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Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Old 12-17-10, 12:36 AM
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Before i dispute a buy on eBay...

I recently purchased an old school Technics receiver on eBay and got it today.
No manual no big deal. Wasnt stated in the item description though. It also didnt come with the remote or AC power cord which also wasnt stated. I sent the seller a msg saying "Where is the remote, power cord, and users manual? Nowhere in the item description did you state these things would not be included and it should've been. You can either issue me a partial refund ($30 would be fair) or I can return the item back to you for a full refund."

He replied saying
"I can send along a power cable if necessary. Typically when accessories are included with used items its stated. The remote was never in my possession, nor did I indicate that it would be included. I don't mind working out a partial refund but I don't accept that the receiver is advertised as misleading. Let me know what you think. Thanks and I apologize for any inconvenience."

I disagree. With me it's the other way around. If accessories with used items ARE NOT included then it should be stated. I've been selling on eBay since the beginning and have always stated if some of the original accessories are not included. He seems to be cooperating but after I hooked up the receiver to make sure it works, I found there is no built in tuner. I thought a receiver ALWAYS has a built in tuner and if it doesn't then that makes it an amplifier. The item was titled "TECHNICS SU-G91 Integrated Stereo Amplifier Receiver".
What does everyone think?

Last edited by JZ1276; 12-17-10 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 12-17-10, 01:23 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Send that shit back that chump will never win. Case closed son!
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Old 12-17-10, 07:26 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Send it back.

I've sold a lot of used stuff on eBay, and if something was missing I would always put that in the description.
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Old 12-17-10, 10:08 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

If you can get a full refund by returning it, I say go for it because I think you're in the wrong. You can't assume something's included for a used item unless it's specifically stated in the ad.

Unless the ad stated this was "complete" or something like that, the seller's in the right.
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Old 12-17-10, 12:28 PM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Originally Posted by ben12 View Post
If you can get a full refund by returning it, I say go for it because I think you're in the wrong. You can't assume something's included for a used item unless it's specifically stated in the ad.

Unless the ad stated this was "complete" or something like that, the seller's in the right.
I disagree. If its not included it should be mentioned in the ad.
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Old 12-17-10, 12:52 PM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Originally Posted by ben12 View Post
If you can get a full refund by returning it, I say go for it because I think you're in the wrong. You can't assume something's included for a used item unless it's specifically stated in the ad.

Unless the ad stated this was "complete" or something like that, the seller's in the right.


You must be selling a ton of wii/x-box/ps3 system boxes this year. By your logic all I would have to do is list a item and not state complete and I would be "in the right"
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Old 12-17-10, 12:54 PM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

I looked at the auction. I kind of think it's scummy, but he took two pictures that showed just the unit. The listing never made representation that any accessories came with it. You got exactly what was advertised. I'd be inclined to say the auction should stand as is.
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Old 12-17-10, 02:48 PM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

If I buy a used item, the assumption is that it includes everything that came in the box, including manual and all accessories. Unless stated otherwise.
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Old 12-17-10, 06:44 PM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

I believe I've found the auction here.

At first, I would have agreed with ben12 about it not being included unless it specifically says it, but the seller does state this:

This receiver works properly and is in very good condition.
If there is no power cord, it cannot possibly work properly. That, at a minimum, should have been included and (in my opinion) you have a right to have that included. Obviously, the seller has a power cord, because he claims it works properly and therefore must have tested it.

The manual, however, I don't agree with. Nowhere does it say the manual would be included, and you cannot possibly expect it to be on something that is 17 years old.

And the same thing with the remote. It is "old school" as you mentioned, and sometimes you just have to walk across the room and change the channel on something that is "old school." Most universal remotes would easily be able to handle something like this.

To sum it up .... Yes to the power cord, no to the rest, unless it says it's included in the auction.
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Old 12-17-10, 06:57 PM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Originally Posted by OmahaStar View Post
I believe I've found the auction here.

At first, I would have agreed with ben12 about it not being included unless it specifically says it, but the seller does state this:



If there is no power cord, it cannot possibly work properly. That, at a minimum, should have been included and (in my opinion) you have a right to have that included. Obviously, the seller has a power cord, because he claims it works properly and therefore must have tested it.

The manual, however, I don't agree with. Nowhere does it say the manual would be included, and you cannot possibly expect it to be on something that is 17 years old.

And the same thing with the remote. It is "old school" as you mentioned, and sometimes you just have to walk across the room and change the channel on something that is "old school." Most universal remotes would easily be able to handle something like this.

To sum it up .... Yes to the power cord, no to the rest, unless it says it's included in the auction.
I really dont care about the manual or the remote, as long as all the functions are on the receiver itself. I still think he shouldve stated they are not included though. My main gripe with him is that he advertises it as a receiver and that there is no built in tuner.
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Old 12-17-10, 07:32 PM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
If I buy a used item, the assumption
And that's where you instantly fail. You do know what assuming gets you? Now combine that with shopping on ebay. How could you possibly go wrong

If I don't see something listed, I don't assume it'll be there. I don't expect to get something that isn't in an auction, especially if it's not listed as new.
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Old 12-17-10, 10:36 PM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Originally Posted by OmahaStar View Post
I believe I've found the auction here.
If the above link is the correct auction in question, then here are my comments. For the record, I have never bought or sold anything on ebay and I do not own any stock in the company either. I am also NOT familiar with this particular item.

Where do I begin? There is so much to say...

I am not taking sides with either the buyer or seller. This is just a pair of fresh eyes looking at the situation.

The seller titles the auction as "TECHNICS SU-G91 Integrated Stereo Amplifier Receiver"

The item is mislabled. The picture clearly shows the item and the name in the upper left hand corner of the unit says: Technics Stereo Integrated Amplifier SU-G91. "

This item is an NOT a receiver. You can also tell this by looking at the picture. Also, you can Google it and all the descriptions about the SU-G91 says it is an amplifier only, not a receiver.

The item is used. The 2 pictures show only the amplifier itself. No accessories are shown or mentioned in the description. There is no reasonable basis that an owners manual, remote or power cord would be included in the price.

I noticed that at the bottom of the auction there is a place/procedure where a potential bidder could ask a question. Why didn't the buyer ask the seller if the remote, owners manual and power cord is part of the sale???? just to be sure.

A quick Google search (wow! Google is real handy) would have shown that a remote for the SU-G91 can be purchased for $85, the owners manual is $13 and the power cord is $10.

http://www.technics.newremotecontrol...um=RAK-SA902MH


Not sure how ebay would handle this sort of situation. The seller clearly mislabled the title of the auction, but a quick look at the item picture shows that the item is an amplifier and NOT a receiver. If there was any doubt, the buyer should have asked the seller a question in the space provided.

The provenance of the item is not mentioned. A quick look at the sellers other items indicate that the seller probably buys stuff for resale on ebay. He probably gets stuff from garage sales, lawn sales, dumpster diving, thrift shops etc. The buyer should have asked if the owners manual, power cord and remote are included. After all, the item is used and there is no mention of those items in the description or in the picture.

The buyer is now asking for a $30 credit. If the buyer wants to buy the accessories he feels should have come with the amplifier, it will cost him $108 plus shipping. (See link above).

Conclusion: The seller clearly mislabled the auction, but a quick look at the picture provided showed the item to be an amplifier only. The buyer could have done 2 minutes of due diligence on Google on the item to confirm this info. The buyer assumed that the remote, owners manual and power cord are included? Those items were not listed as part of the auction in the description and not shown in the picture. Again, why didn't the buyer use the ask the seller feature at the bottom of the auction to be sure? After all, it is your hard earned money that you are spending? It would have taken only a minute or two to ask the question....

Wow, I see fault on both sides....

Last edited by DeepSleep; 12-17-10 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 12-18-10, 12:12 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Another thing ... How much time did you spend studying this auction? It appears that you placed your first bid less than two minutes before it ended. Ended at 16:32:01, your first bid was at 16:30:35, so about a minute and a half before it ended, then repeatedly bid every few seconds until you won.

So, you either used a sniping program - against eBay's rules, mind - or you decided at the literal last minute "Hey, I want this" and didn't bother to look for yourself to see whether it was what you wanted. You assumed.

It only ended on the 12th, and you already have it, so that's pretty amazing shipping speed on the part of the seller. It usually takes a lot longer for items of that size to reach me when I buy things from eBay.

Frankly, it looks to me like you didn't do your homework, you failed to ask questions, you didn't get what you assumed you'd get because of your own issues, and you're blaming the seller for your mistakes. The seller then offered a power cord, which should have been enough to end this. Instead, you decided that you had to share your own negligence with the world by posting on this forum (and who knows how many other places?). All you did was spotlight your own mistakes.

Next time, ask questions. If you don't get the response you think you should get, don't bid. It's really that simple. And since you have a feedback of 516, really, this shouldn't be new to you.

Neither should the "no sniping programs allowed" rule. Really, if the seller wanted to, he could probably report you to eBay and get you banned for that alone.
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Old 12-18-10, 01:12 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Originally Posted by OmahaStar View Post
Another thing ... How much time did you spend studying this auction? It appears that you placed your first bid less than two minutes before it ended. Ended at 16:32:01, your first bid was at 16:30:35, so about a minute and a half before it ended, then repeatedly bid every few seconds until you won.

So, you either used a sniping program - against eBay's rules, mind - or you decided at the literal last minute "Hey, I want this" and didn't bother to look for yourself to see whether it was what you wanted. You assumed.

It only ended on the 12th, and you already have it, so that's pretty amazing shipping speed on the part of the seller. It usually takes a lot longer for items of that size to reach me when I buy things from eBay.

Frankly, it looks to me like you didn't do your homework, you failed to ask questions, you didn't get what you assumed you'd get because of your own issues, and you're blaming the seller for your mistakes. The seller then offered a power cord, which should have been enough to end this. Instead, you decided that you had to share your own negligence with the world by posting on this forum (and who knows how many other places?). All you did was spotlight your own mistakes.

Next time, ask questions. If you don't get the response you think you should get, don't bid. It's really that simple. And since you have a feedback of 516, really, this shouldn't be new to you.

Neither should the "no sniping programs allowed" rule. Really, if the seller wanted to, he could probably report you to eBay and get you banned for that alone.
A couple of things. First off, a "sniping" program?? LOL. I dont even know what that is. Secondly, ebay has a feature that lets you "watch" the item and sends you emails giving you updates on it so both your assumptions about deciding to buy it at the last minute and using a sniper program are incorrect. The reason I placed the bid 2 minutes before the auction ended is so that I did not drive the price up. If I bid hours or days before the item ends, then someone else bids, then i bid again, and so on, the price just keeps getting higher. You wait to bid right before the auction closes to keep the price low. Common sense. You ask why I didnt ask a question. I've sold hundreds and bought hundreds of items on ebay before and would NEVER think to NOT state if a remote or power cord werent included in an item I was selling. Same goes for items I've bought, the few times I've purchased electronics on ebay of course a power cord would be included as well as the remote.
Anyway thanks for your input. But this is NOT my mistake lol. IMO , this is like selling a puzzle and not including all the pieces.
Let me ask you a question. If you bought a refurbished piece of eletronic equipment at a store and did not receive a remote or power cord, would it be OK just because you didnt ask if it came with those things first?

Last edited by JZ1276; 12-18-10 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 12-18-10, 01:36 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Originally Posted by DeepSleep View Post
If the above link is the correct auction in question, then here are my comments. For the record, I have never bought or sold anything on ebay and I do not own any stock in the company either. I am also NOT familiar with this particular item.

Where do I begin? There is so much to say...

I am not taking sides with either the buyer or seller. This is just a pair of fresh eyes looking at the situation.

The seller titles the auction as "TECHNICS SU-G91 Integrated Stereo Amplifier Receiver"

The item is mislabled. The picture clearly shows the item and the name in the upper left hand corner of the unit says: Technics Stereo Integrated Amplifier SU-G91. "

This item is an NOT a receiver. You can also tell this by looking at the picture. Also, you can Google it and all the descriptions about the SU-G91 says it is an amplifier only, not a receiver.

The item is used. The 2 pictures show only the amplifier itself. No accessories are shown or mentioned in the description. There is no reasonable basis that an owners manual, remote or power cord would be included in the price.

I noticed that at the bottom of the auction there is a place/procedure where a potential bidder could ask a question. Why didn't the buyer ask the seller if the remote, owners manual and power cord is part of the sale???? just to be sure.

A quick Google search (wow! Google is real handy) would have shown that a remote for the SU-G91 can be purchased for $85, the owners manual is $13 and the power cord is $10.

http://www.technics.newremotecontrol...um=RAK-SA902MH


Not sure how ebay would handle this sort of situation. The seller clearly mislabled the title of the auction, but a quick look at the item picture shows that the item is an amplifier and NOT a receiver. If there was any doubt, the buyer should have asked the seller a question in the space provided.

The provenance of the item is not mentioned. A quick look at the sellers other items indicate that the seller probably buys stuff for resale on ebay. He probably gets stuff from garage sales, lawn sales, dumpster diving, thrift shops etc. The buyer should have asked if the owners manual, power cord and remote are included. After all, the item is used and there is no mention of those items in the description or in the picture.

The buyer is now asking for a $30 credit. If the buyer wants to buy the accessories he feels should have come with the amplifier, it will cost him $108 plus shipping. (See link above).

Conclusion: The seller clearly mislabled the auction, but a quick look at the picture provided showed the item to be an amplifier only. The buyer could have done 2 minutes of due diligence on Google on the item to confirm this info. The buyer assumed that the remote, owners manual and power cord are included? Those items were not listed as part of the auction in the description and not shown in the picture. Again, why didn't the buyer use the ask the seller feature at the bottom of the auction to be sure? After all, it is your hard earned money that you are spending? It would have taken only a minute or two to ask the question....

Wow, I see fault on both sides....
Well, you say if there was any doubt that I shouldve asked the seller about the remote and power cord. Like I stated in my above post, there wasnt ANY doubt thats why I didnt ask! Youre also telling me to Google this item. Why? It states it is a receiver. Do you think the thought would cross my that "Hey, maybe this ISNT a receiver, I should probably Google it"?. No, of course not. You find it hard to believe that I didnt ask the seller if the remote and power cord were included (I never thought the manual would be though). My reason is simple. These things BELONG with the "receiver" and for them to NOT be included should be stated IMO.

Last edited by JZ1276; 12-18-10 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 12-18-10, 01:41 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Anyway, the seller did offer to give me a partial refund like I said of $30 which is just enough to purchase a Technics matching tuner. However, as a long time seller and buyer from ebay, mislabeling the item as a receiver when it is not is reason enough to return it alone. NOT stating that the remote and power cord isnt included in the description is obviously debatable, but IMO is also reason enough to return it.
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Old 12-18-10, 02:04 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

You're just digging yourself into an even deeper hole. What are you trying to gain? You've already proven what kind of ... how do I want to put this? ... less than brilliant ebayer you are. You don't care about facts, you don't bother to research, you just whine and complain. Sounds to me like you're trying to scam an honest seller. If it was me, and I was that seller, I think I'd keep a copy of this thread and include it in my report to eBay.

You're clearly in the wrong, and you're scamming the seller out of 30 bucks plus a power cord, and you're bragging about it. Your parents should be appalled.
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Old 12-18-10, 02:16 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Originally Posted by OmahaStar View Post
You're just digging yourself into an even deeper hole. What are you trying to gain? You've already proven what kind of ... how do I want to put this? ... less than brilliant ebayer you are. You don't care about facts, you don't bother to research, you just whine and complain. Sounds to me like you're trying to scam an honest seller. If it was me, and I was that seller, I think I'd keep a copy of this thread and include it in my report to eBay.

You're clearly in the wrong, and you're scamming the seller out of 30 bucks plus a power cord, and you're bragging about it. Your parents should be appalled.
How can you call this guy an honest seller??? I'm "whining and complaining" because I AM AN HONEST seller and expect the same honesty from sellers when i buy an item that I use when I sell an item! Whats honest about mislabeling an item ??!! Whats honest about not saying "the remote and power cord arent included"? If he was an honest seller, he would have mentioned those things. Its obvious that he purposely did NOT mention those things because he would have gotten a lower price on the item than if he did. I'm bragging??? Is there something wrong with you? At what point in this thread did I brag about anything? My parents should be appalled? I'm 34 yrs old buddy. Either you are the seller or you have some serious issues.
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Old 12-18-10, 02:42 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Originally Posted by JZ1276 View Post
NOT stating that the remote and power cord isnt included in the description is obviously debatable, but IMO is also reason enough to return it.
Sure, if you're wanting to cut off your nose to spite your face. You got a really nice receiver at a fair price. Too bad you can't be happy with it.

Originally Posted by JZ1276 View Post
How can you call this guy an honest seller??? I'm "whining and complaining" because I AM AN HONEST seller and expect the same honesty from sellers when i buy an item that I use when I sell an item!
He honestly didn't say that the manual, remote or power cord were included. It's eBay. You get what's advertised.
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Old 12-18-10, 04:02 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Originally Posted by Mr. Salty View Post
Sure, if you're wanting to cut off your nose to spite your face. You got a really nice receiver at a fair price. Too bad you can't be happy with it.


He honestly didn't say that the manual, remote or power cord were included. It's eBay. You get what's advertised.
I'm happy enough with it which is why I didnt return it. I just came here for everyones opinion.
To go as far as to call it a really nice receiver is a bit steep. Everyone has already said it is NOT a receiver and it's Technics...at least 15 years old
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Old 12-18-10, 04:12 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

I have to admit I'm honestly surprised that most of you are actually ragging on me over the situation. By what most of you are saying, it looks like this type of thing is tolerated on eBay so I am definitely changing my selling habits from now on.
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Old 12-18-10, 04:54 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

I meant to respond last night when I first saw this. Anyway, the chief point I meant to make is that sellers should list clearly what is and is not included in an auction and that buyers should always ask any relevant questions before placing a bid.

As a rule of thumb, if a seller has a manual for old electronics, he or she will emphasize that because it sends the message that the item has been in the hands of someone attentive. Note that the suggestion of being well cared for isn't a guarantee.

And the reason that several posters have become animated over this is that it's yet another microcosm of the things that have ruined eBay for us as buyers and as sellers. I'll give you this, though: at least you seem to be honest (if misguided) about your side of things.
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Old 12-18-10, 06:02 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Originally Posted by JZ1276 View Post
To go as far as to call it a really nice receiver is a bit steep. Everyone has already said it is NOT a receiver and it's Technics...at least 15 years old
OK, I'll smooth out the steepness for you: You got a pretty nice although not state-of-the-art integrated amplifier at a fair price without, apparently, doing one iota of research on the item before bidding on it.
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Old 12-18-10, 07:49 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

Originally Posted by Mr. Salty View Post
OK, I'll smooth out the steepness for you: You got a pretty nice although not state-of-the-art integrated amplifier at a fair price without, apparently, doing one iota of research on the item before bidding on it.
Didnt need to research anything. All that was important to me were the words "Technics" and "receiver". I was looking for an older receiver to start up a second system outside and I've owned Technics gear in the past and trust the name brand so I went for it. If you're talking about research as in asking the seller if the original accessories were included then I can state my opinion again... I would trust that the seller would say what would NOT be included in the description that SHOULD be included (such as obvious things like a power cord) as that's what I've always done when selling and that's how it's always been when buying in the past. In the future, if I do buy a similar item, I will ask.
It's almost like I can sell a used car with no keys, take a picture of the car, and then tell the buyer "you didnt ask if it came with the keys" after he bought it so that makes it OK.
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Old 12-18-10, 08:01 AM
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Re: Before i disput a buy on eBay...

First, the guy doesn't look like he sells a lot. But he does look like a surplus/bankruptcy sales guy. Unless he's selling his personal unit, you can't expect him to be 100% accurate.

Second, this is why I don't really sell consumer electronics. It's a HUGE pain, for this exact reason.

Lastly, this is why I clearly state "includes all/only item(s) pictured" in all 6600 of my listings. Problem solved.

And sniping is not against eBay's rules. Their German site banned them. But it's not against eBay rules.
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