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MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

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MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Old 10-27-13, 09:12 AM
  #176  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

I don't know, I'm not saying it was obviously the wrong call, but I think Middlebrooks saying that he wasn't in the base path is not that ridiculous. On the other hand, If this play wasn't called, you'd definitely have a good argument from St. Louis that it was obstruction. Tough call for the umps.

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Old 10-27-13, 09:45 AM
  #177  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

That picture is deceiving. Watch video from any angle and it is clear that he was blocking the basepath, not to mention his awkward leg raise was an absolutely questionable method of attempting to clear a path for the runner.
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Old 10-27-13, 09:51 AM
  #178  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

The video is very clear. After Craig touches third and the throw goes by, he doesn't run the shortest distance, from third to home. He takes a step towards the pitcher's mound and then runs toward home. Middlebrooks clearly obstructed the path that Craig took---but that path wasn't a straight line from third base to home.

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Old 10-27-13, 10:05 AM
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

He took that route because he popped up from the slide and quickly faced into the diamond, not knowing yet that it was a passed ball. When he saw the ball he pivoted on the bag with his right foot but had to take a step and push off with his left foot, tripped over Middlebrooks then ran straight home. There is nothing wrong with this.
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Old 10-27-13, 10:38 AM
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

from several hours ago:


Thomas Boswell ‏@ThomasBoswellWP 5m
Buchholz sounds like he doesn't want to pitch Game 4. Never heard that before. His shoulder or something must feel very bad.


Any more on this?
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Old 10-27-13, 10:59 AM
  #181  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Originally Posted by KingSmoth View Post
He took that route because he popped up from the slide and quickly faced into the diamond, not knowing yet that it was a passed ball. When he saw the ball he pivoted on the bag with his right foot but had to take a step and push off with his left foot, tripped over Middlebrooks then ran straight home. There is nothing wrong with this.
I agree that's what happened, and I'm not saying he did anything wrong. I'm just saying it's not that clear-cut a call. Middlebrooks was indeed obstructing the path that Craig took, but that path wasn't directly from third to home.
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Old 10-27-13, 11:30 AM
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

What exactly is a direct path from third to home though? If a runner is standing on third and the ball is put into play, he is going to run straight to home along the line, only altering course to avoid a play at the plate. If he is running straight through from second base he is going to round wide out from the baseline to head home. In this instance, from the direction he was facing after a routine slide and turn, he ended up inside the baseline but not by any considerable measure, then ran straight to home. There really is no clearly-defined "direct path to home", it is more or less established by the runner on the play (If someone knows the exact ruling on this, that would be great)
Just as Middlebrooks didn't have much of an option to avoid being an obstruction (regardless of lifting his legs or not), Craig didn't have another option on his "direct path to home". If Middlebrooks lays flat on the ground, Craig still trips over his legs because Middlebrooks' feet reached the baseline. Craig then has to take an "indirect path to home" by turning in the opposite direction, running around his legs or stepping over them, then running home. Obstruction.
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Old 10-27-13, 12:33 PM
  #183  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Originally Posted by KingSmoth View Post
What exactly is a direct path from third to home though? If a runner is standing on third and the ball is put into play, he is going to run straight to home along the line, only altering course to avoid a play at the plate. If he is running straight through from second base he is going to round wide out from the baseline to head home. In this instance, from the direction he was facing after a routine slide and turn, he ended up inside the baseline but not by any considerable measure, then ran straight to home. There really is no clearly-defined "direct path to home", it is more or less established by the runner on the play (If someone knows the exact ruling on this, that would be great)
Just as Middlebrooks didn't have much of an option to avoid being an obstruction (regardless of lifting his legs or not), Craig didn't have another option on his "direct path to home". If Middlebrooks lays flat on the ground, Craig still trips over his legs because Middlebrooks' feet reached the baseline. Craig then has to take an "indirect path to home" by turning in the opposite direction, running around his legs or stepping over them, then running home. Obstruction.

When you're running around the bases, and rounding third, yes, physics require that you have to go on a more round route from third to home. Craig had already stopped at third though----I'm not sure I quite buy the argument that it would have been MORE difficult for him to have simply run in a straight line from third to home, where Middlebrooks was not obstructing, as opposed to doing what he did. . Your points are good though, and I'm not saying the wrong call was definitely made--just that it was questionable.

And for my point that Craig didn't need to run inside like that, I give you another Salty throwing error



And a feet-first one:


Last edited by Ky-Fi; 10-27-13 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 10-27-13, 12:43 PM
  #184  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

We get that you are a Sox fan Ky-Fi but it was clear that Middlebrooks got in Craig's way regardless of how Craig tried to get to home. I have never seen a player slide into third and then get up and head home by rounding third base. It just does not happen that way. Put all of the blame on Salt for throwing it away. Just earlier in the game the announcers said that he was the worst catcher in the AL (entire MLB?) at throwing out runners on the bases.
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Old 10-27-13, 12:51 PM
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
When you're running around the bases, and rounding third, yes, physics require that you have to go on a more round route from third to home. Craig had already stopped at third though----I'm not sure I quite buy the argument that it would have been MORE difficult for him to have simply run in a straight line from third to home, where Middlebrooks was not obstructing, as opposed to doing what he did. . Your points are good though, and I'm not saying the wrong call was definitely made--just that it was questionable.

And for my point that Craig didn't need to run inside like that, I give you another Salty throwing error
I can understand the different viewpoints and interpretations of the play and ruling. However, the difference between what happened last night and both of the videos that you referenced is that in both, the runner slid into and beyond third base and the baseline, while Craig stopped at the bag and inside the baseline. As well, neither runner had an obstruction in their path to home. The unfortunate commonality is Salty's bad arm.
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Old 10-27-13, 12:56 PM
  #186  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Originally Posted by dsa_shea View Post
We get that you are a Sox fan Ky-Fi but it was clear that Middlebrooks got in Craig's way regardless of how Craig tried to get to home. I have never seen a player slide into third and then get up and head home by rounding third base. It just does not happen that way. Put all of the blame on Salt for throwing it away. Just earlier in the game the announcers said that he was the worst catcher in the AL (entire MLB?) at throwing out runners on the bases.
No question Salty should not have thrown that ball. And, no question that Middlebrooks was in Craig's way. My point is that Craig chose (intentionally or not) to take the path that had Middlebrooks in his way, and that wasn't his shortest route to home. And I posted clips to show that runners don't need to take the route Craig did. And here's another---if Craig had done what Molina did, he wouldn't have run into Middlebrooks:


If Molina had changed his path and run into the third baseman (who is pretty much exactly where Middlebrooks was), should he have been awarded home?

Last edited by Ky-Fi; 10-27-13 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 10-27-13, 01:03 PM
  #187  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

That is a much closer scenario, but the third baseman is already standing up and out of the running line when Molina leaves the base. Last night's play was pretty much unique.
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Old 10-27-13, 01:05 PM
  #188  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Originally Posted by KingSmoth View Post
That is a much closer scenario, but the third baseman is already standing up and out of the running line when Molina leaves the base. Last night's play was pretty much unique.
It was pretty unique, and I think any call the umps made would have been controversial.
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Old 10-27-13, 01:12 PM
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Absolutely, compounded by the World Series stakes. I fully believe they made the correct call though.
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Old 10-27-13, 01:27 PM
  #190  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

I just think there has to be some onus on the runner to avoid contact, so that he can't just run into the third baseman wherever he is on that play and draw an obstruction call.

But I will not harp further on this call, at least until the Sox have lost the series.
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Old 10-27-13, 01:55 PM
  #191  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

It looked like the runner was heading back to second base. Plus-does anyone know if the runner touched home plate after being awarded the base after the interference?
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Old 10-27-13, 05:38 PM
  #192  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Salty and Koz are both out of their respective starting lineups this evening.
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Old 10-27-13, 06:45 PM
  #193  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Miguel Cabrera is a great player but he needs to improve his English if he is going to do interviews in English. I just watched his interview about the award he just won and half of his sentences made sense and the other half left me scratching my head. No disrespect to him as a man or a player.
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Old 10-27-13, 08:09 PM
  #194  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Beltran with the RBI as the Cards score first, capitalizing on another Red Sox error.
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Old 10-27-13, 08:36 PM
  #195  
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

You better make great defensive plays, Drew, you no-hitting bastard.
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Old 10-27-13, 08:39 PM
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Runner looked like he was one step toward second base--not a rousing argument for his not taking a direct route to home.
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Old 10-27-13, 08:57 PM
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Lynn labors through the 5th, giving up a run to tie it.

Battle of the bullpens about to start.
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Old 10-27-13, 09:02 PM
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

Not even close to Carpenter for strike three.
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Old 10-27-13, 09:07 PM
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

This ump has decided to start calling pitches out on both sides of the plate. Ugh!
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Old 10-27-13, 09:13 PM
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Re: MLB 2013 Playoffs, World Series Edition - Cardinals vs. Red Sox

At the risk of sounding insensitive, wouldn't it work better to do the "Stand Up for Cancer" promo before the game and not have a delay in the 6th inning?
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