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-   -   The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread. (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/sports-talk/652112-2021-pro-wrestling-thread.html)

Sonny Corinthos 12-31-20 11:39 PM

The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
Man, what a wild ride we had not only in the world of pro wrestling, but the world in general. I never thought I would ever live to see a wrestling event held without fans. As we say goodbye to 2020 and hello to a fresh, new start in 2021, let's not forget the ones who did not live to see the new year ring in. Here's a video of WWE Superstars remembering the late, great Jon Huber.


Hazel Motes 01-01-21 01:47 AM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
Had plans to attend the NJPW MSG show in 2020, we even had our plane tickets. Hopefully it happens in 2021.

As of right now I'm looking forward to the Finn Balor/Kyle O Reilly rematch and binge watching the ROH shows that I wasn't aware were back.

DaveWadding 01-04-21 02:24 AM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
Wrestle Kingdom 15 Night 1 is happening right now! Always look forward to NJPWs biggest event.

Red Hood 01-04-21 04:02 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 

No shit, Hulkster. Say racist shit, and most guys will lose your respect.

Mike86 01-04-21 09:44 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
To be fair though thereís no one on the roster even close to comparable to Hogan in terms of star power. Obviously I donít condone the racist comments heís made in the past, but heís still a draw and will probably help boost the ratings for a night. The legends really accentuate how weak the roster is.

Red Hood 01-05-21 10:53 AM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 

Originally Posted by Mike86 (Post 13868207)
To be fair though thereís no one on the roster even close to comparable to Hogan in terms of star power. Obviously I donít condone the racist comments heís made in the past, but heís still a draw and will probably help boost the ratings for a night. The legends really accentuate how weak the roster is.


That's true but is not the roster's fault. Vince didn't give Hogan, Austin or the Rock these convoluted, overproduced, overworded scripts to go out there and spout without any rhyme or reason back when these guys were on top. Then, just look at last night at how Hogan was given this stupid overwritten promo to start RAW and you could see that even a guy like Hogan wouldn't be able to get over thanks to that bullshit. The way things are done now basically handcuffs talent from getting over. And now without a live crowd is even worse because there's no pushback for this bullshit.

Red Hood 01-05-21 10:55 AM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
By the way, I find it ridiculous that Goldberg is being pushed better than the entire roster in 2021, getting a title shot out of nowhere. Man, if Vince would have pushed Goldberg like this back in 2003-04, things would have been very different.

fujishig 01-05-21 11:19 AM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 

Originally Posted by Red Hood (Post 13868362)
That's true but is not the roster's fault. Vince didn't give Hogan, Austin or the Rock these convoluted, overproduced, overworded scripts to go out there and spout without any rhyme or reason back when these guys were on top. Then, just look at last night at how Hogan was given this stupid overwritten promo to start RAW and you could see that even a guy like Hogan wouldn't be able to get over thanks to that bullshit. The way things are done now basically handcuffs talent from getting over. And now without a live crowd is even worse because there's no pushback for this bullshit.

Even if he gave them free reign, I don't think there's any way they can recreate the attitude era for a multitude of reasons. I just don't think the audience is there to really create another star at that level, and even if the pure numbers are there, so many fans seem so cynical that I'm not sure anyone could actually get "over" at least not to that level. Guys like Punk and Bryan show that railing against Vince and freeing things up can pay off, but I also think that at least part of their success was going against the establishment anyway. Once the establishment supports/pushes you? Forget it.

Sonny Corinthos 01-05-21 11:32 AM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
Why in the world does Vince trot out Goldberg to take up a spot in the hunt for the WWE Championship? Goldberg should stay out of the picture and retire for good.

BrewCrew 01-05-21 12:51 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 

Originally Posted by Sonny Corinthos (Post 13868386)
Why in the world does Vince trot out Goldberg to take up a spot in the hunt for the WWE Championship? Goldberg should stay out of the picture and retire for good.

I think the obvious reason is rating suck and trying to bring in casual fans. Kind of like this Legends night stuff. However, it doesn't do anything long term even if somebody beats Goldberg.

Mike86 01-05-21 12:55 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 

Originally Posted by fujishig (Post 13868377)
Even if he gave them free reign, I don't think there's any way they can recreate the attitude era for a multitude of reasons. I just don't think the audience is there to really create another star at that level, and even if the pure numbers are there, so many fans seem so cynical that I'm not sure anyone could actually get "over" at least not to that level. Guys like Punk and Bryan show that railing against Vince and freeing things up can pay off, but I also think that at least part of their success was going against the establishment anyway. Once the establishment supports/pushes you? Forget it.

I also just donít think there are many guys at the level of Hogan, Rock, Austin, HBK, Triple, H, Cena, etc. Punk and Bryan were the last two guys to really breakout as stars.

Really who is the big star of this generation who will be remembered? I canít think of one. There are good workers, but none of them truly stand out as big stars.

Red Hood 01-05-21 01:59 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 

Originally Posted by fujishig (Post 13868377)
Even if he gave them free reign, I don't think there's any way they can recreate the attitude era for a multitude of reasons. I just don't think the audience is there to really create another star at that level, and even if the pure numbers are there, so many fans seem so cynical that I'm not sure anyone could actually get "over" at least not to that level. Guys like Punk and Bryan show that railing against Vince and freeing things up can pay off, but I also think that at least part of their success was going against the establishment anyway. Once the establishment supports/pushes you? Forget it.


Originally Posted by Mike86 (Post 13868424)
I also just donít think there are many guys at the level of Hogan, Rock, Austin, HBK, Triple, H, Cena, etc. Punk and Bryan were the last two guys to really breakout as stars.

Really who is the big star of this generation who will be remembered? I canít think of one. There are good workers, but none of them truly stand out as big stars.

I'm sure there is an audience, as wrestling still draw big enough to demand that TV channels carry them. Right now we have WWE, AEW, Impact, MLW, ROH and other smaller promotions on weekly TV. Saying that there isn't guys out there that can be stars is the same mentality that WCW had in the 90's with people like Mark Callaway, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Terra Ryzing, Sexton Hardcastle, and many others. Yes, there are people out there, but the only way to let them get over is by going back to basics. Let the wrestlers speak naturally. Let them tell stories in the ring instead of the matches becoming spotfests. Let the crowd dictate what they like and what they don't.

Bray Wyatt is over. The SHIELD was over. Keith Lee was over. Becky Lynch is over. There are many wrestlers out there right now that can be 1A+ level stars like Stone Cold and the Rock and Hogan. The problem is that when these wrestlers are booked 50/50 and put in stupid storylines with verbiage that no one says in real life, it makes it real hard for them to get over and connect with fans. Being against Vince isn't the only thing that made CM Punk and Daniel Bryan over. It was the fact that fans connected to them. They were people being screwed in real life out of success for no good reason.

This should have been the night the torch was passed to Bryan and Punk. Instead, we got a brief flash of brilliance and back to the same boring shit. Just look at the organic reaction from the crowd.



fujishig 01-05-21 02:06 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
I don't think the audience is anywhere near where we were in the Attitude era. From my understanding, the WWE ratings have been terrible even when they were basically the only "live sports" available. AEW is doing well but I don't think it's anywhere near WCW even in the waning days. I kind of doubt anyone will ever be as big as Hogan, Rock, or Austin (Cena probably comes closest).

I will say it's pretty cool to hear the NFL and NBA have to promote wrestling, though.

Red Hood 01-05-21 02:37 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 

Originally Posted by fujishig (Post 13868478)
I don't think the audience is anywhere near where we were in the Attitude era. From my understanding, the WWE ratings have been terrible even when they were basically the only "live sports" available. AEW is doing well but I don't think it's anywhere near WCW even in the waning days. I kind of doubt anyone will ever be as big as Hogan, Rock, or Austin (Cena probably comes closest).

I will say it's pretty cool to hear the NFL and NBA have to promote wrestling, though.

It's a weird thing because the day to day audience is not near the Monday Night Wars but the overall audience for the product still there. Wrestling has positioned themselves in the same league as professional sports and people still consume the products (network, toys, merchandise, etc) in a much better way than during the 1993-95 years.

There still a huge audience. Wrestlemania sells out as fast as the Super Bowl. The solution is that Vince needs to pass the reigns to people who are in-touch with society. It's very hard for an old guy like him who doesn't watch TV to know what is cool and what isn't.

Obi-Wanma 01-05-21 03:00 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 

Originally Posted by Red Hood (Post 13868474)
Saying that there isn't guys out there that can be stars is the same mentality that WCW had in the 90's with people like Mark Callaway, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Terra Ryzing, Sexton Hardcastle, and many others.

Edge was never in WCW. Sexton Hardcastle was his indy gimmick.

I used to see him, Christian (Cage), Rhino (Richards), and Joe E. Legend as the group "Thug Life" all the time on the Detroit Indy scene for ICW. They were awesome.

Mike86 01-05-21 03:12 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
The problem is that the guys who are stars now days are mostly the comedic style guys. That just isnít my style whatsoever, and I question how long that will last, and how much long term damage it will do to the business.

Red Hood 01-05-21 03:36 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Jabroni (Post 13868526)
Edge was never in WCW. Sexton Hardcastle was his indy gimmick.

I used to see him, Christian (Cage), Rhino (Richards), and Joe E. Legend as the group "Thug Life" all the time on the Detroit Indy scene for ICW. They were awesome.

Yes he was, under the name Damon Striker



Obi-Wanma 01-05-21 03:40 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
Ok, I take that back, but was ever contracted to WCW, or was he just a random indy guy doing job work, as many of them do. Seeing as I had never heard about this until now, I would guess it was more likely the latter, The made up name was probably to protect his valuable at the time indy character.

Red Hood 01-05-21 03:53 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
After his run as Sexton, he was brought in and given tryout matches in 1996, but the powers that be, including Bischoff and Sullivan, didn't see anything special. Later that year, WWF brought him in for some matches in Canada, was sent to Bret Hart's house, where he was training wrestlers while injured and then WWF officially signed him to a developmental deal.

Red Hood 01-05-21 03:55 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
By the way, it is weird seeing Edge interact with the Giant so early in his career and later on they both went to become industry legends.

Obi-Wanma 01-05-21 05:26 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
Well to be fair, even as someone who watched and enjoyed him in the indies, I never really envisioned him becoming what he ultimately became either, so I wouldn't particularly blame WCW for not hitching their horse to him based on a few tryout matches. These kinds of matches happen every weekend (or they used to), and WWE has missed the boat on guys this way too. There's plenty of other guys that they actually had and misused to pin on them. Thanks for those matches though, I had never seen them!

Red Hood 01-06-21 01:40 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
Don't know if this one was posted before, but it's heartbreaking


devilshalo 01-06-21 05:02 PM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Jabroni (Post 13868606)
Well to be fair, even as someone who watched and enjoyed him in the indies, I never really envisioned him becoming what he ultimately became either, so I wouldn't particularly blame WCW for not hitching their horse to him based on a few tryout matches. These kinds of matches happen every weekend (or they used to), and WWE has missed the boat on guys this way too. There's plenty of other guys that they actually had and misused to pin on them. Thanks for those matches though, I had never seen them!

Was that the same for Hunter? I remember seeing him briefly in WCW and then he was in the WWF.

Hazel Motes 01-07-21 05:42 AM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 
Itís a good thing AEW signed Sting. If there is one thing theyíve been lacking itís having someone gingerly walk to and from the ring and just stare at people every Wednesday for 2 months.

Obi-Wanma 01-07-21 06:11 AM

Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.
 

Originally Posted by devilshalo (Post 13869442)
Was that the same for Hunter? I remember seeing him briefly in WCW and then he was in the WWF.

HHH was actually under contract to WCW for a year. He at first used his indy gimmck of Terra Ryzing and later transitioned to the blue blood type character of Jean-Paul Levesque and was teamed with Steven Regal.


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