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Recent Amazon Price Error: You'll be charged unless you return!!

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Recent Amazon Price Error: You'll be charged unless you return!!

Old 12-29-06, 12:53 AM
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cut up the card, call the CC company, and tell them it was lost and you want a new one.

They won't be charging anything on your card then.
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Old 12-29-06, 12:54 AM
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I wonder how different our reactions to the "email" would have been if Amazon had decided to take a lighter and more forthcoming approach instead of the more heavy-handed one that they did:

Dear Amazon Customer:

We admit it. We goofed! Due to a programming error, your recent order for our B1G1 offer incorrectly deducted the lower-priced item twice. Although we eventually corrected the error, several orders (including yours) were placed and shipped. We realize that we cannot legally require you to pay the correct amount or return your items. However, since this error resulted in a considerable loss to Amazon, we would ask that you consider returning these items to us (at our expense). As a token of our appreciation, we will send you a Gift Certificate in the amount of $10 for each order that is returned. Thank you for being a loyal Amazon customer.


I realize that this may not change many peoples minds about returning orders, but it would certainly make me feel better about Amazon as a company. Just my two cents ...
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Old 12-29-06, 01:02 AM
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In general contract law, there is a concept known as "mistake of fact." It occurs when one party to a contract knows that a mistake has been made by the other party and that the other party would not follow through with the contract if they knew the true facts. If there is such a mistake of fact, there is no contract, plain and simple, since there was no mutual agreement in the first place.

IMHO Amazon is on pretty solid legal ground if they claim that no valid contracts for these B0G0 "deals" ever existed. Unless one of you here wants to claim you didn't know there was a significant pricing mistake....................... Didn't think so.

The real problem for Amazon, however, is one of enforcement; that is, getting their goods or their money back. I doubt that they can successfully recharge your credit cards (they might be able to ding your debit cards, I am not sure). In order to get their money or goods back, they would most likely need to file a lawsuit (or pursue arbitration if their terms of use so stipulate). This lawsuit would allege mistake of fact as a defense to any contract being formed. They would win 80% of these cases as most judges/juries would conclude that buying 2 $35+ DVD sets for a penny is something that no reasonable consumer could expect as a legitimate deal. However, the expense and negative publicity that such lawsuits would generate would lead Amazon to go after only the most egregious cases, those who made dozens of purchases.

In summary, just because they can't charge your credit card after the fact doesn't make it all right. You still knowingly took advantage of a glitch and profited thereby. In some jurisdictions, that is theft. As for the argument that this would mean that any retailer could retroactively change their prices and demand that you pay the difference after shipment, it all depends on the actual facts of the situation. Here, we are talking about an obvious glitch. Besides, there are laws against bait and switch sales tactics and any retailer who engaged in such tactics on a consistent basis would not be in business long.

Last edited by ResIpsa; 12-29-06 at 01:07 AM.
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Old 12-29-06, 01:02 AM
  #154  
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"the deal that will live infamy" is something that we will talk about for years on this board.
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Old 12-29-06, 01:08 AM
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Gift Cards FTW!!
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Old 12-29-06, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ResIpsa
In general contract law, there is a concept known as "mistake of fact." It occurs when one party to a contract knows that a mistake has been made by the other party and that the other party would not follow through with the contract if they knew the true facts. If there is such a mistake of fact, there is no contract, plain and simple, since there was no mutual agreement in the first place.
They could have cancled the orders before they shipped. They knew about the error, and sent everything anyways. Doesn't that mean anything? It's not fair for them to expect everything back unopened. Hell, I bought the dvds to watch them, not stare at the covers.

Last edited by xNightfallx; 12-29-06 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 12-29-06, 01:14 AM
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Does their accepting the payment, shipping the items, and then sending an email stating:

We thought you'd like to know that we shipped your items, and that this
completes your order.
not acknowledge the creation and completion of a contract?
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Old 12-29-06, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by xNightfallx
They could have cancled the orders before they shipped. They knew about the error, and sent everything anyways.
By virtue of the fact that the glitch was fixed sometime around noon pacific time of the first day of the promotion, one could argue that Amazon was then aware of the true facts. The contract is not completed until the merchant bills and ships the merchandise - at least that's the defense that online merchants use for cancelling orders, pricing error or not. Any charges made shipments sent after the glitch was corrected, particularly the ones that shipped days afterwards, were made with knowledge of the original error.
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Old 12-29-06, 01:25 AM
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I find rather amusing the sequence of events in my case.

1. I place five orders
2. One ships
3. One disappears from my order history
4. I get a cancellation e-mail for the missing order, saying that there was a price mistake on their part
5. The next day, three shipment confirmation emails arrive for the other orders

So, they knew about the mistakes, yet still sent out some of the orders at the mistaken prices.

Four of the orders were for a friend and my brother. I bet they'll pay the B1G1F price for them anyway.

All four uncancelled orders have arrived BTW. One order still has all its discs in its shrinkwrap, so I guess I'll return it if my brother doesn't want to pay $26.49 instead of $1.46 ;-0

Last edited by Chris-K; 12-29-06 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 12-29-06, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ResIpsa
In general contract law, there is a concept known as "mistake of fact." ....
Darn laws, learn something new every day even though you've been bound by it already. A question on this though, I've seen it taken to mean basically fraud, either deliberate or accidental, on the item in question. For example, lets say I'm looking to purchase a classic car. New to the game, I'm not able to tell the difference between an original 427 AC Cobra and an exceptionally well done fabricated kit. Now 1) if the person who sells it to me knows I don't have this ability and deliberately convinces me into believing it's an orignal or 2) the person also has limited knowledge and believes it to be original sells it to me as such but I later find out that it is not an original, I should legally be able to get my purchase price back both cases per this concept, correct.

Now in this case, what was the mistaken fact? Both Amazon and the customers knew what the items for sale were and they were in fact those dvd's as advertised. Can they claim their was a "mistake of fact" on the price? How can Amazon not have known the "true facts" of the price if they were the party that set it and asked for the appropriate payment? Couldn't anyone then sell an item and, at some reasonable later point, come back and say, "Well if I knew I could have sold that item for $X and I only accepted $Y I clearly was mistaken on it's true value, so I want the difference or you can return it for a refund?"
I mean I seewhat you're saying about the law, but it seems to me if that were the case, there'd be a boatload of upheaval in the trading card and comic book market. But again, I'm sure there's some other concept that prevents this... I'm just curious about it all, of course.
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Old 12-29-06, 01:31 AM
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Just called again, and this CSR was very nice, and told me that after speaking to her team leader, they agreed that they can't charge my card more money, and I won't have to send anything back. I asked her to make note of that in my account, so it's known to Amazonthat as far as I know, I am done with the orders.
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Old 12-29-06, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by BrentLumkin
not acknowledge the creation and completion of a contract?
ResIpsa's point is that because one party was 'aware' of the error and the other party wasn't, no valid contract could be made - regardless of what was written down. It's like acting in "bad faith" - the customer knew that Amazon would not make the contract if they new what the customer knew, so any contract under those circumstances is not valid.

As I just posted, I think a reasonable argument can be made that 'Amazon' as an entity demonstrated knowledge of the error - by correcting it at the source - and still proceded to complete the contracts. A question is - is the customer responsible for Amazon's internal communications or lack thereof? Is it the customer's onus to not only make sure Amazon's right hand knows what's up, but that their left hand does too? Especially if the customer has no special knowledge of those internal communications?
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Old 12-29-06, 01:43 AM
  #163  
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This deal wasn't much different from the Suncoast.com bonanza of a few years ago when they had the Buy 2 DVDs from a select list of (crappy) titles and get them for $16 each. Of course a glitch on their website allowed you to choose one DVD from their list and then pick any DVDs you wanted off their entire site and get them for $16 each. People were getting $100 box sets for $16. Suncoast ended up cancelling many orders but they also shipped out a lot of stuff. I don't remember them raising any stink about it. In fact they actually sent out coupons for the orders that got cancelled. They definitely handled the situation much better, even though they probably took a decent little financial hit because of it.
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Old 12-29-06, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by i86time
How can Amazon not have known the "true facts" of the price if they were the party that set it and asked for the appropriate payment?
Let's take the question a step further. I'm no contract lawyer, but I have been told repeatedly that there is a principle in contract law that is something like "he who writes the contract, lives with the contract" - which acknowledges that the big guys have a ton of money to spend to get all the details exactly as they want them, while the little guy is basically stuck with whatever the big guy offers - take it or leave it. Thus, if the big guy screws up the details and the little guy benefits from that screw-up, tough noogies for the big guy, he had the resources to set the terms to his benefit and failed to do so - the little guy just made the most of what he was given.

Last edited by Jah-Wren Ryel; 12-29-06 at 01:46 AM.
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Old 12-29-06, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ResIpsa
You still knowingly took advantage of a glitch and profited thereby. In some jurisdictions, that is theft.
Really? That's a pretty vague statement. I'd like to know what jurisdictions, for example, and under what conditions.
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Old 12-29-06, 02:16 AM
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Wow. finally read through the posts.... Thank goodness i didn't take advantage of the misprice! i did clicked the thread, but read the ethic post and the ???????? post. Well, i didn't know the full extend of the deal at the times, but roughly understood it as some "ethical" issues at play.

Anyway, if you jumped on the deal and got the e-mail, you gotta deal with it or sleep over it. I don't care who is right and wrong, but b/c of this "bargain" you brought yourself some tortuous stress. Of course, this thread is for collective info for those looking for comforts and directions, so here's a personal experience i like to share:

Few years back, i ordered some books from Singapore. I got charged the correct amount, but guess what? There's a loop hole in the exchange rate... I got cheated by the Singapore company! How? Well, it credited me back for the order. At first i was overjoyed by the discovery (i monitored the charges from times to times). However, after couple of days, i realized why it did that... Well, the exchange rate was in favor of the Singapore currency, so i got charged $10 bucks more, so i got a higher charge after the issued credit.... Hmmm, what did i do (what can i do)? Nothing! Those sneaky bastards...

So, translation to the Amazon situation... Well, i don't know Amazon can do this or not, but what if they credit you back with the original amount and charge you with the correct amount? Hmmm, the result is same as that stated in the e-mail, but the method is different and it seems that it's a probable method to me.
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Old 12-29-06, 03:16 AM
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Just called again, and this CSR was very nice, and told me that after speaking to her team leader, they agreed that they can't charge my card more money, and I won't have to send anything back. I asked her to make note of that in my account, so it's known to Amazonthat as far as I know, I am done with the orders.
so do you have to call them and talk to them?
or are they just not allowed to charge anyone
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Old 12-29-06, 05:19 AM
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Old 12-29-06, 05:33 AM
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I just contacted my CC company.
It happens to be an Amazon.com Chase Visa card.
The person I spoke with on the phone was extremely surprised as he had not heard of this yet. He could not believe what they're trying to do.
The CC CSR said Amazom has no legal standing to do this as these were COMPLETED TRANSACTIONS.
He said that pricing errors happen all the time in the corporate world , but that this was not my error - it was Amazon's.
He told me the charges would be disputed without any problem if Amazon tries to charge more.
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Old 12-29-06, 06:14 AM
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Anybody remember the whole Disney.com fiasco from a few years ago?

If not, here's the link: Disney Fiasco.

Anywho, does anyone know of any online reporters who would be looking for a controversial story about Amazon.com?
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Old 12-29-06, 06:19 AM
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i'm pretty sure everyone is going to be ok here. just print out your invoices and contact your CC company and let them know about the situation and contact amazon's CSR and tell them that you won't be authorizing them to make any charges onto your account and that the previous sales were all FINAL. this is just an attempt to get people who are scared to send back product so that they can recoup loss.
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Old 12-29-06, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Peep
Really? That's a pretty vague statement. I'd like to know what jurisdictions, for example, and under what conditions.
Two example jurisdictions for your curiousity: England and Canada.

See the Wikipedia entry for "Theft," specifically the "dishonesty" link under Theft in English Law.

See also this link: scc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/1992/1992rcs1-697/1992rcs1-697.html
for an example of the Canadian perspective.

I am sure there are more examples, but you will have to research it yourself.
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Old 12-29-06, 07:10 AM
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I don't see the argument here. It's plain and simple. You have a "final transaction" and that's it. There's no do-over. And let's just say there is a "do-over" - where do we set the lines. Who decides what a price mistake is and a computer glitch. You see the can of worms that would get open. Amazon screwed up. That's the price for automating their checkout. This is not unlike the Target fiasco not so long ago where people where buying $90.00 sets for $5.00 a piece. Everyone was gung ho about that "price glitch". I can imagine the fall out if they had tried to charge more to a customers card after they left the store. When it comes to retail you NEED the final transaction in order to have the final sales contract. It states what you are getting and what you are paying. If they've automated THEIR checkout then it is a cost of automation. I don't see how I should be responsible for their automation that does not work.

Regardless of that, if you ordered and were aware of the mistake then all I can say is what goes around comes around. But when it comes down to it. They have NO LEGAL standing to recharge your card and any court of law will see this. Of course they are'nt going to take anyone to court over a few dollars. I would say if the media outlets got a hold of this they'd have a great story.

There email is a scare tactic in VERY POOR taste. I've ordered from Amazon but I see I can't trust their pricing if my final sales receipt is worthless and they can pick and chose which ones that this appies to. To subjective for my taste. I only deal with companies that stand by their contracts.
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Old 12-29-06, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jah-Wren Ryel
Let's take the question a step further. I'm no contract lawyer, but I have been told repeatedly that there is a principle in contract law that is something like "he who writes the contract, lives with the contract" - which acknowledges that the big guys have a ton of money to spend to get all the details exactly as they want them, while the little guy is basically stuck with whatever the big guy offers - take it or leave it. Thus, if the big guy screws up the details and the little guy benefits from that screw-up, tough noogies for the big guy, he had the resources to set the terms to his benefit and failed to do so - the little guy just made the most of what he was given.
That is certainly true to an extent; language that is ambiguous in a contract is generally interpreted in a manner favorable to the non-drafter. This would not trump a "mistake in fact" defense, however, as a mistake in fact goes to the very heart of the contract, whether there was an actual "meeting of the minds."

Ah, but we are getting so far away from DVDs....
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Old 12-29-06, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by cmleidi
I see. If a customer knowingly exploits a glitch to purchase an item from you without paying anything, you would allow it to happen? You are told you via the email that you will be paid, but the customer knows differently, and you end up receiving nothing. You wouldn't contact Amazon about being compensated after you've shipped the item? If you would let it go, provide your seller name so we can be on the lookout if anything like this happens.
Different situation.
If I priced my item at 10.00 instead of the actual 100.00 it 'should' be, then yes, I'd kick myself for screwing up and hold up my end of the transaction.
If the email says I'll be paid, I expect to be paid. In this situation I paid the price Amazon charged me.

I also lost some money in a return recently. When I bought something the tax rate was 7.00, when I returned it the tax rate was 6.75, so their computer credited me .25% less than I originally paid.
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