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The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

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View Poll Results: Who will win the 2021 NBA Finals?
Suns sweep
0
0%
Suns in 5
33.33%
Suns in 6
33.33%
Suns in 7
11.11%
Bucks sweep
0
0%
Bucks in 5
0
0%
Bucks in 6
5.56%
Bucks in 7
5.56%
I don't care about either of these teams - Not watching
11.11%
Don't care who wins, but will watch
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The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

Old 07-22-21, 02:35 PM
  #151  
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Re: The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
You don't see a difference? Most of the players from the 90's played the bulk of their career with the team they were drafted. Yes guys like Malone to the Lakers and Barkley to the Rockets went ring hunting but they were well past their prime. Kwahi, AD, Lebron, Paul George, Kyrie, Durant (to name a few) all teamed up with someone else in the prime of their career as none of them are on the team they were drafted by.

I'm hoping this generation (Giannis, Embiid, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Doncic, etc) are different and play the bulk of their career with the team that drafted them and try to win a title there. Hopefully Giannis turned the tide with the Lebron-era Superteam and we see more homegrown teams where their superstars don't bolt.

In saying that, I welcome Ben Simmons requesting a trade out of Philly this summer.
I mean , of this original list:

-Ewing Knicks
-Magic/Lakers
-Payton/Kemp Sonics
-Barkley Suns
-Drexler Blazers
-Stockton/Malone Jazz
-Shaq/Penny Magic
-Daugherty Cavs
-Miller Pacers
-Mourning/Hardaway Heat
Kemp was traded from the Sonics, Barkley left Philadelphia for the Suns (as I'm sure you well know), Drexler (a little past his prime) left to join Olajuwon, Daugherty had a really short career (though Price stayed longer), Shaq left and then Penny was traded, and Mourning and Hardaway both left their original teams for the Heat. Again the key difference is players "colluding" and the fact that it was harder to trade a superstar back in the day for a variety of reasons.

It doesn't make a ton of sense for a player to stay "loyal" to the team that drafted them because the team (and the fanbase) will drop them like a rock once their skills diminish, they get hurt, or something better comes along. Exhibit A: Blake Griffin.
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Old 07-22-21, 02:44 PM
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Re: The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
You don't see a difference? Most of the players from the 90's played the bulk of their career with the team they were drafted. Yes guys like Malone to the Lakers and Barkley to the Rockets went ring hunting but they were well past their prime. Kwahi, AD, Lebron, Paul George, Kyrie, Durant (to name a few) all teamed up with someone else in the prime of their career as none of them are on the team they were drafted by.

I'm hoping this generation (Giannis, Embiid, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Doncic, etc) are different and play the bulk of their career with the team that drafted them and try to win a title there. Hopefully Giannis turned the tide with the Lebron-era Superteam and we see more homegrown teams where their superstars don't bolt.

In saying that, I welcome Ben Simmons requesting a trade out of Philly this summer.
Thats the point I was trying to make. Teams used to be assembled and grown through the draft and by picking up a solid journeyman or two. They put in the work and developed. They didnít jump ship with other superstars to go win a championship.

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Old 07-22-21, 02:49 PM
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Re: The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

Originally Posted by Toddarino View Post
Thats the point I was trying to make. Teams used to be assembled and grown through the draft and by picking up a solid journeyman or two. They put in the work and developed. They didn’t jump ship with other superstars to go win a championship.
Exactly.

-You thought of Ewing as a Knick, Miller as a Pacer, Stockton/Malone as Jazz, Hakeem as a Rocket, Robinson as a Spur, Jordan/Pippen as a Bull, Payton in Seattle.

What do you think of Durant? OKC, Golden State, or New Jersey?
Lebron? Cleveland, Miami, or LA?
Kwahi? SA, Toronto, or LA?
These are the 3 of the best players of the past 20 years and not one of them can be identified with one team when you think of them.
Old 07-22-21, 04:09 PM
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Re: The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

Originally Posted by Decker View Post



Giannis got Holiday but they sent Bledsoe - a risky and calculated move. This wasn't a guaranteed HoF move like getting AD was. Besides, Holiday played iffy for a chunk of the Finals.
You made my point... that list above is trash except for Ingram. The 30th pick in the first round is essentially cap space. AD pretty much out played that entire list of players (statistically). It'd be cool to see LA build a team thru the draft like they did back with Kobe.

Again, LeBron was great and I know you've got home team colored glasses on... but what Giannis did was more impressive, IMO.
Old 07-22-21, 04:14 PM
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Re: The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

They're different achievements, but they're both impressive as hell. Doubly for Giannis however since it looked like he was gonna be out for a year after that knee injury against Atlanta.

I have no problem with you or anyone saying Giannis' achievement was more impressive. But anyone who dismisses LeBron and the Lakers' 2020 Championship because it was in The Bubble, I will debate. It wasn't easier for the Lakers, if anything it made it harder on them.
Old 07-22-21, 04:46 PM
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Re: The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

Built a team through the draft like they did with Kobe... and some scrub free agent named Shaq?
Old 07-22-21, 05:05 PM
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Re: The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
Built a team through the draft like they did with Kobe... and some scrub free agent named Shaq?
The difference of Shaqís free agency is the Magic lowballed him and essentially paved the way for him signing with the Lakers. Itís been a long time so someone can refresh my memory, but Iím pretty sure they didnít want to sign him to the max deal at that time and he was offended and walked? Thatís much different than todayís game where players like AD want out because they want to play with another superstar.
Old 07-22-21, 05:17 PM
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Re: The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
The difference of Shaqís free agency is the Magic lowballed him and essentially paved the way for him signing with the Lakers. Itís been a long time so someone can refresh my memory, but Iím pretty sure they didnít want to sign him to the max deal at that time and he was offended and walked? Thatís much different than todayís game where players like AD want out because they want to play with another superstar.
Nope. Max contracts didn't start until after the 1999 work stoppage. Shaq signed with the Lakers in the Summer of 1996.
Old 07-22-21, 05:19 PM
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Re: The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
The difference of Shaq’s free agency is the Magic lowballed him and essentially paved the way for him signing with the Lakers. It’s been a long time so someone can refresh my memory, but I’m pretty sure they didn’t want to sign him to the max deal at that time and he was offended and walked? That’s much different than today’s game where players like AD want out because they want to play with another superstar.
The issue there was that at the time there was no max deal. Teams had signed Alonzo Mourning and Juwan Howard to 105 million dollar contracts, which at the time was something like 80% of the team cap which is crazy. Also, there was no "restricted free agent" rule so the Magic couldn't just match an offer to keep him. But it's true they basically nickel and dimed Shaq because they knew he wanted to go to a big market and they were thinking only of what others could offer him, not what his value was to the team. West even told Shaq that he couldn't make him the highest paid player in the league but that they'd get close and the contract would be voidable after three years (the term under which the team would have his Bird rights).
Old 07-22-21, 05:56 PM
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Re: The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Nope. Max contracts didn't start until after the 1999 work stoppage. Shaq signed with the Lakers in the Summer of 1996.
Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
The issue there was that at the time there was no max deal. Teams had signed Alonzo Mourning and Juwan Howard to 105 million dollar contracts, which at the time was something like 80% of the team cap which is crazy. Also, there was no "restricted free agent" rule so the Magic couldn't just match an offer to keep him. But it's true they basically nickel and dimed Shaq because they knew he wanted to go to a big market and they were thinking only of what others could offer him, not what his value was to the team. West even told Shaq that he couldn't make him the highest paid player in the league but that they'd get close and the contract would be voidable after three years (the term under which the team would have his Bird rights).
Here is a good article on how Orlando lost Shaq and kind of goes to my original post. Yes, there was no max contract til 1999 (Decker is famous for pounding on one statement by people in here instead taking the context of the whole post, but that's another debate as I sort of expect it from him). They first lowballed Shaq with a 4 year 54 million dollar offer where Mourning (as Fujishig said got 105 million dollar contract). Shaq was clearly the better player at that time than Mourning, and I would have been offended too if I were Shaq. Again, this is much different than AD and many others saying to Management, trade me or else.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/t...aquille-oneal/
Old 07-22-21, 06:05 PM
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Re: The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
Exactly.



What do you think of Durant? OKC, Golden State, or New Jersey?
Lebron? Cleveland, Miami, or LA?
Kwahi? SA, Toronto, or LA?
These are the 3 of the best players of the past 20 years and not one of them can be identified with one team when you think of them.
I don't think any all star player will ever willingly sigh a free agent contract with the Spurs in the next decade after they did Kawhi dirty and called him soft in public and started trying to turn the media against him when he was injured. It's hard to know if Kawhi is a guy who would have stayed with the team who drafted him if the team who drafted him didn't act like scumbags.
Old 07-22-21, 07:49 PM
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Re: The 2021 NBA Finals Thread -- Milwaukee Bucks vs Phoenix Suns

Originally Posted by AaronHernandez View Post
I don't think any all star player will ever willingly sigh a free agent contract with the Spurs in the next decade after they did Kawhi dirty and called him soft in public and started trying to turn the media against him when he was injured. It's hard to know if Kawhi is a guy who would have stayed with the team who drafted him if the team who drafted him didn't act like scumbags.
Lebron re-signed with the Cavs after Dan Gilbert wrote Ďthe letterí after his ESPN announcement to the Heat. That letter pretty much called Lebron gutless and seemed to burn bridges so he would never return. Yet he did. Not saying Leonard was ever going back to the Spurs but Pop has a good rep and 5 rings.

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