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Do you play daily fantasy sports?

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View Poll Results: Do you play daily/weekly fantasy sports?
Yes, and I enjoy it
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Yes, but I have concerns
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6.06%
No, but I want to try it
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3.03%
No, I have no interest
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66.67%
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3.03%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Old 10-06-15, 01:22 PM
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Do you play daily fantasy sports?

We can't get away from the ads for these daily sites like FanDuel and DraftKings, and the topic has come up in different threads, so I figured we could have a focused discussion.

Personally, I don't play because I don't like the micro-transaction model, and fantasy is more about community than winning the pot (though I like that, don't get me wrong). I play fantasy but don't gamble, and this feels like gambling to me. The fantasy podcasts I listen to push the daily games all the time, but Christopher Harris has added a "seek help if you need it" disclaimer as if it were a Saturday night bingo game.

A couple posts from other threads:

Originally Posted by Osiris3657 View Post
I've played Fan Duel for 3 years now and made money off it. Unfortunately, not the type of money in the advertisements. "I made $60K this week!" I wish...it is possible though.

The daily leagues that have thousands of players are really difficult to make money in. You have to hit on every position. If one player sucks, you're not going to be in a money spot. Last year I placed 2nd overall in one of these 10,000+ people leagues and made $600. That's the most I've ever made from one league.

I usually play the 100 people or less leagues. Entry fees are $5 to $10 and the 1st place spot is $250. Never gotten first, but have made 2nd on a couple occasions this year, netting $125 each time.

Most weeks though, I only make about $20 or $30...but I still dream and throw a few bucks into those big pools every week in hopes of one day landing those awesome $5,000-$40,000 first place prizes.

Give it a shot, but just understand that it's not easy and you won't win money most weeks if you play the leagues with thousands of people.
Originally Posted by Red Hood View Post
For years, ESPN has been caught in conflict of interests scenarios. They want to be both, a news network and a sports channel but this formula simply doesn't work. Sports leagues have to much money and input to let the news side of ESPN soil their reputations. This has led to another battle in the making. Have you guys seen the ridiculous amount of ads for Daily fantasy sports sites, like Fan Duel? Well, it seems that many of the reporters inside ESPN don't like it and now some of them like Scott Van Pelt and Karl Ravech have been the first two to publicly use their TV time to harshly criticize these type of leagues, basically calling them gambling sites. I don't think this is going to end well and we may see some heads roll before this is over, since ESPN won't lose ad money for this.
And then this:

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/...duel-advantage

DraftKings says employee didn't have unfair advantage on FanDuel

Spoiler:
Online fantasy sport sites DraftKings and FanDuel continued to defend their integrity Tuesday following the disclosure that a DraftKings employee won $350,000 with information used in a way that some have likened to insider trading.

The DraftKings employee finished second on Sept. 27 in the FanDuel NFL Sunday Million contest, which paid out a total of $5 million in prizes, including $1 million to the winner. Users in online forums asked whether the employee might have used information detailing the percentages of entrants who selected certain fantasy players to make his selections.

The information in question could be used to draft fantasy teams that include players that aren't in widespread use in any given contest. If those players perform well, the odds of the person holding them winning go up dramatically.

In a statement issued early Tuesday morning, DraftKings said that it conducted a "thorough investigation, including examining records of internal communications and access to our database," and found that "this employee could not have used the information in question to make decisions about his FanDuel lineup."

The employee admitted to inadvertently releasing data before Week 3 NFL games, the New York Times reported on Monday. DraftKings, in its statement, said that the "employee in question did not receive the data on player utilization until 1:40 p.m. ET on Sept. 27," and FanDuel lineups locked at 1 p.m. ET.

"This clearly demonstrates that this employee could not possibly have used the information in question to make decisions about his FanDuel lineup. Again, there is no evidence that any information was used to create an unfair advantage and any insinuations to the contrary are factually incorrect," DraftKings said in the statement.

On Tuesday, FanDuel issued a statement saying employees from both DraftKings and its site have temporarily been banned from "participating in online fantasy sports contests for money."

"We are temporarily restricting employees from participating in DFS contests as an interim measure while we work with the fantasy industry to develop and implement a more formal policy," the statement said.

Major League Baseball, which has a partnership with DraftKings, also released a statement Tuesday, saying that it is "surprised" that the company's employees are allowed to participate in contests.

"Major League Baseball has a policy that prohibits players and employees from participating in fantasy baseball games in which prize money or other things of value are available to participants," MLB said in its statement. "We were surprised to learn that DraftKings allowed its employees to participate in daily fantasy games. We have reached out and discussed this matter with them."

Both DraftKings and FanDuel posted on their sites an unusual joint statement defending their businesses, saying nothing is more important than the integrity of the games they offer to customers and that employees with access to data are "rigorously monitored by internal fraud control teams."

A DraftKings spokesman acknowledged Monday that employees of both companies have earned sizable prizes playing at other daily fantasy sites.

The incident comes at a time when the daily fantasy industry is booming, and DraftKings and FanDuel are spending tens of millions of dollars on advertising, which touts the ability of contest winners to get rich playing daily fantasy sports. It calls into question how valuable data is protected and who has access to it.

It also comes at a time when there are still gray areas surrounding the legality of the contests and no independent oversight over how the contests are run and whether everyone who enters is on a level playing field.

DraftKings did not respond to questions about what policies and controls it has in place, but a spokeswoman for FanDuel said her company does not believe there was any attempt to manipulate its contest.

"We operate based on the trust of our players," Justine Sacco said. "This is not a new issue for us as a company or an industry, and maintaining the integrity of our contests and games is paramount to sustaining and growing our business."

Questions about the release of the percentages of drafted players were first raised in a posting on the Rotogrinders site and reported more in depth by DFS Report and the Legal Sports Report websites.

Chris Grove, who operates the Legal Sports Report site, said even the outside possibility of a rigged contest raises critical questions about the integrity of the daily fantasy industry.

"There are questions the industry cannot provide a satisfactory answer to," Grove said. "They can't tell you who has access to what data and what controls they have in place to ensure data isn't abused. Even if they did tell you, consumers wouldn't find the answers totally satisfactory. That's a recipe for regulatory intervention."

Daniel Wallach, a sports and gambling lawyer at Becker & Poliakoff in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, echoed Grove's comments but went further by speculating that regulation will be introduced if the industry fails to address its urgent primary weaknesses.

"The single greatest threat to the daily fantasy sports industry is the misuse of insider information," Wallach told the New York Times. "It could imperil this nascent industry unless real, immediate and meaningful safeguards are put in place. If the industry is unwilling to undertake these reforms voluntarily, it will be imposed on them involuntarily as part of a regulatory framework."

The broader issue is whether players who put up entry fees to try to win money in the contests can be sure that insiders -- or anyone else -- are not getting an unfair advantage. There is no regulation of online daily fantasy, which has exploded the past two years into an industry where billions of dollars are at stake.

Joe Asher, who heads U.S. operations for the William Hill sports betting chain, said daily fantasy is gambling and should be regulated by the government, just as sportsbooks are regulated in Nevada to ensure everything is on the up-and-up.

"I'm all for daily fantasy betting," Asher said. "I think it should be legal, I think it should be regulated and I think it should be taxed. But nobody is in favor of unregulated Internet gambling, and that is exactly what daily fantasy sports is."

Marc Edelman, a law professor and sports business scholar at Baruch College, City University of New York, said the risk for the sites and their investors -- Major League Baseball is among those with a deal with DraftKings -- is whether insider information could be used to win contests.

"There's a big difference between fixing a game in sports betting and trading on insider information in daily fantasy," Edelman said. "It might be difficult to convince a team or a member of a team to lose on purpose. It's a lot easier to have material information about a player's mentality or physical condition no one else does and pass that along."
Old 10-06-15, 01:50 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

I use Fanduel for MLB and Draftkings for NFL. I enjoy it. I like dicking around and setting up line ups. I don't make nor lose much money doing it.

For NFL, I do one or two $10 50/50's every week. Not much money will be made but last year I cashed out a profit which paid for my other real fantasy league. I'm also good enough to win the 50/50's 75% of the time.

I only join the bigger leagues that pay out the million when I get a free entry.
Old 10-06-15, 02:04 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

I use Draft Kings, but I usually only play the $0.25 games. If you finish first you can win a few grand, but the most I've won is $2.00.
I just do it for fun. Set about 8 different lineups a week and let them rip.
Old 10-06-15, 02:11 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

It's not legal where I live (Iowa), so I don't play. I'd love to, though.
Old 10-06-15, 02:14 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

In regards to gambling: I don't understand how it's any worse than any other fantasy league. Fantasy Football was a huge money thing long before Fanduel/Draftkings.
Old 10-06-15, 02:41 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Haven't yet. Not sure if I ever will.
Old 10-06-15, 03:35 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Originally Posted by Goat3001 View Post
In regards to gambling: I don't understand how it's any worse than any other fantasy league. Fantasy Football was a huge money thing long before Fanduel/Draftkings.
I'm wondering how this daily stuff can be called gambling, but the season long stuff is not.

I'm out for the same reason I gave up the season long fantasy stuff. Lack of time after my daughter was born. Given my past success rate I was bummed to give it up, but I just don't have the time to put towards it anymore.
Old 10-06-15, 04:20 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

I use Fan Duel for the NFL weekly. I generally set 1-3 $2 lineups and overall I'm up a few bucks. It definitely makes my Sunday's more interesting. I'd love to start a thread where we could talk strategy and match ups... Give advice to one another.
Old 10-06-15, 04:35 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

There was a great write up on Deadspin last week about how it all works. I think if you look at it from the perspective that you're not going to walking away with millions it can be fun. I play in enough different leagues though with friends and co-workers that I really don't have any interest in it but I can see the appeal...the number of commercials on Sundays is enough to drive anyone crazy though.
Old 10-06-15, 05:11 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

I've played for $10/week the first few weeks. Didn't do well. But I hardly paid any attention to it. I was far more absorbed in my regular fantasy teams.
Old 10-06-15, 05:23 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Originally Posted by davidh777 View Post
cPersonally, I don't play because I don't like the micro-transaction model, and fantasy is more about community than winning the pot (though I like that, don't get me wrong). I play fantasy but don't gamble, and this feels like gambling to me.
Exactly how I feel. I play fantasy football for the community (it's a great way of keeping in touch with people all over the country). I don't like gambling. It stresses me out and isn't fun for me. Though I have no problem with people who like gambling (and I think it's silly that all gambling isn't legal for people of legal age).

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
I'm wondering how this daily stuff can be called gambling, but the season long stuff is not.
It's all gambling. No one who has played fantasy sports can deny there is a huge element of luck. I think skill shows itself more over time. Just like a single hand of poker is almost all luck, a tournament is some skill with a great deal of luck, while long term success is where true skill shows itself. So daily fantasy is more of a crap shoot than a season long league. Though if you play daily fantasy all season, then the skill and luck ratio are about the same.
Old 10-06-15, 05:29 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

This is worse odds than casino gambling
According to research by Sports Business Daily, over one three-month stretch 91% of the player profits at DraftKings and FanDuel were won by just 1.3% of the players.

Draftking employees won around 6 million dollars on fanduel.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/draftk...190600043.html

Yeah, NFL, TimeWarner, MLB, etc should all be ashamed and those ads hopefully will come down soon. Hopefully, there will be some serious class action here.
Old 10-07-15, 10:50 AM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Christopher Harris directly addressed the issue on his podcast and said he will continue to accept advertising because he trusts the people he's worked with. I'm not thrilled with the decision, but I don't have even as much info as he has, so I respect it, and appreciate that he brought it up.

FanDuel makes its employee ban permanent:

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/...y-amid-inquiry

FanDuel permanently bans employees from playing DFS for money amid inquiryTwo of the biggest daily fantasy sites, DraftKings and FanDuel, responded Wednesday morning to calls asking for greater transparency.

FanDuel announced, in a statement, that it had permanently banned its employees from playing on other fantasy sites, a day after the two sites temporarily imposed that ban. Both companies had always banned employees from playing on their own sites.

FanDuel also announced that it had no information that any of its contests were compromised by insider information, but it hired former federal judge and U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey to "review the facts and evaluate our internal controls, standards and practices." The company is also implementing an internal advisory board that will be led by Michael Garcia, a former U.S. attorney.

For its part, DraftKings CEO Jason Robins, in an interview with Fox Business on Wednesday morning, announced it has hired a third-party law firm to review the findings of its investigation. DraftKings has maintained that employee Ethan Haskell, who won $350,000 on an NFL contest on FanDuel, did not have access to DraftKings internal data ahead of locking in his lineup that would have provided him with an unfair advantage.

"We are completely committed to creating an open and transparent environment," DraftKings CEO Jason Robins said on Fox, which has an ownership stake in DraftKings. "Having the trust of our customers that the game is fair is everything to us."

FanDuel spokesperson Justine Sacco told ESPN.com on Tuesday that the company's internal data showed that DraftKings employees won 0.3 percent of the money the company has awarded in its history. While Sacco wouldn't disclose the specific number, it is known the company has given out nearly $2 billion, which would put the DraftKings employees' winnings at around $6 million.

The move by both companies comes after New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman launched an inquiry into DraftKings and FanDuel on Tuesday night by sending letters to Robins and FanDuel CEO Nigel Eccles requesting more information.

In the letters, which have been shared with ESPN.com, Schneiderman asked the two if they could provide names and titles of employees who compile player data, set roster values, deal with ownership percentages for pending and historical contests and aggregate the success of players who play on their sites. Schneiderman is seeking this data covering the past year.

Schneiderman's letter also seeks to understand where the data is stored, what protocols are in place to protect that information and what the company policy is regarding the sharing of that information. Schneiderman asks DraftKings for more specifics about its investigation into Haskell, including how he might have received access to the data and who would have given it to him. Schneiderman is giving FanDuel, which is based in New York, and DraftKings, which is based in Boston, until Oct. 15 to respond to his questions.
Old 10-08-15, 12:35 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Originally Posted by brainee View Post
It's all gambling. No one who has played fantasy sports can deny there is a huge element of luck. I think skill shows itself more over time. Just like a single hand of poker is almost all luck, a tournament is some skill with a great deal of luck, while long term success is where true skill shows itself. So daily fantasy is more of a crap shoot than a season long league. Though if you play daily fantasy all season, then the skill and luck ratio are about the same.
I agree that it's all gambling, though we all know that the courts ruled that fantasy was a "game of skill." I do agree that the season-long timeframe and community aspect of "commissioner-style" fantasy makes it seem less egregious than some guy sitting at his computer plugging in picks. Heck, suicide leagues and stuff like that require just as much or more skill than fantasy (especially in these days of autodraft). It's all a matter of perception.
Old 10-08-15, 01:05 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Originally Posted by davidh777 View Post
I agree that it's all gambling, though we all know that the courts ruled that fantasy was a "game of skill." I do agree that the season-long timeframe and community aspect of "commissioner-style" fantasy makes it seem less egregious than some guy sitting at his computer plugging in picks. Heck, suicide leagues and stuff like that require just as much or more skill than fantasy (especially in these days of autodraft). It's all a matter of perception.
Isn't the main difference with the daily sites the setting of the values?
Old 10-08-15, 02:21 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
Isn't the main difference with the daily sites the setting of the values?
I don't play myself, but do you mean AJ Green costs XXX dollars or points while Victor Cruz costs X? I agree that would be a big difference, like Vegas oddsmakers setting point spreads.
Old 10-08-15, 02:38 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Originally Posted by davidh777 View Post
I don't play myself, but do you mean AJ Green costs XXX dollars or points while Victor Cruz costs X? I agree that would be a big difference, like Vegas oddsmakers setting point spreads.
Yes. It takes more of the "skill" out of the equation. If everyone has the same information without different amount of work, it is simply a game of chance.

That assumes of course that the sites are somewhat objectively setting the values.
Old 10-08-15, 02:52 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

I'm not sure you understand the concept if you think that assigning values to players negates the skill involved. It, in fact, makes it more skillful. You don't just any players you want. You have to make these players you pick fit under a salary cap.

The values are set by an algorithm based on the players previous performances and fluctuates week to week.
Old 10-08-15, 03:18 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Originally Posted by Goat3001 View Post
I'm not sure you understand the concept if you think that assigning values to players negates the skill involved. It, in fact, makes it more skillful. You don't just any players you want. You have to make these players you pick fit under a salary cap.

The values are set by an algorithm based on the players previous performances and fluctuates week to week.
No I get it. It requires less skill.


Take the example of an complete novice, somebody who knows next to nothing about the NFL, maybe only knowing the names of Brady and Manning. Do you think they can put together a team with a reasonable chance of doing well using the pre-set values, assuming they have a basic competency in math and decent reading skills?
Old 10-08-15, 03:55 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
No I get it. It requires less skill.


Take the example of an complete novice, somebody who knows next to nothing about the NFL, maybe only knowing the names of Brady and Manning. Do you think they can put together a team with a reasonable chance of doing well using the pre-set values, assuming they have a basic competency in math and decent reading skills?
"reasonable chance of doing well"... no, I do not believe so. Your scenario would assume that players will always perform up to the level of their price point and that there are no forces outside of luck that can change that. We know that to not be true.

For example: Let's say your novice fills out his entire team and is left with $6700 to fill out his last RB spot. The novice will take Eddie Lacy without too much consideration as he's priced exactly at that point and the novice will assume, based on nothing else, that Lacy must be the best option since he's the highest price. The more experienced player will see that Devonta Freeman is $400 cheaper but also knows that Freeman is simply the better player this season and will choose him, even though he'll be left with $400 hanging around.

To me, that may not require more skill than a re-draft league but it definitely requires some more careful management. In a re-draft league, a novice can too run through pre-draft rankings and pick players based on that and will have just as much of a reasonable chance of doing well. I also believe there is an equal amount of luck involved, the only difference being that long term injuries have no effect on daily leagues.

Most importantly "doing well" only gets you so far. Of course if a novice puts together a team that team may not finish in last, may not even finish anywhere close to last. But in order to succeed, you need to place in the money and that means you need to be better than at least 50% of your opponents, which is difficult for a novice to pull off a reasonable amount of time.

With all that said, I would be very interested in putting this to a test and have someone draft a team with a salary cap without knowing what player they are drafting and only knowing the price.

Last edited by Goat3001; 10-08-15 at 04:13 PM.
Old 10-08-15, 05:24 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
No I get it. It requires less skill.


Take the example of an complete novice, somebody who knows next to nothing about the NFL, maybe only knowing the names of Brady and Manning. Do you think they can put together a team with a reasonable chance of doing well using the pre-set values, assuming they have a basic competency in math and decent reading skills?
No. If they had this for Euro soccer (they probably do), I know maybe the 5 top name players, and I'm sure I would suck at it simply going off the salaries. If we went head to head every weekend, you probably would beat me 9 times out of 10.

Now I'm not saying this is chess. And it's not flipping a coin. It's something in between obviously.
Old 10-08-15, 08:11 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
No. If they had this for Euro soccer (they probably do), I know maybe the 5 top name players, and I'm sure I would suck at it simply going off the salaries. If we went head to head every weekend, you probably would beat me 9 times out of 10.

Now I'm not saying this is chess. And it's not flipping a coin. It's something in between obviously.
Putting aside for a moment why I think the NFL and Euro soccer aren't good comparisons, (lack of scoring primarily), I disagree. It would be closer than you suppose. And the more people involved, the truer that would be.

It is a simply true that when individuals have essentially identical access to information in games of chance, less skill is involved in their choices.

Please note how I said, "less skill". I don't mean to say there is no skill, but rather that the weekly and objective setting of player values necessarily means it is a game of more luck.

I also think you and Goat are both arguing about the margins, which is another strike against the daily sites. For the overwhelming majority of participants it is a game of chance with a little skill involved, but for a small few who invest far more time, effort, and most notably money in the form of more entries, it becomes a more "skilled" endeavour.

By the way, the numbers released in the wake of the "scandal" bear this out, as does the fact that those armed with extra information unavailable to all the other entrants win more than would otherwise be expected.

Lastly, wanted to point out that I am in no way saying these games should be banned. Rather, online poker sure as hell should be again made legal.
Old 10-08-15, 08:31 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

I think you're thinking of the tourney style. DFS offers head to head (or tourneys of varying degree -- I've tried 5-person ones, where top 3 pay). That's what I was speaking to. In a massive tourney, sure, I could blindly throw up a offering of Euro soccer games, but I think I'll surely lose to those with multiple entries. That's basically lottery.

I tend to think the massive tourneys are a massive donation by folks who throw in for $25 and the bots enter in so many multiple entries to kill them.

I don't enter those.
Old 10-08-15, 08:35 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
I think you're thinking of the tourney style. DFS offers head to head (or tourneys of varying degree -- I've tried 5-person ones, where top 3 pay). That's what I was speaking to. In a massive tourney, sure, I could blindly throw up a offering of Euro soccer games, but I think I'll surely lose to those with multiple entries. That's basically lottery.

I tend to think the massive tourneys are a massive donation by folks who throw in for $25 and the bots enter in so many multiple entries to kill them.

I don't enter those.
Since I obviously don't participate, are the head to heads only between two people?


And yes, I was primarily referencing tourneys, though not exclusively massive one.
Old 10-08-15, 08:47 PM
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Re: Do you play daily fantasy sports?

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
Since I obviously don't participate, are the head to heads only between two people?


And yes, I was primarily referencing tourneys, though not exclusively massive one.
There's multiple options. The basic Fanduel layout is:

1. H2H
2. 3 way
3. 4-10 players (for varying payouts; I've done 5 player where the top-3 pay)
4. Massive tourneys for varying prizes.
5. 50/50s (I might have this wrong) - you play someone head to head for half your stake and the other half goes into a tourney pot.

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