GuessWho

CM Punk is basically retired for all we know and should be inducted in the next couple years. Though his recent TV involvement was as a Fox (not WWE) employee, it's still a good sign that there's some sort of relationship there.

Mike86

I really kind of doubt it. At least not for a long time. The only reason he was doing that show is because he was doing it through Fox Sports and not involved with many people in the WWE directly.

Red Hood

It’s heavily rumored that NXT will move to Tuesday nights after Wrestlemania due to USA scheduling NHL games on Wednesday. AEW will have Wednesday nights by themselves but now Impact is competing directly with WWE

Timber

So they will care even less than they do now!

fujishig

I complained before that a ton of the WWE roster worked better as heels and were kind of bland as faces.

I guess AEWs solution to this is just have everyone be heels but have them all fight each other (turning face just for the moment).

ViewAskewbian

So, some observances watching all the Manias in a row (1 a night) to get to this years. I'm at #14 now.

1) Again, Ventura and Gorilla were such a good pair on commentary.
2) Everything that Bobby Hennan said or did was gold!
3) Vince was pretty horrible on commentary. Seriously, go back and listen to a Mania he calls and take a drink every time he says "uhhohh". Don't even get me started on unbelievable.
5) Most Manias overall are pretty boring. I dozed off through a lot of matches because of how slow things are, not just in the ring but production wise. That and dead silent crowds. This would pick up in the Attitude era, of course.
6) Was surprised that I am 13 Manias in and there's hardly any real gimmick matches. Like, and somebody correct me if I am wrong, the cage only featured in Mania 2 so far. There was, of course, the famed ladder match and I suppose we can count the backlot brawl.
7) It was interesting, knowing where wrestlers careers go, to see them early on. Like follow Hart through all his Manias or HBK in the Rockers to solo early matches. Of course, there's Takers first few stinkers, the debut of HHH, Rock and Austin all in smaller matches or, in Hunter's case, a super squash against Warrior.

fujishig

I remember many years ago I went through all the Wrestlemanias up to that point (or tried to) around the time they released that big DVD boxset. For nostalgia reasons I still love WM3 but a lot of them were a chore to get through, not just because of the flaws you mentioned in the early product but also because they didn't do a great job recapping the feuds for those who weren't watching the tv product (some of that may be that there wasn't much buildup, or at least not what we're used to today).

There are some standout matches in almost every one (though I can't think of any for the first two).

Mike86

Yeah, for being big spectacles a bunch of the WrestleMania’s aren’t very good. At least not top to bottom.

Overall my favorites are probably I, III, X, X-Seven, X8, XIX, and 22. The first one I’m more giving credit for the significance of the show.

Hazel Motes

I wonder if Arn got the rights and MJF/Spears/FTR are gonna be The Four Horsemen. With Tully as manager and Wardlow as the muscle. I really hope so. Really good Dynamite episode.

I think I'm done with NXT. They were the last WWE brand I still watched every week. I gave up on RAW and Smackdown a few years ago. Ever since the move to 2 hours NXT has slowly turned to shit.

GuessWho

From memory:
Blindfold match with Rick The Model Martel vs Jake the Snake
King Kong Bundy in mixed tag team with midgets
Boxing match with Mr T vs Roddy Piper
Battle Royal with NFL stars

Timber

MJF along with Tully and FTR has potential to be great...but Spears though? He's the Paul Roma of the group. Some guys are just jobbers and that should be okay. They don't need to do something with everybody.

ViewAskewbian

Again, rewatching these old Manias and just hit the Attitude era. While the shows are far faster paced than the first decade, I am amazed now looking back how horrible so many matches are. Hell, Wrestlemania 16 (2000?) only had ONE singles match and it was a cat fight between Terrie and The Kat. So many matches are under 8 min. I get that they were all about angles, crash TV and shock value. It worked, I suppose, as when I was the perfect demographic for this I loved it!

I also totally forgot how over Sable was. It's surprising a Molly Holly gets a HOF nod instead of her or even an Elizabeth. I'd have figured there was animosity somewhere for Sable but she is Brock's wife and have to imagine was along for many events. Sooooo shrug.

fujishig

Someone's gotta take the pin. I'm fine with a Paul Roma/Mongo member of the group. They really needed a Flair-like promo/leader in the group and MJF fits that bill nicely, I just didn't think they'd put him in that position because he doesn't really need the group to get over.

It is the first time I can remember in recent history that a heel did a heel turn into... a bigger heel.

GuessWho

Did the Inner Circle make a face turn in the process? Hopefully not, which would make the feud tweener heels vs hated heels.

fujishig

They didn't exactly turn face but they are certainly the faces compared to the new Horsemen. We'll see after that program what happens.

I said it before but they do this a ton: Lance Archer (who is back to being a heel), Death Triangle, the Dark Order (which was understandable) and Hangman Adam Page, and this last PPV, Eddie Kingston have all turned either face or in between for a program or two. The Bucks kind of half turned heel.

Obi-Wanma

I feel like almost everybody in AEW is a heel of some kind. Not much makes sense in their storylines. What was MJF's reasoning for wanting to join the Inner Circle in the first place if he was just going to turn of them to start his own group without any of them?

Mike86

A lot of the wrestlers in AEW aren’t clearly defined and are face or heel depending on the situation. It’s dumb and doesn’t help with the storytelling. Doesn’t matter though as long as everyone has cool matches with lots of spots and flips.

Red Hood

And this is how I turn off Raw tonight. Five minutes in and I'm really dizzy because of the stupid camera shots going up and down and back and forth to the point that it was nauseating. Who the fuck thinks that makes for great TV?

Red Hood

Once again Vince booking shit that doesn't make sense. The Hurt Business had the tag titles and the WWE Tittle and they had them lose the tag belts at RAW against the New Day for no reason whatsoever, once again cutting the legs of an up and coming stable. Even worse, since they have nothing for AJ Styles, they just threw him and Osmos in a tag match at Wrestlemania for the titles against the New Day with no build up. Just lazy moronic booking.

Red Hood

By the way, there's a Covid outbreak on the NXT locker room, so a lot of people in the roster and those that work behind the scenes have been sent home to quarantine.

ViewAskewbian

Red Hood, you make me happy I am lost in older days of better storytelling.

Just finished Wrestlemania X-7, still holding up as my favorite Mania.

Mike86

WrestleMania X-Seven is arguably the best one overall. Really strong card overall with some all time classic moments. The worst part of it is the ending.

Red Hood

WM X-Seven is one of my favorites but man, that ending sucked. Stone Cold should never have been heel and worst of all, the storyline that followed made it worse. Austin has always hinted in his documentaries and interviews that this was the beginning of the end for his career. By this point, he was burned out, hurt and frustrated with the company's booking. He said that turning him heel and in Texas of all places didn't make sense. Steve agrees that this period made him expand his character's range but when the Invasion came and he was still put in that position of being the heel, it didn't make any sense at all, specially when he was getting the best pop of the entire company when the angle was starting. To me, that year has always been bittersweet as the end of WCW, the botched Invasion angle and the mishandling of almost the entire loaded roster lead to the creative shittiness that we have seen for the past 20 years.

ViewAskewbian

I agree and disagree. At the time, the shock of it was fantastic with Austin making a deal with the devil to ensure he won at any cost. It wasn't, say, Hogan heel turn shocking but it is up there in it being so unexpected. If it had panned out better, the turn could have been gold. But the timing was off considering the next year would be dominate by the horrible Invasion angle that was the company's biggest botch. Heel Austin had classic moments and his comedic stuff is still some of my favorite Austin moments. He did go on to have some amazing matches, too, though I do think this was his peak.

So, yes, the turn was not a good one but not judged as the ending to that particular match. It was a good capper. What followed, though, was not so great for various reasons, not necessarily any fault of Steve's workmanship.

incidentally, happy 3:16 Day!

ViewAskewbian

Wrestlemania X-8 was nice to relive. X-7 was a hard act to follow for sure but this one holds a special place to me as I was there. Hogan v Rock live was a surreal moment.

This may have been the year where they had so much star power:
Hogan
Flair
Rock
Austin
HHH
Taker
Jericho
Edge
Hall
Nash
...so many others.