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View Poll Results: Who would you vote for to be inducted into the HOF in 2018?
Barry Bonds
58.06%
Chris Carpenter
0
0%
Roger Clemens
61.29%
Johnny Damon
3.23%
Vladimir Guerrero
74.19%
Trevor Hoffman
54.84%
Andruw Jones
9.68%
Chipper Jones
80.65%
Jeff Kent
3.23%
Edgar Martinez
70.97%
Hideki Matsui
6.45%
Fred McGriff
35.48%
Jamie Moyer
3.23%
Mike Mussina
45.16%
Manny Ramirez
29.03%
Scott Rolen
6.45%
Johan Santana
6.45%
Curt Schilling
35.48%
Gary Sheffield
19.35%
Sammy Sosa
9.68%
Jim Thome
48.39%
Omar Vizquel
25.81%
Billy Wagner
3.23%
Larry Walker
19.35%
Other (Include in your post)
6.45%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Old 01-25-18, 11:37 PM
  #126  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by davidh777 View Post
Yeah, and Griffey never had the big body.
It was well-known in baseball circles that Griffey was lazy (for a pro athlete, not a normal human) and never worked out much. It's why some think he fell apart in his 30s. If he was doing steroids, he was using them wrong.

Thome and Hoffman were widely admired and respected by the writers during their playing careers for their off-field demeanor and personalities. I suspect that played a big part in their vote totals.

If Hoffman had been a jerk or disliked, I think he would have had a much tougher time making the Hall.
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Old 01-26-18, 01:58 AM
  #127  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by fumanstan View Post
They're not exactly the most storied franchise (except for the bad stories ). The only guys I could think of off the top of my head were Carew and Ryan, and while Ryan would've made sense, it's obvious why he would prefer the Rangers. Don Baylor won an MVP with them but is of the Very Good caliber.

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
It was well-known in baseball circles that Griffey was lazy (for a pro athlete, not a normal human) and never worked out much. It's why some think he fell apart in his 30s. If he was doing steroids, he was using them wrong.
Yeah, I've heard that, and I don't doubt it. That's one of the risks when everything comes easily to you, though I'm sure the years on the Kingdome turf didn't help his knees any either.
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Old 01-26-18, 01:49 PM
  #128  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by DVD Josh View Post
I continue to maintain that Mussina belongs in the Hall of the Very Good, but not HOF.
Then what the fuck does that make Jack Morris?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/c...ussimi01.shtml
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Old 01-26-18, 02:05 PM
  #129  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

I think Mussina would have sailed in on the first ballot if he had simply hung around another year or two. It wasn't like he was washed up at the end. He simply got tired of the baseball grind and had earned so much money he didn't want to come back.

Mussina was always a consistently excellent pitcher but his peak years came in the obscurity of Baltimore, overshadowed by Cal's streak. He was not the same pitcher with the Yankees, even though he had many good years for them.
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Old 11-05-18, 05:44 PM
  #130  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

10 named to Today's Game Era ballot for Hall


By Daniel Kramer MLB.com @DKramer_
2:52 PM EST

The Today's Game Era ballot for the National Baseball Hall of Fame was revealed Monday, comprised of a combination of 10 players, managers and an owner who will receive consideration to be enshrined in baseball's most historic and distinguished place in history.

Harold Baines, Albert Belle, Joe Carter, Will Clark, Orel Hershiser, Davey Johnson, Charlie Manuel, Lou Piniella, Lee Smith and George Steinbrenner are those receiving consideration for the class of 2019. Baines, Belle, Carter, Clark, Hershiser and Smith are included for their contributions as players, while Johnson, Manuel and Piniella are included for their roles as managers. Steinbrenner, who is the only candidate that is no longer living, is nominated for his role as former Yankees owner.

Voting for the Today's Game Era Committee will take place on Dec. 9 at the Winter Meetings in Las Vegas. A 16-member Hall of Fame Board-appointed electorate charged with the review of the Today's Game Era ballot will be announced later this fall.

The Today's Game Era is one of four Eras Committees -- along with Modern Baseball, Golden Days and Early Baseball -- that provide an avenue outside voting by the Baseball Writers' Association of America for Hall of Fame consideration to managers, umpires and executives, as well as players retired for more than 15 seasons. Specifically, the Today's Game Committee encompasses candidates who made the most indelible contributions to baseball from 1988 to the present.

The Today's Game ballot, along with Modern Baseball, are considered twice over every five-year period. The last electees from the Today's Game ballot were John Schuerholz, the architect of the '90s Braves, and Bud Selig, the former MLB Commissioner and Brewers owner, in 2016.

The finalists revealed Monday were selected by the Historical Overview Committee, which is appointed by the BBWAA. Veteran historians took part in determining this year's ballot, including Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun, Jim Henneman, formerly of the Baltimore Sun, Rick Hummel of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Steve Hirdt of the Elias Sports Bureau, Bill Madden, formerly of the New York Daily News, Jack O'Connell of the BBWAA, Jim Reeves, formerly of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Tracy Ringolsby of Baseball America, Glenn Schwarz, formerly of the San Francisco Chronicle, Dave van Dyck of the Chicago Tribune and Mark Whicker of the Los Angeles News Group.



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Old 11-05-18, 08:52 PM
  #131  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Good work, Decker!

When I saw that news release, I thought about sticking that on to the 2018 ballot thread but couldn't get myself motivated to do so right away.

Lots of fond memories of all of those names now that I'm older and can remember seeing each one in action. Lots of players who are already Hall of Very Good Inductees. I wasn't sure about any of the non-player types. Steinbrenner is so iconic, but partly because of being in the mainstream public eye from being portrayed in Seinfeld. I'm indifferent to the managers.
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Old 11-05-18, 10:12 PM
  #132  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Smith is the only player from the list that should be in the Hall.

I'm not a fan of owners going in just because their team won a title or two. For me the owner has to have done something significant to change the game. An example is Davis and Hunt in the NFL, two individuals that changed the entire make up of the league.
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Old 11-06-18, 02:22 AM
  #133  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

I’d be fine with all those players staying in the Hall of Very Good. Hershiser caught my eye, but I guess he wasn’t that special aside from 1988.
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Old 11-06-18, 04:09 PM
  #134  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

The only person on that list with a legitimate Hall of Fame peak is Albert Belle, but his career was cut short by injury.

I don't mind if no one from that ballot makes it.

Last edited by PhantomStranger; 11-07-18 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 11-06-18, 04:25 PM
  #135  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

I really think Lee Smith would have made it if the vote was today rather than back then. There was a heavy bias against Relief Pitching which to me made no sense. A Closer may never be as important as an Ace, but they're still very important. And Smith was a all-time top 5 closer. So without that bias, he should be in.
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Old 11-06-18, 04:43 PM
  #136  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
The only person on that list with a legitimate Hall of Fame peak is Albert Belle, but his career was cut short by injury.
Dude could really throw a baseball bat though.
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Old 11-06-18, 05:22 PM
  #137  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
I really think Lee Smith would have made it if the vote was today rather than back then. There was a heavy bias against Relief Pitching which to me made no sense. A Closer may never be as important as an Ace, but they're still very important. And Smith was a all-time top 5 closer. So without that bias, he should be in.
You might be right in terms of his timing, but I don't think he belongs. I think he was very good for a long time, and for some positions that's enough. As a relief pitcher, though, I think the bar is higher and rightfully so.
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Old 11-06-18, 05:34 PM
  #138  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Player #1

Career

WAR 29.0

W 71 L 92

ERA 3.03

G 1022

GS 6

SV 478

IP 1289.1

SO 1251

WHIP 1.256

Player #2


Career

WAR 28.0

W 61 L 75

ERA 2.87

G 1035

GS 0

SV 601

IP 1089.1

SO 1133

WHIP 1.058

Spoiler:
Player #1 is Lee Smith. Player #2 is Hall of Famer Trevor Hoffman (elected on his third ballot after just missing on his second attempt).
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Old 11-06-18, 05:36 PM
  #139  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Player #1

Career

WAR 29.0

W 71 L 92

ERA 3.03

G 1022

GS 6

SV 478

IP 1289.1

SO 1251

WHIP 1.256

Player #2


Career

WAR 28.0

W 61 L 75

ERA 2.87

G 1035

GS 0

SV 601

IP 1089.1

SO 1133

WHIP 1.058

Spoiler:
Player #1 is Lee Smith. Player #2 is Hall of Famer Trevor Hoffman (elected on his third ballot after just missing on his second attempt).
I find a difference of 125 saves for a closer to be quite significant.
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Old 11-06-18, 05:40 PM
  #140  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Player #1

Career

WAR 29.0

W 71 L 92

ERA 3.03

G 1022

GS 6

SV 478

IP 1289.1

SO 1251

WHIP 1.256

Player #2


Career

WAR 28.0

W 61 L 75

ERA 2.87

G 1035

GS 0

SV 601

IP 1089.1

SO 1133

WHIP 1.058
I didn't need to look at the spoiler as I knew who both players were by the stats. Like Josh, I view the difference in saves as significant. The WHIP and ERA numbers also clearly favor Hoffman, especially WHIP. Regardless, I was in favor of Hoffman but felt it was close, and I think Smith has a good case, but you have to draw the line somewhere, and IMO the line is between them.
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Old 11-06-18, 06:28 PM
  #141  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by DVD Josh View Post
I find a difference of 125 saves for a closer to be quite significant.
Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
I didn't need to look at the spoiler as I knew who both players were by the stats. Like Josh, I view the difference in saves as significant. The WHIP and ERA numbers also clearly favor Hoffman, especially WHIP. Regardless, I was in favor of Hoffman but felt it was close, and I think Smith has a good case, but you have to draw the line somewhere, and IMO the line is between them.
That's totally fair. But I think Smith set a standard that only Hoffman and Mariano have surpassed since (and the use of Closers has changed in the 15 years after he retired). I mean if we think that there's a reason that he never made it in -- a reason why anyone doesn't garner 75% of the vote in 10 ballots, that is pretty understandable. But if that's going to be our standard, why does this committee even exist?

I thought its purpose was to correct oversights of the voters. If that's the case, then Lee Smith is exactly the kind of candidate who should get another look -- one of the best ever at his position. In an under-valued position. Long, respectable but maybe unspectacular, career.
There's no real compelling argument to make today about Albert Belle or Joe Carter. Their numbers are their numbers, their highlights are their highlights. We get and understand their careers and have since they retired.
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Old 11-07-18, 11:19 AM
  #142  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
That's totally fair. But I think Smith set a standard that only Hoffman and Mariano have surpassed since (and the use of Closers has changed in the 15 years after he retired). I mean if we think that there's a reason that he never made it in -- a reason why anyone doesn't garner 75% of the vote in 10 ballots, that is pretty understandable. But if that's going to be our standard, why does this committee even exist?

I thought its purpose was to correct oversights of the voters. If that's the case, then Lee Smith is exactly the kind of candidate who should get another look -- one of the best ever at his position. In an under-valued position. Long, respectable but maybe unspectacular, career.
There's no real compelling argument to make today about Albert Belle or Joe Carter. Their numbers are their numbers, their highlights are their highlights. We get and understand their careers and have since they retired.
Where did I say that this committee shouldn't exist? And why does saying that the voters got it right WRT Smith imply that the voters always get it right?

I do think they got it right with Smith. I won't be upset if they ultimately let him in, but I think they got it right. And I don't think closer is "under-valued", I think it is correct that it's harder to get in as a closer. And if we're talking deserving closers, I think Billy Wagner is more deserving than Smith (shorter but more dominant career). The voters definitely have gotten some stuff wrong; Alan Trammell & Lou Whitaker comes to mind, the committee got it right by inducting Trammell but it's so wrong that Lou's not in. I just don't think the voters were wrong on Smith.
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Old 11-07-18, 11:26 AM
  #143  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

I think it's a fair question about why the committee exists. But yeah, I can see some cases that would warrant further review, and Sweet Lou Whitaker was going to be my example , especially because he had so little time on the ballot. If they decide he's not worthy, then life will go on. I just hope the committee will evaluate each case on its own merits and not say "Well, Smith is the best of this crop so let's elect him."
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Old 11-07-18, 01:13 PM
  #144  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by davidh777 View Post
I think it's a fair question about why the committee exists. But yeah, I can see some cases that would warrant further review, and Sweet Lou Whitaker was going to be my example , especially because he had so little time on the ballot. If they decide he's not worthy, then life will go on. I just hope the committee will evaluate each case on its own merits and not say "Well, Smith is the best of this crop so let's elect him."
agree 100%. IMV, the committee is about rectifying mistakes (ie someone who should have gotten in through the front door), not about letting in through the back door the best of those guys who didn't make it through the front door.
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Old 11-07-18, 02:46 PM
  #145  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Probably wouldn't vote for any of the ten but agree on a guy like Whitaker who never got a fair shot his first time around and was gone after his first time. Kenny Lofton might be another. Lee Smith was on the ballot for 15 years from 2003-2017, brought him back too soon and should have to be at least a five year wait from the normal ballot.
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Old 11-07-18, 03:36 PM
  #146  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Hoffman was beloved by the writers as a person. It does seem to help marginal candidates if they were super-nice to writers over their career.

Honestly, Hoffman probably doesn't belong in the Hall.
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Old 11-07-18, 04:25 PM
  #147  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Hoffman was beloved by the writers as a person. It does seem to help marginal candidates if they were super-nice to writers over their career.

Honestly, Hoffman probably doesn't belong in the Hall.
I was for Hoffman, but I think the Hall would be better without both Hoffman and Smith than with both of them.
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Old 12-09-18, 08:40 PM
  #148  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Congratulations to Lee Smith for an honor that was long, long over due.

I am surprised by Harold Baines election, which obviously bodes very well for Edgar Martinez's chances.
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Old 12-09-18, 08:51 PM
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

He will get in but this vote for Baines does nothing for Martinez as they are completely different voters. You can see this just by the fact Smith as rejected 15 times and then gets in first time with this group.
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Old 12-09-18, 11:50 PM
  #150  
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Re: The 2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Originally Posted by WCChiCubsFan View Post
Congratulations to Lee Smith for an honor that was long, long over due.

I am surprised by Harold Baines election, which obviously bodes very well for Edgar Martinez's chances.
I like that Baines is in but surprise as hell. In the tweet above announcing the candidates for era selection, Baines had the lowest chances of the group except for Albert Belle.
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