops into g4 ibooks for less than the cost of a new one. the kits are pretty decently priced as well. check sonnettech.com for G3/G4 conversion kits.


Originally posted by GMLSKIS
...I have one at work that you have to unplug to reboot.
look for a reset button either on the front of the case or behind it, it might be one that you need a paperclip to engage. also on the older keyboards apple + shift + startup will restart.

(i dont know why apple removed the startup key from the keyboard.)
Old 04-23-02, 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by gcribbs
tips on memory. make the max and minimum vitual memory setting the same at roughly 2 to 2.5 times your ram amount so for you 256 to 320 MB. this will fix many issues I had with windows memory problems. I also run msconfig and only load the bare minimum at boot up since most things that load do not need to load.
I already have it configured to a virtual memory space of 438 MB. Where apps have problems is not here, as I have 320 MB free at the moment. It is with GDI and USER Resources space which is a fixed sized part of your memory space that many applications need for things like 16 bit applications, graphics device interface, etc. This is *very* small due to it's homage/compatibility with older OS's and therefore can get one in trouble when it fills up, no matter how many 100's of megabytes in RAM you might have free. Adding more memory might help things run faster with less swapping, etc., but it won't help me with resource usage. That's a flaw built into the OS for compatibility (like segmented address space was) that OS's like UNIX don't have.

I run win 98se and win 2k and really have almost no issues with it. the biggest problem is that most pc users install far too much junk on their computers. causing all sorts of problems.
Yes, if you only run a few applications such as a word processor, mail program, etc. perhaps WinX can be kept stable. For power users who need to run many different things (Adobe and Macromedia apps, development apps, MKS tools, etc.) I'd like an OS that doesn't let application installs mangle the OS install so much that it destabilizes the operating system as a standard operating procedure. Sometimes it's just one app that can create problems (not gobs of apps). Try installing certain versions of EZ CD Creator 5 on Win98 SE and it assumes that you are running the original original Win98 and replaces many system files it shouldn't and their support says they need to do this. It *will* break your system if you're not careful and force a reinstall of your OS.

I do not trust MS. However I just can not deal with the lack of flexability in the Mac universe either.
I'm not sure what is "not flexible" about a Mac. I was talking more about stability than flexibility. If "flexibility" is the number of apps available, that can change over time as the new OS gets mature. I don't need them all immediately as I'll just use my Win98 machine as a secondary machine instead of my primary desktop to run things I can't get for a Mac. OS X is already pretty stable as most I talk to leave it running for weeks/months with no problems. It's hard to run Win98 more than a day or two as a primary desktop without having to reboot. OS X should only get more stable as apps become carbonized as native OS X apps instead of running as older apps in emulation mode. If you were to only run Win16 apps on Win98, you'd have a similar problem (especially with the Resources mentioned above). Since I don't have much older Apple software and have an extra PC or two in my house, I can add apps as they become carbonized and not have to get everything at once.


Originally posted by GMLSKIS
Switching from PC to Mac -------- Go see a shrink ------ You are crazy. I hate Apple and Macs (worthless junk). I have one at work that you have to unplug to reboot.
Thanks for the "constructive" criticism.... I'm guessing the system you're speaking of is an older Mac running a pre OS-X OS. Yes, I wouldn't move to an earlier Mac, which is why I've stayed on PC's for many years and avoided the OS that would force me to use a non-OS bundled utility (copy doubler) to do something as simple as copying files in the background while doing something else. OS X changes the equation for me.

My main reason for having WinXX as an OS on my existing machines is the ability to run commercial applications. I have many I have over the years including many games. With Win2K, I might gain in stability, but lose in compatibility. To gain stability at the cost of compatibility, I'd rather move to UNIX. I already have Linux, which runs without a glitch running apache, etc. on it that I want to have a server for. With a Mac, I get the ability to get decent commercial apps to run on the same system that has all of the UNIX shells, and other utilities that I use day to day. Ever want to monitor log file activity on something that's running? UNIX has had that for years with "tail -f". I have to use MKS tools on WinX to get that functionality.

I might move to Win2k at some point as it is a lot more stable than Win98. However, MS's endgame is to get you to switch to XP from that OS. There's a lot about XP that I think is a step back for the consumer. I don't think I want a subscription model OS. I'd rather leverage the software investments I've made and not continually shell out more money.

Last edited by DVDealer; 04-23-02 at 12:22 PM.
Old 04-24-02, 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by DVDealer

When Quicken is constantly complaining about being out of memory when I try to start it up after killing off almost every application on Win98 and I have 128 MB onboard, there's something seriously wrong with garbage collection in this OS. Virtual memory it is not when it is so dependent on that narrow band of "USER resources" memory that fills up so quickly that is independent of the rest of your system's memory and how much of it you have. IE is a memory pig that doesn't give up much of the memory it grabs once it chews it up.
Well, simply get a new OS like Win2k or XP. You talk about a not so old OS (OSX) and then talk about an old OS (Win98).

Originally posted by DVDealer

As for security, we all know about Outlook viruses of course.
Yeah, that I was I NEVER used Outlook. I used Win95, 98, 98SE, ME and XP Pro without using Outlook. Outlook is irrelevant to the OS (yes it comes on the Win CD but you don't have to install it) and it is simply an e-mail program

Originally posted by DVDealer
One thing about XP that is waiting to "bite" people is the ability to allow almost any program to write to raw network sockets. Older Windows systems haven't done this. Win2K, NT, and UNIX OS's do it, but only certain processes running or owned by root will do so. It's just a matter of time when someone let's loose a virus that will bring the net to it's knees when it exploits this hole on people's default installed home XP setups and then MS will reply that it is time for everyone to move to it's proprietary TCP/MS instead of what it will call older TCP/IP networks as "insecure" to fix things.
There are many ways to easily close raw socket. The easiest is simply to go to grc.com and download their freeware program. That is a .exe that doesn't even need to be installed.
Old 04-24-02, 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by Real Boba Fett
Well, simply get a new OS like Win2k or XP. You talk about a not so old OS (OSX) and then talk about an old OS (Win98).
As I noted before, my primary purpose of having Windows is compatibility with older apps such as games, etc. If I were to switch to Win2k or XP, I'd have a similar tradeoff in losing compatibility with other WinX apps. Therefore, I'd keep my old Win98 system for playing old games, etc. and switch to a new OS to do my day-to-day stuff to avoid the constant crash/reboots. The question is which OS to switch to. I prefer UNIX as a "working" OS as I'm used to using it, and it does many things for me local and remote shells, etc. that I use all of the time. That gives the Mac a plus from that standpoint now.

I still feel from what I've heard that even though Win2K and XP may be miles ahead of Win98 in terms of stability, that a Unix-derivative system like OS X or Linux is more secure and stable than Win2k or XP. Apps still install assuming they can write to many parts of the OS they shouldn't in WinXX systems when they install themselves, whether it is Win98 or Win2k which can get users in trouble with older or version mismatched system .DLLs that third parties at times think incorrectly they should be replacing.

Though MS has improved things from NT to Win2k in terms of being able to temporarily launch Administrator access to do things while logged in as another user, many users still feel the need to run everything as Administrator to work effectively (and this includes a user that I just talked to today on XP complaining about non-Administrator logins not being able to bring up Quicken). Most UNIX setups can be run effectively without running the X Server as root user, making them a lot less susceptible to viruses messing things up or even accidental catastrophes by careless users.

Yeah, that I was I NEVER used Outlook. I used Win95, 98, 98SE, ME and XP Pro without using Outlook. Outlook is irrelevant to the OS (yes it comes on the Win CD but you don't have to install it) and it is simply an e-mail program
I only use Outlook at work where I have to (it will *NEVER* invade my home). In two companies where there came a point where we "had to" use Outlook, the very next day after we switched, a virus went rampant in the office. Outlook is just one example of insecure software that MS produces. Another is web server software like IIS. For something that's a lot less prevalent than Apache on servers on the net, it seems a lot more prone to worms like "Code Red" than Apache is. I'd like a setup where I'm using Apache and other open source/GPL packages and not use things like IIS which I don't trust security-wise and I don't prefer anyway.

There are many ways to easily close raw socket. The easiest is simply to go to grc.com and download their freeware program. That is a .exe that doesn't even need to be installed.
I'm sure there's many ways of making your system "safe" out there from raw socket virus attacks. My point mainly was that if Home Win XP comes by default configured such that it would allow rogue Active-X viruses or the like to write to raw sockets to do nasty things, the vast majority of users not prepared to deal with that sort of thing will be the main victims and victimize the rest of us by loading internet bandwidth with net storms in the process. Much like MS was also stupid in the way they set up default configurations of Outlook to automatically launch active-X attachments in incoming email too which is why most email viruses have spread so rampantly.
Old 04-25-02, 03:29 AM
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look for a reset button either on the front of the case or behind it, it might be one that you need a paperclip to engage. also on the older keyboards apple + shift + startup will restart.

(i dont know why apple removed the startup key from the keyboard.) [/B][/QUOTE]

Sorry but trust me these tips do not work on this worthless Apple half the time. Half the time like I said before the ONLY way is to unplug and replug. I HATE MACS!
Old 04-25-02, 05:17 AM
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Dont forget about that horrible round mouse. And they kept that for a few generations of iMacs as well. Morons.

Personally I think the only good thing apple have made are those lovely widescreen monitors, the harmon kardon speakers and the iPod. Everything else blows. I should know. I used to be a network admin for a mac network.

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