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View Poll Results: Who would you vote for to be inducted into the HOF in 2019?
Lance Berkman
2.50%
Barry Bonds
65.00%
Roger Clemens
60.00%
Roy Halladay
52.50%
Todd Helton
7.50%
Andruw Jones
10.00%
Jeff Kent
15.00%
Edgar Martinez
60.00%
Fred McGriff
30.00%
Mike Mussina
42.50%
Roy Oswalt
0
0%
Andy Pettitte
7.50%
Juan Pierre
2.50%
Manny Ramirez
25.00%
Mariano Rivera
87.50%
Scott Rolen
5.00%
Curt Schilling
35.00%
Gary Sheffield
5.00%
Sammy Sosa
20.00%
Miguel Tejada
2.50%
Omar Vizquel
10.00%
Billy Wagner
10.00%
Larry Walker
15.00%
Michael Young
0
0%
Other (Include in your post)
2.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Old 11-27-18, 01:06 PM
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The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

It's that time of year again! The 2019 Hall of Fame ballot was released recently.

The question--Who would you vote for if you had the ballot in your hand?

The rules are the same for you, as it is for the writers. You can only vote for a maximum of 10 players. Also, if you want to predict who you actually think will be voted in, that's fine. But the poll is for your personal picks.

My apologies to the friends and family of Rick Ankiel, Jason Bay, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Travis Hafner, Ted Lilly, Derek Lowe, Darren Oliver, Placido Polanco, Vernon Wells and Kevin Youkilis. If you want to vote for any of those guys, I left you an "other" option in the poll.

Here are your returnees, along with the percentages they received a year ago:

Edgar Martínez, 70.4%, 10th year
Mike Mussina, 63.5%, 6th year
Roger Clemens, 57.3%, 7th year
Barry Bonds, 56.4%, 7th year
Curt Schilling, 51.2%, 6th year
Omar Vizquel, 37.0%, 2nd year
Larry Walker, 34.1%, 9th year
Fred McGriff, 23.2%, 10th year
Manny Ramírez, 22.0%, 3rd year
Jeff Kent, 14.5%, 6th year
Gary Sheffield, 11.1%, 5th year
Billy Wagner, 11.1%, 4th year
Scott Rolen, 10.2%, 2nd year
Sammy Sosa, 7.8%, 7th year
Andruw Jones, 7.3%, 2nd year
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Old 11-27-18, 01:13 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

And looking ahead, here's some selected candidates and the year in which they are eligible:

2020: Derek Jeter, Paul Konerko, Alfonso Soriano

2021: Tim Hudson, Torii Hunter, Aramis Ramirez and others.

2022: Prince Fielder, David Ortiz, Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira

2023: Carlos Beltran, Francisco Rodriguez

2024: Adrian Beltre, Joe Mauer, Chase Utley, David Wright
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Old 11-27-18, 01:13 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

I tossed Sammy Sosa a pity vote though I usually don't vote for known steroid users.

I am hoping that Bonds and Clemens don't get in by the writers.
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Old 11-27-18, 01:24 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

My holdovers from my ballot last year:

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Edgar Martinez
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling

At a glance, I'd add Halladay and Rivera. And there would be space to include Mussina and Walker.

My prediction: Halladay, Martinez & Rivera make the cut with Mussina making up ground but falling short.
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Old 11-27-18, 03:23 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

My holdovers were Edgar, Moose, Bonds, and Clemens. I added Rivera, obv, and threw Schilling a bone because he probably deserves to be in, even if he is an asshole.
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Old 11-27-18, 03:33 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

The info missing from the first post is the new arrivals :
Roy Halladay, Todd Helton, Andy Pettitte and Mariano Rivera are among several players who will make their BBWAA Hall of Fame ballot debut in 2019.

Also debuting this year are Rick Ankiel, Jason Bay, Lance Berkman, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Travis Hafner, Ted Lilly, Derek Lowe, Darren Oliver, Roy Oswalt, Juan Pierre, Placido Polanco, Miguel Tejada, Vernon Wells, Kevin Youkilis and Michael Young.
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Old 11-27-18, 03:37 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Hey can someone quickly give me the nutshell version of Edgar's HoF credentials? It's been so long that I kind of forgot his legacy. Great hitter, mostly a DH, right?
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Old 11-27-18, 03:38 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

For me:

Bonds
Clemens
Halladay
Martinez
Mussina
Rivera
Schilling

Bonds and Clemens were so dominant that the steroids weren't enough to keep them out for me. Mariano is the only one who seems to be an absolute lock this year (though Edgar seemed to be trending close, if I remember correctly)
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Old 11-27-18, 05:47 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Hey can someone quickly give me the nutshell version of Edgar's HoF credentials? It's been so long that I kind of forgot his legacy. Great hitter, mostly a DH, right?
mostly a DH, yes. He got a late start so a fairly short career, but was one of the purest/best hitters in the game at his peak.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...artied01.shtml
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Old 11-27-18, 05:49 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

My initial reaction is a no on Halladay but I didn't research and could change my mind.
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Old 11-28-18, 09:33 AM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Anyone who didn't vote for Rivera, please explain your vote.
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Old 11-28-18, 02:09 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Hey can someone quickly give me the nutshell version of Edgar's HoF credentials? It's been so long that I kind of forgot his legacy. Great hitter, mostly a DH, right?
He was legitimately one of the game's best hitters in the steroid era going by rate stats. But he was often injured and quit playing the field after 3 tepid seasons at third. I think many teams would have put him at first most of his career.

His counting stats are very low for a hitter of his caliber - most blame that on Seattle not bringing him up until well into his 20s.

20 years ago, there was no chance that Edgar was going to make the Hall of Fame. But many of the younger voters now are apparently voting purely on a person's stats based on SABR principles. He's really a borderline candidate based on WAR - the hit he takes as a DH makes him a marginal pick at best.
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Old 11-28-18, 02:19 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

The case for and against him
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Old 11-28-18, 02:25 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

I only selected Mariano (and I hate the Yankees), though I do have a soft spot for Edgar. He was an amazing hitter with a great eye at the plate, but his lack of power (especially at DH) and lack of any defense at all really hurts him.

2021 looks like a black hole. I don't think any of those first-timers are worthy.
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Old 11-28-18, 02:25 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

The biggest thing helping Edgar is that MLB Network has several people constantly shilling for his HOF case. Pedro claimed he was the toughest hitter he faced in the 1990s.
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Old 11-28-18, 02:27 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
He was legitimately one of the game's best hitters in the steroid era going by rate stats. But he was often injured and quit playing the field after 3 tepid seasons at third. I think many teams would have put him at first most of his career.

His counting stats are very low for a hitter of his caliber - most blame that on Seattle not bringing him up until well into his 20s.

20 years ago, there was no chance that Edgar was going to make the Hall of Fame. But many of the younger voters now are apparently voting purely on a person's stats based on SABR principles. He's really a borderline candidate based on WAR - the hit he takes as a DH makes him a marginal pick at best.
Yep, he doesn't have the counting stats partly from injury and partly because he didn't become a regular till he was 27, because the Mariners had other players at his position. The big injury that pretty much ended his defensive career happened during an exhibition game on a shoddy field. And yes, modern stats give him a boost, as he's one of only 21 players to have a career .300/.400/.500 slash line (.312/.418/.515). For intangibles, he didn't play much in the postseason, but his double to win the 1995 ALDS is often credited with saving baseball in this city.

I'm including him on my fake ballot, and I'll be excited if he gets in.
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Old 11-28-18, 04:33 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

so far 4 people have not voted for Rivera. And yet none have explained why.

Baseball Reference all time leaders in ERA, minimum 1000 IPs: https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...g_career.shtml
Baseball Reference all time leaders in ERA+, minimum 1000 IPs: https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...s_career.shtml
Same for WHIP: https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...p_career.shtml

Forget about the fact that he's a closer, he pitched over 1200 IPs, the equivalent of 6 full seasons, and has stats that would get him in if he had pitched those 6 seasons and then croaked.
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Old 11-28-18, 06:40 PM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
so far 4 people have not voted for Rivera. And yet none have explained why.

Baseball Reference all time leaders in ERA, minimum 1000 IPs: https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...g_career.shtml
Baseball Reference all time leaders in ERA+, minimum 1000 IPs: https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...s_career.shtml
Same for WHIP: https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...p_career.shtml

Forget about the fact that he's a closer, he pitched over 1200 IPs, the equivalent of 6 full seasons, and has stats that would get him in if he had pitched those 6 seasons and then croaked.
I can't say I expected Edgar to be leading Rivera 11-10 right now.
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Old 11-29-18, 09:23 AM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
That's a good article, thanks LD.

But I'm going to counterpoint his counterpoints about the DH:

1. His position is DH.
I hear this one a lot. DH isn't a position, it's a lack of a position. You don't get tabbed to be a career DH if you're a really good DH. You're a career DH because you're not good enough to play in the field.

2. The Hall of Fame already houses some below average to bad defensive players.
They still played the field and were at the very least good enough to go out there. If they were really bad, they'd be DH's. Edgar had injury concerns, I get that. But take an even more true career DH like David Ortiz - if he were even passable at first base, he would have been a first basemen.

3. There are closers in the Hall of Fame.
Here's the thing about closers - the failure rate is insanely high. Even the best guys can only do it for a few years before falling apart. So if you excel at the role for long enough to be in HOF consideration you must have been significantly more dominant than your peers.

Ultimately, I think the DH needs to be graded on a big curve. Not playing in the field allows a player to stay healthy for a longer period of time. If Martinez or Ortiz had to play the field everyday, would their careers have lasted as long? Would they have put up the same offensive numbers? I don't think so.

Having said that, grading on a curve doesn't necessarily mean they don't deserve to get in. I believe that during his playing days there were few guys in the world as good as Edgar Martinez and his impact on the game is undeniable. So he has my vote. I will, begrudgingly, say the same about Ortiz in a few years.
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Old 11-29-18, 09:43 AM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Goat3001, I agree with most of your post, we shouldn't treat DHs the same as all other players. That said, we also shouldn't ban them from the Hall.

I would point out that not all DHs are there because they can't play the field. DH is a slot in the lineup that must be filled, so the fact that Edgar or Ortiz or whoever was penciled in there doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't play the field, just that for that team, it made more sense for him to DH, either because they had someone else who could also hit but was better defensively, or in Edgar's case, they didn't want to risk losing him to injury.

As to Edgar, he was a decent fielder, they moved him to full time DH because of injury concerns. He didn't become a full time DH until he was 32, but he had missed a lot of games the previous 2 seasons because of injury. So yes, there's no doubt that being a DH prolonged his career and allowed him to be more dominant, but is that a reason to not vote for him? Even in the NL, bad outfielders with big bats often get moved to 1B for the second half of their careers, both because of how much they suck in the field and because of injury concerns, and we don't ding them for it. I don't think they deserve more credit (ie, should get in to the Hall with worse hitting stats) simply because they played the field but played it poorly, or had the simple "luck" to be in the NL vs the AL. His career is what it is, and in totality he deserves to be in, IMO.
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Old 11-29-18, 09:53 AM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

As a Blue Jays, I hope that Halladay goes to the HOF in his first year. I voted for Walker as a Canadian but that was a homer pick.

Is there an argument against Rivera for his entry to the HOF besides him being a closer? I don't think that you can argue with his entry at all.
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Old 11-29-18, 10:47 AM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Frankly the continued knock of DH's still seems like nothing more than ancient AL vs. NL crap. DH has been a legit role for decades now - deal with it.

Edgar should have been in years ago. Simply one of the better hitters, with above average power, ever. And if he played on better teams he would probably have far better stats in many categories (like RBI) as well.
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Old 11-29-18, 11:22 AM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
Anyone who didn't vote for Rivera, please explain your vote.
why would i vote for Carlos Rivera? he's only hitting .218
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Old 11-29-18, 11:38 AM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Jayson Stark had an interesting point on The Athletic that Todd Helton in his 14 seasons as a full-time player had a road OPS of .871 (12th best), road OBP of .391 (ninth best), road BA of .291 (12th best), so it's not like he was purely a product of Coors Field. Not sure I'm there for voting for him, though.

He also said that Fred McGriff batted cleanup for his teams 1826 times, which is second-most ever (Eddie Murray 2041, Willie McCovey 1622, Lou Gehrig 1545, Willie Stargell 1535). Obviously there's a lot that could go into that, like playing with bad teammates, but it's interesting. I consider McGriff a surefire candidate for Very Good for a Long Time, which in some cases means HOF, but I'm also biased because he was mostly a numbers-padder when he was with the Cubs.
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Old 11-29-18, 11:43 AM
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Re: The 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by Cardsfan111 View Post
And looking ahead, here's some selected candidates and the year in which they are eligible:

2020: Derek Jeter, Paul Konerko, Alfonso Soriano

2021: Tim Hudson, Torii Hunter, Aramis Ramirez and others.

2022: Prince Fielder, David Ortiz, Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira

2023: Carlos Beltran, Francisco Rodriguez

2024: Adrian Beltre, Joe Mauer, Chase Utley, David Wright
Some lean years coming up, IMO. From my perspective it's Jeets and Ortiz. I think Arod clearly had the pedigree but he'll never get in the first year with all his baggage.
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