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Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

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Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Old 02-08-21, 01:59 AM
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Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying he's NOT the GOAT. Not at all.

I was a Brady doubter, a denier for over a decade. I've always said he's great, but not the GOAT.

Until he helped take the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to the Super Bowl after years of mediocrity (or worse), and then helped them win it.

But what is it that makes Brady the Greatest Of All Time??

He doesn't have the strongest arm in NFL history. He isn't the most accurate QB in history. I've never seen him make any throws that made me say, "WOW! That was AMAZING!!!" I've never seen him do anything all that special on any one given play. Sure, he's hit some long balls, but Stan Humphries was better at the long ball back in the 90's, and no one will ever mistake him for the GOAT. Hell, Brady isn't even much more mobile than Philip Rivers!

So what is it that makes him so great?

I mean, clearly, he IS great, and has been for about 20 years. So if he's not better than anyone at any of those things, why is he so good? How does he get the results that he does?

Is it just a combination of being above average or well above average in accuracy, arm strength, field vision, and decision making? Is it because he's not bad at anything other than running the ball?

What do you think?
Old 02-08-21, 02:35 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

No he got two automatic home playoff games every year in the AFC leas and he plays in a league where the rules and the refs favor him to go all the way.

It also helps all the other teams in the AFC are stupid and don't know how to build a team to beat the Patriots.

If Montana played for them they would have won 12 titles

At least Jordan had some challengers and it was not easy to win it all every year.
Old 02-08-21, 05:08 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Five Super Bowl MVPs, seven Super Bowl wins pretty much says it all. I have never been a fan of Brady, but the numbers speak for themselves.
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Old 02-08-21, 07:53 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

As I always say, if it was so easy in this era - there would be other QBs with comparable success - but there isn't.
During Brady's career - what other QB had similar success? Big Ben and Peyton Manning were both 2-1 in the SB. 3 SB appearances... yet Brady appeared in 10.

Brady did it on 2 different teams... in 2 difference conferences.
He did it in an era with much faster defenses.

7 SB wins... 10 SB appearances... 5 SB MPVs. Unbelievable.

He was already the GOAT... and yesterday was just another level of solidify what we already know.
Anyone who says otherwise is either a homer, lying to themselves, or just doesn't understand football
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Old 02-08-21, 08:00 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Longevity makes him the greatest. I still would take Montana over any QB in a 2 minute offense, and I think Marino, Manning and Elway had more overall talent and arm strength. But Brady has been able to sustain his greatness and winning for 20+ years now, and that is simply amazing. And he even furthered his greatness by leaving Belichik and winning a SB with another team (discounting the narrative by many that Belichik was the genius and Brady was just a part of his system). Belichik didn't win shit in Cleveland from 1991-95, so it proves the point that every great coach needs that great QB to win multiple SB's.
Old 02-08-21, 08:02 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

I don't understand how you can compare Brady with Montana. Brady plays in an era when it's a foul to hit a quarterback. Those 20th century guys got hit hard every few plays. It was a different position. Without the weekly injuries, modern players get longevity and large career stats.
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Old 02-08-21, 08:55 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
I don't understand how you can compare Brady with Montana. Brady plays in an era when it's a foul to hit a quarterback. Those 20th century guys got hit hard every few plays. It was a different position. Without the weekly injuries, modern players get longevity and large career stats.
I will agree with you that it's tough to compare eras in any sports. I think that Unitas and Bart Starr gets shafted because they won a few titles in the Pre-Superbowl era as most fans/media don't even recognize the NFL before Superbowl 1. And they also played in a time (Pre-1978) where a DB could literally mug a WR until the loosened the rules to get more scoring.

In saying that, I hope you don't say that Jordan is the GOAT in NBA Arguments? Because they literally invented the Flagrant Foul in 1990 for Jordan, as he won those titles in a much less physical game than guys in the 60's/70's/80's.

Last edited by mcnabb; 02-08-21 at 09:18 AM.
Old 02-08-21, 08:58 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
I don't understand how you can compare Brady with Montana. Brady plays in an era when it's a foul to hit a quarterback. Those 20th century guys got hit hard every few plays. It was a different position. Without the weekly injuries, modern players get longevity and large career stats.
Even with this, I don't see how anyone can argue against Brady. QBs get hurt all the time in this league, and nobody playing in this era has come anywhere close to Brady, even with historic numbers and first ballot HOF QBs like Rodgers, Brees, etc. I'd also argue that it's harder in this era to go to the Super Bowl that many times, let alone win it that many times. "Super teams" come and go and Brady has not.

I don't think he's the best athlete, has the best arm, has the best legs, etc. He's not the physical prototype of a QB. But GOAT in football? If he's not at least in the top of the conversation you're very biased.
Old 02-08-21, 10:14 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Its just all about winning with Brady. Nothing else really matters (reasonably speaking). That is what makes him the greatest. Something that Peyton Manning never learned because he just assumed he could get by on his physical ability.
Old 02-08-21, 10:22 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Originally Posted by Deadman31 View Post
Its just all about winning with Brady. Nothing else really matters (reasonably speaking). That is what makes him the greatest. Something that Peyton Manning never learned because he just assumed he could get by on his physical ability.
Manning never had a defense as well run as the Patriots (well, maybe with the Broncos, but never with the Colts when he was in his prime), and he never had a coach as good as Belichick.

Put Manning on that Patriots team and they would have won just as many Super Bowls, that I do believe.

But Peyton broke down, physically, towards the end of his career in a way that Brady hasn't. Too many nagging injuries on top of his major neck injury that ended up killing his career in that last year in Denver.

Brady just seemed to find a way to win, even if he wasn't the most physically talented QB on the field.
Old 02-08-21, 10:44 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

I do think doing it without Belichick in his first year away on a team that failed to even make the playoffs the year before, helps solidify this beyond the shadow of a doubt. You can argue that the team was talented, sure, but they were mediocre until like halfway through the season and even though they had flashes, they weren't considered a dominant defense. They picked up three guys off the scrapheap. And then he went through Brees, Rodgers and Mahomes.
Old 02-08-21, 10:52 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
.

Put Manning on that Patriots team and they would have won just as many Super Bowls, that I do believe.

.
That's where I will respectfully disagree. Yes, The Patriots had better teams (defenses) than the Colts, but Manning came up small in alot of playoffs. Peyton Manning layed alot of eggs in the playoffs where he clearly had the best team in the AFC, as I believe he was close to a .500 QB in the Playoffs (Someone can correct me if I'm wrong). That's why I always go with Joe Montana for a 'big game' QB, as I would take him over anyone. Montana never threw an INT in 4 Superbowls, and was a master at the 2 minute drill at the end of the game (as you just knew he would drive his team down at put a daggar in the other team). But as I said, Brady's longevity and winning is just unbelievable as it's Gordie Howe-like (Gordie Howe played in the NHL at 52 years old in 1979-80).

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I do think doing it without Belichick in his first year away on a team that failed to even make the playoffs the year before, helps solidify this beyond the shadow of a doubt. You can argue that the team was talented, sure, but they were mediocre until like halfway through the season and even though they had flashes, they weren't considered a dominant defense. They picked up three guys off the scrapheap. And then he went through Brees, Rodgers and Mahomes.
When the divorce happened last year, one of their legacies would get hurt. If they retired together, they would have been the greatest Coach/QB tandems ever, and people would have said that they could only win together. Now that Brady wins a SB with Tampa, it knocks Belichick down a peg. He's still one of the great coaches, but as I said earlier, most great coaches that win multiple SB's usually win it with a Hall of Fame QB (except Joe Gibbs as he won it with Thiesman, Williams and Rypien).
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Old 02-08-21, 11:01 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

I don't personally think Belichick's legacy is hurt. Yes he had Brady all those years and I don't think he would have won all those titles without him, and I do think he would have been elevated had he gotten his (apparent) wish and kept Jimmy G and somehow won with him. But given what he had to work with I don't knock him at all for missing the playoffs: missing Brady was a huge part of that, sure, but the holdouts alone were crippling.

If Bill had held onto even some of the bigger players over the years instead of ruthlessly discarding and replacing them, I don't think the Pats would've had near the longevity they had, Brady or no. And that's before even getting into the coaching. He destroyed McVay out there, perhaps for good.
Old 02-08-21, 11:06 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Originally Posted by Coral View Post
As I always say, if it was so easy in this era - there would be other QBs with comparable success - but there isn't.
During Brady's career - what other QB had similar success? Big Ben and Peyton Manning were both 2-1 in the SB. 3 SB appearances... yet Brady appeared in 10.

Brady did it on 2 different teams... in 2 difference conferences.
He did it in an era with much faster defenses.

7 SB wins... 10 SB appearances... 5 SB MPVs. Unbelievable.

He was already the GOAT... and yesterday was just another level of solidify what we already know.
Anyone who says otherwise is either a homer, lying to themselves, or just doesn't understand football
Exactly. Just compare him to his contemporaries and it's not even close.

He was a top-5 QB basically every season from his 2nd SB season on....outside the year he was hurt and last season.

He won his first 3 SBs w/o loads of offensive talent around him. I guess his greatest failing is that he did not win when he had Moss. Then to win 4 more after turning 35 - all the more amazing.
Old 02-08-21, 11:17 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

None of which points to what it is that makes him the GOAT.

When a QB isn't the best passer (not the strongest or even most accurate), and doesn't have elite physical skills, what makes him the GOAT?

It has to be that mental component, no? QB is the one position on the field where being mediocre physically doesn't mean you can't be effective. (Certainly, Brady isn't mediocre, physically, but I'm making a point.)

I'd say Brady is better than average over his career when it came to arm strength and accuracy, but he was elite in neither category. And he wasn't mobile. It's the intangibles. It has to be.

And I'd say those intangibles include his ability to stay physically fit into his 40's. He's got a level of dedication to remaining in game shape, even in the offseason, that few QB's have ever matched.
Old 02-08-21, 11:25 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
None of which points to what it is that makes him the GOAT.

When a QB isn't the best passer (not the strongest or even most accurate), and doesn't have elite physical skills, what makes him the GOAT?

It has to be that mental component, no? QB is the one position on the field where being mediocre physically doesn't mean you can't be effective. (Certainly, Brady isn't mediocre, physically, but I'm making a point.)

I'd say Brady is better than average over his career when it came to arm strength and accuracy, but he was elite in neither category. And he wasn't mobile. It's the intangibles. It has to be.

And I'd say those intangibles include his ability to stay physically fit into his 40's. He's got a level of dedication to remaining in game shape, even in the offseason, that few QB's have ever matched.
Part of it is luck (not just the luck of having Belichick, the luck of the guy in front of him getting injured, but also the luck of not getting injured himself and being able to come back that one year he was injured bad). I won't discount his training regimen but luck is a gigantic part of a lot of things.

I'd also include that maybe a small part of it is being married to someone who makes more money than him. Not many QBs take less than the maximum amount they can, and even for great ones that often means the team is hurt in other places. That combined with Bill's penny pinching probably contributed more than we usually think about.

So I still say the wins encompass everything. That includes his training, his longevity, his leadership, his intangibles, his luck, everything. Without those wins, he's not the GOAT, period. With them, he's basically untouchable.
Old 02-08-21, 11:30 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
Part of it is luck (not just the luck of having Belichick, the luck of the guy in front of him getting injured, but also the luck of not getting injured himself and being able to come back that one year he was injured bad). I won't discount his training regimen but luck is a gigantic part of a lot of things.

I'd also include that maybe a small part of it is being married to someone who makes more money than him. Not many QBs take less than the maximum amount they can, and even for great ones that often means the team is hurt in other places. That combined with Bill's penny pinching probably contributed more than we usually think about.

So I still say the wins encompass everything. That includes his training, his longevity, his leadership, his intangibles, his luck, everything. Without those wins, he's not the GOAT, period. With them, he's basically untouchable.
But that just makes him the most successful, not the GREATEST.

GOAT means BETTER than all the rest.
Old 02-08-21, 11:34 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
But that just makes him the most successful, not the GREATEST.

GOAT means BETTER than all the rest.
If you beat everyone else (at a position that plays into wins/losses probably the most in a team sport) doesn't that make you better than all the rest?
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Old 02-08-21, 11:53 AM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

If we're just talking talent, though, Brady has nothing on Henning:


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Old 02-08-21, 12:02 PM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

^ That's hilarious. If you're looking at the ball high in the air in front of you, then it's already an incomplete pass.
Old 02-08-21, 12:06 PM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

As the great Herm Edwards once said, "you play to win the game." Including the playoffs, Brady is 264-80 as a starter.
Old 02-08-21, 12:24 PM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Originally Posted by shizawn View Post
As the great Herm Edwards once said, "you play to win the game." Including the playoffs, Brady is 264-80 as a starter.
it would be one thing if Brady's stats were just average or slightly above average, but his stats in passing yards, touchdowns and quarterback rating are near the top. Even passing yards per game averaged over an entire career puts him in the top ten all time above Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Rivers, but below Manning and Brees.
Old 02-08-21, 04:19 PM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

I think these "of all time" discussions are pointless, because the game changes so much. You never know how a great player from a previous era would fare in today's league, and vice versa. I like to say that either the '08 Lions or '16 Browns (the two 0-16 teams) would wipe the floor with the '72 Dolphins, simply because they were bigger. I mean, have you seen what linemen from the 70s looked like? I saw a photo of one of the most dominant defensive lines ever, and at first glance I thought it was the wide receiver corps. So as someone mentioned, guys like Montana got hit more than Brady due to the rules, but how many times did Montana play against 300lbers?

So you just never know. But I highly, and I mean HIGHLY doubt that any one QB will ever match Brady in SB wins, that may be one of those "unbreakable" records. And you can't take that away from him, no matter how the rules and players have changed.
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Old 02-08-21, 04:37 PM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

I also heard the guys offseason diet and conditioning regime is out of this world so he really puts a ton of effort into it but makes it look rather effortless when its gametime (battles already won in the preparation as the saying goes).
Old 02-08-21, 05:06 PM
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Re: Is Brady The GOAT? If So, What Makes Him The GOAT?

Brady was already the GOAT and I personally don't believe last night changed anything win or lose. That Bucs team is ridiculously loaded. Now if all that talent performed like poop before Brady, maybe his best asset is leadership.

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