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WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Old 08-01-10, 01:10 PM
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WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

August sees TNA running their ECW-themed ppv Hardcore Justice on August 8th.

WWE has their 23rd annual SummerSlam event on August 15th from the Staples Center in Los Angeles.
Old 08-01-10, 03:46 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Beulah McGillicutty's mom passed away...

Tommy Dreamer has just tweeted the following:

"I can't thank everyone for their thoughts & prayers. Beulah's mom passed away. Why we must always celebrate life. I love you all."
Old 08-01-10, 09:37 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Shawn Michaels started tweeting yesterday and has made 62 posts already

http://twitter.com/shawnmichaels_
Old 08-02-10, 04:48 AM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Hahaha, someone's a little tweet happy.
Old 08-02-10, 04:56 AM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

ummmmm, ok
Old 08-02-10, 12:19 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Just posted on twitter from Dixie Carter.

Just spoke to Dreamer. SABU is confirmed for HardCORE Justice this Sunday.
Old 08-02-10, 12:23 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

that moron Santino is also on twitter now. Saw his 1st post. He thinks he is Super Mario or something.

I was thinking of signing up to tell him how much he sucks but I cant be bothered.
Old 08-02-10, 03:59 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Sabu will be fun to see again.

I'm wondering if TNA will put up the dough to let Sandman use "Enter Sandman" for his entrance music.
Old 08-02-10, 06:42 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

I saw this on twitter this afternoon. It's pretty long article so I will put spoiler tags on it.



Spoiler:
To Be Determined – ECW should die, TNA is a Leech and Tommy Dreamer is a Sellout
By Raffi Shamir - August 2, 2010.

TNA will present its wecannotcalitecwsowehopethefanswillchantev2 tribute Pay Per View event, Hard(core) Justice. Now, my love/hate relationship with TNA has been well documented here in the past, but with this concept, I think that TNA has hit a new low.

My main beef with this is the whole idea of reviving ECW in the first place. I know that I’m in the minority here, and I’ll probably earn some hateful comments from the ECW diehards, but it’s time to let the corpse of this huge failure known as ECW rot in peace. The only thing that ECW had going for itself back in the nineties was a tribe of diehard vocal fans that gave ECW an image that was much bigger and better than the promotion ever was. Sure, ECW fans love to throw out names like Benoit, Jericho and Guerrero when talking about ECW, but they were never the focus of ECW. The true wrestling legacy of ECW is a bunch of garbage matches and too much blood. But ECW knew how to market itself as the bad boy rebel (Despite being secretly funded by Vince McMahon for years) to the internet wrestling community, which was only emerging in this period, and thus became a popular cult phenomenon. Just don’t forget that one of the prerequisites for something to become a cult phenomenon is that it has to fail first.

And ECW was a failure. I’ve heard some people say that “ECW failed because it was too good for the masses”, and to that I say bulls**t. Yes, good quality products do fail sometimes, and crappy things succeed. It’s the same in many fields – music, film, literature, you name it. But nothing ever fails because it’s good. Things fail due to bad management (And everyone knows ECW had tons of that), bad marketing, bad human relations and there are tons of other reasons. The fact of the matter is ECW could never reach a real audience other than its internet fan base. They had a few local TV deals (Which they had to pay for) but when they finally got a national cable deal with TNN, they could not deliver the goods. Granted, the timeslot was crappy and the network (real one, not the one that Don Callis represent) didn’t seem to believe in ECW, but ECW earned that treatment by trying to antagonize the suits as much as they could. That’s smart management; turn on the only broadcaster that actually paid money for your product.

I can go on and on about the undead ECW, but enough about them. I’m pretty sure its fans already wrote me and this column off 400 words ago. When TNA announced the Pay Per View, the face and speaker of the this group was Tommy Dreamer. Dreamer is widely considered the heart and soul of the original ECW and this might be true. But watching his promo 10 days ago made me sick. I still remember hundreds of ECW fans chanting “sellout” at wrestlers who left the company in the late nineties, but you know what? Tommy Dreamer is the biggest sellout of them all. He talked about the ECW name being bastardized and seeing his friends fired, and how he only stayed with WWE because he wanted the job security. Yes, he had to provide for his family and I can’t fault him for that, but the way he washed his hands off of everything that happens? Dreamer wasn’t just a wrestler in WWE, we kept reading about him working backstage in one capacity or the other. And when he left he got a heroes’ farewell. He finally had a real run as champion, even if this was the “bastardized” ECW championship and he was featured as one of the top faces of this brand. If it wasn’t for WWE, Dreamer would have never known what it’s like to wrestle in front of real, major sold-out arenas and he would have never received the farewell that he did. In his professional relationship with Vince McMahon both sides benefited and WWE showed Dreamer the respect that he’s earned in his years in the business. And let’s not forget that Vince McMahon actually paid Dreamer’s paycheck in the original ECW also, since if it wasn’t for him pumping money to ECW and keeping it on life support, ECW would have folded long before it did. But watching him shed those crocodile tears on Impact and encourage the guy who yelled “Vince Sucks” was just low. No one forced him to work for Vince; other wrestlers did find satisfying jobs wither in the business or outside of it. Hell, Dreamer is so old that TNA would have jumped at the opportunity to sign him and make him a main-eventer. And truth be told, if Vince hadn’t fired his ass, Dreamer would still be kissing up to him today. So excuse me if I don’t cry with Dreamer.

And just another side note about the so called “bastardization” of ECW by WWE. I think that having the EV2 (yes, that’s the name) guys show Hulk Hogan tremendous respect, with Devon even doing the gesture universally known as “We’re not worthy” is a bigger travesty to what ECW allegedly stood for. The original ECW positioned itself as the antithesis to everything that Hulk Hogan represented. But now in TNA they look up to him and Dreamer even asked Hogan for his permission to fight Abyss (Or for that matter, asking any authority figure for permission to fight someone)? That’s how you bastardize ECW, not by putting Mark Henry on it.

And then there’s TNA, the company that never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. For eight years TNA has been trying to leech off the glory of other promotions. When they first started they were a poor man’s version of WCW. Then they started getting some big name wrestlers from WWE and used them to try and portray the promotion as an equal to WWE. Don’t get me wrong, if I ran a wrestling promotion and people like Christian or Kurt Angle were available I’d sign them in a heartbeat, it would have been foolish not to do so. But having them go out and trash WWE was bush league. TNA did not look like an equal or even a close second place to WWE. They looked like a minor league organization that clings to the name of the leading promotion in order to catch some of its residual heat. TNA never realized that by focusing their energy on its so called war with WWE (A war that WWE was and is wise enough not to acknowledge or tape part in), they diluted their own brand. They never tried to build themselves as TNA Wrestling and succeed on their own; they were nothing more than “the other wrestling promotion that isn’t WWE”. They repeated that same mistake with the pathetic promos that Hulk Hogan cut early this year.

But now they have taken things a step further. They actually put the TNA brand on the back burner in order to leech off whatever value the ECW brand might still have. TNA already draws a lot more viewers than ECW ever did to its weekly shows (In actual numbers, not in rating points) so they’re catering to the fringe of the wrestling world in a move that will probably will not bring any benefit to TNa in the long run. Don’t compare it to One Night Stand in 2005 – that Pay Per View did not come at the expense of any of WWE’s traditional events and the WWE brand was a big part of it, even during the confrontation between JBL and Paul Heyman. Most of the wrestlers in that event were with WWE for many years that they were already identified with WWE. In that context, their participation at ONS, actually helped the WWE brand and its wrestlers. Here TNA is putting the spotlight on wrestlers that are either coming in for a one-off paycheck or guys that are identified with other promotions. Dreamer’s promo even went a step further towards hurting TNA by mentioning that whatever TNA is doing today, ECW already did in the past. It would have been one thing if he said that TNA wrestlers are the successors or the new generation of the ECW veterans. Instead he said “Long Before Samoa Joe, there was Taz”, and the same about the Beautiful People and Beulah/Francine. It’s like saying that the TNA stars are knockoffs of ECW people. He then went on to say that TNA is like ECW in the sense that this is where stars are made and veterans came to help create new stars. If that were true, then how come only four of the TNA champions since 2002 are TNA originals and the others were people who made their name in other promotions? It’s another example of TNA leeching off others – they have one of the most talented roster that any wrestling promotion ever had, yet they keep putting over the people from other promotions! How is that helping TNA? How does that help drive the TNA brand into people’s minds?

TNA can and should succeed. TNA has all the elements it needs in order to do that. I love most of the TNA wrestlers, Impact has been mostlly very good the past two months, but I hate the ECW revival. TNA lacks the most important ingredient in order to succeed – confidence in itself and its wrestlers. As long as TNA will show no faith in its own brand, the wider audience outside the Impact Zone will never do that. You can change things TNA, just believe in yourself.
Old 08-02-10, 07:23 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Originally Posted by Sonny Corinthos View Post
I saw this on twitter this afternoon. It's pretty long article so I will put spoiler tags on it.



Spoiler:
To Be Determined – ECW should die, TNA is a Leech and Tommy Dreamer is a Sellout
By Raffi Shamir - August 2, 2010.

TNA will present its wecannotcalitecwsowehopethefanswillchantev2 tribute Pay Per View event, Hard(core) Justice. Now, my love/hate relationship with TNA has been well documented here in the past, but with this concept, I think that TNA has hit a new low.

My main beef with this is the whole idea of reviving ECW in the first place. I know that I’m in the minority here, and I’ll probably earn some hateful comments from the ECW diehards, but it’s time to let the corpse of this huge failure known as ECW rot in peace. The only thing that ECW had going for itself back in the nineties was a tribe of diehard vocal fans that gave ECW an image that was much bigger and better than the promotion ever was. Sure, ECW fans love to throw out names like Benoit, Jericho and Guerrero when talking about ECW, but they were never the focus of ECW. The true wrestling legacy of ECW is a bunch of garbage matches and too much blood. But ECW knew how to market itself as the bad boy rebel (Despite being secretly funded by Vince McMahon for years) to the internet wrestling community, which was only emerging in this period, and thus became a popular cult phenomenon. Just don’t forget that one of the prerequisites for something to become a cult phenomenon is that it has to fail first.

And ECW was a failure. I’ve heard some people say that “ECW failed because it was too good for the masses”, and to that I say bulls**t. Yes, good quality products do fail sometimes, and crappy things succeed. It’s the same in many fields – music, film, literature, you name it. But nothing ever fails because it’s good. Things fail due to bad management (And everyone knows ECW had tons of that), bad marketing, bad human relations and there are tons of other reasons. The fact of the matter is ECW could never reach a real audience other than its internet fan base. They had a few local TV deals (Which they had to pay for) but when they finally got a national cable deal with TNN, they could not deliver the goods. Granted, the timeslot was crappy and the network (real one, not the one that Don Callis represent) didn’t seem to believe in ECW, but ECW earned that treatment by trying to antagonize the suits as much as they could. That’s smart management; turn on the only broadcaster that actually paid money for your product.

I can go on and on about the undead ECW, but enough about them. I’m pretty sure its fans already wrote me and this column off 400 words ago. When TNA announced the Pay Per View, the face and speaker of the this group was Tommy Dreamer. Dreamer is widely considered the heart and soul of the original ECW and this might be true. But watching his promo 10 days ago made me sick. I still remember hundreds of ECW fans chanting “sellout” at wrestlers who left the company in the late nineties, but you know what? Tommy Dreamer is the biggest sellout of them all. He talked about the ECW name being bastardized and seeing his friends fired, and how he only stayed with WWE because he wanted the job security. Yes, he had to provide for his family and I can’t fault him for that, but the way he washed his hands off of everything that happens? Dreamer wasn’t just a wrestler in WWE, we kept reading about him working backstage in one capacity or the other. And when he left he got a heroes’ farewell. He finally had a real run as champion, even if this was the “bastardized” ECW championship and he was featured as one of the top faces of this brand. If it wasn’t for WWE, Dreamer would have never known what it’s like to wrestle in front of real, major sold-out arenas and he would have never received the farewell that he did. In his professional relationship with Vince McMahon both sides benefited and WWE showed Dreamer the respect that he’s earned in his years in the business. And let’s not forget that Vince McMahon actually paid Dreamer’s paycheck in the original ECW also, since if it wasn’t for him pumping money to ECW and keeping it on life support, ECW would have folded long before it did. But watching him shed those crocodile tears on Impact and encourage the guy who yelled “Vince Sucks” was just low. No one forced him to work for Vince; other wrestlers did find satisfying jobs wither in the business or outside of it. Hell, Dreamer is so old that TNA would have jumped at the opportunity to sign him and make him a main-eventer. And truth be told, if Vince hadn’t fired his ass, Dreamer would still be kissing up to him today. So excuse me if I don’t cry with Dreamer.

And just another side note about the so called “bastardization” of ECW by WWE. I think that having the EV2 (yes, that’s the name) guys show Hulk Hogan tremendous respect, with Devon even doing the gesture universally known as “We’re not worthy” is a bigger travesty to what ECW allegedly stood for. The original ECW positioned itself as the antithesis to everything that Hulk Hogan represented. But now in TNA they look up to him and Dreamer even asked Hogan for his permission to fight Abyss (Or for that matter, asking any authority figure for permission to fight someone)? That’s how you bastardize ECW, not by putting Mark Henry on it.

And then there’s TNA, the company that never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. For eight years TNA has been trying to leech off the glory of other promotions. When they first started they were a poor man’s version of WCW. Then they started getting some big name wrestlers from WWE and used them to try and portray the promotion as an equal to WWE. Don’t get me wrong, if I ran a wrestling promotion and people like Christian or Kurt Angle were available I’d sign them in a heartbeat, it would have been foolish not to do so. But having them go out and trash WWE was bush league. TNA did not look like an equal or even a close second place to WWE. They looked like a minor league organization that clings to the name of the leading promotion in order to catch some of its residual heat. TNA never realized that by focusing their energy on its so called war with WWE (A war that WWE was and is wise enough not to acknowledge or tape part in), they diluted their own brand. They never tried to build themselves as TNA Wrestling and succeed on their own; they were nothing more than “the other wrestling promotion that isn’t WWE”. They repeated that same mistake with the pathetic promos that Hulk Hogan cut early this year.

But now they have taken things a step further. They actually put the TNA brand on the back burner in order to leech off whatever value the ECW brand might still have. TNA already draws a lot more viewers than ECW ever did to its weekly shows (In actual numbers, not in rating points) so they’re catering to the fringe of the wrestling world in a move that will probably will not bring any benefit to TNa in the long run. Don’t compare it to One Night Stand in 2005 – that Pay Per View did not come at the expense of any of WWE’s traditional events and the WWE brand was a big part of it, even during the confrontation between JBL and Paul Heyman. Most of the wrestlers in that event were with WWE for many years that they were already identified with WWE. In that context, their participation at ONS, actually helped the WWE brand and its wrestlers. Here TNA is putting the spotlight on wrestlers that are either coming in for a one-off paycheck or guys that are identified with other promotions. Dreamer’s promo even went a step further towards hurting TNA by mentioning that whatever TNA is doing today, ECW already did in the past. It would have been one thing if he said that TNA wrestlers are the successors or the new generation of the ECW veterans. Instead he said “Long Before Samoa Joe, there was Taz”, and the same about the Beautiful People and Beulah/Francine. It’s like saying that the TNA stars are knockoffs of ECW people. He then went on to say that TNA is like ECW in the sense that this is where stars are made and veterans came to help create new stars. If that were true, then how come only four of the TNA champions since 2002 are TNA originals and the others were people who made their name in other promotions? It’s another example of TNA leeching off others – they have one of the most talented roster that any wrestling promotion ever had, yet they keep putting over the people from other promotions! How is that helping TNA? How does that help drive the TNA brand into people’s minds?

TNA can and should succeed. TNA has all the elements it needs in order to do that. I love most of the TNA wrestlers, Impact has been mostlly very good the past two months, but I hate the ECW revival. TNA lacks the most important ingredient in order to succeed – confidence in itself and its wrestlers. As long as TNA will show no faith in its own brand, the wider audience outside the Impact Zone will never do that. You can change things TNA, just believe in yourself.
That's pretty spot on.
Old 08-02-10, 08:46 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Raw is getting to the point where I can't justify watching anymore. It's just too dang predictable and watered down. The return of Melina really didn't excite me as the Divas brand has been buried and cheapened so much over the years.

Guess I need to listen to those on here who claim that WWE is not for hardcore fans anymore, even those that followed it religiously in the Attitude era.
Old 08-02-10, 08:51 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

^couldnt agree more. I forced myself to tune in tonight. This may be my last night for a long time.
Old 08-02-10, 08:55 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Why the shit is the Champion in a feud with Goldust?
Old 08-02-10, 08:56 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

They arent feuding. They had a feud last year.
Old 08-02-10, 09:03 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Originally Posted by LickTheABCs View Post
Why the shit is the Champion in a feud with Goldust?
I turned off the TV after I saw this was the case. I have to give WWE this, they have devalued their title belts about as bad as WCW did in its dying days. I remember when WWE made sure the champion was the focal point of the promotion, whether they were heel or face. If they were face, they made everyone love them. If they were a heel, they had everyone wanting to see them get taken down. Now the champ is a mid-card deal against someone no one really cares about anymore. Being the champ used to mean you WERE the main event, not a lead up to it. It just seems like nothing means anything anymore.

Oh, and while I cannot shill too much for TNA (that post above was harsh, but true), they're Knockouts look much better than the Divas IMO (except for Eve )
Old 08-02-10, 09:23 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

ROH on HDNET tonight announced

Charlie Hass and Shleton Benjamin vs. Kings of Wrestling Sept 11 at Glory By Honor.

Cant wait.
Old 08-02-10, 09:33 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Originally Posted by Deadman31 View Post
ROH on HDNET tonight announced

Charlie Hass and Shleton Benjamin vs. Kings of Wrestling Sept 11 at Glory By Honor.

Cant wait.
That should be an amazing match!

I'm not even bothering watching raw/smackdown this week. I read the spoilers, no reason to watch the crap this week.
Old 08-02-10, 09:39 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Someone remind me again, how is losing again on Raw, this time to Khali, making Ted Dibiase a major player in the WWE?
Old 08-02-10, 09:45 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Are you fucking kidding me? When did WWE became Access Hollywood? Why the fuck are they pushing The Other Guys? Is not like The Rock, who at least has a connection with WWE, is participating in that skit.
Old 08-02-10, 10:02 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Originally Posted by Deadman31 View Post
ROH on HDNET tonight announced

Charlie Hass and Shleton Benjamin vs. Kings of Wrestling Sept 11 at Glory By Honor.

Cant wait.
same. Also its gonna be on IPPV too, so I'll get to see it live
Old 08-02-10, 10:58 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

By the way, those Summer Fest recaps show how much WWE is missing the boat right now by shitting on their titles. The excellent Hart/Perfect match was for the Intercontinental title!
Old 08-02-10, 11:10 PM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Did anyone notice that TNA is calling there big Thursday shoulda been PPV show The Whole F*N Show!
Old 08-03-10, 05:30 AM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Originally Posted by dx23 View Post
By the way, those Summer Fest recaps show how much WWE is missing the boat right now by shitting on their titles. The excellent Hart/Perfect match was for the Intercontinental title!
The importance of the minor titles is a little better now than it has been recently, but you're right, Hart winning the IC title from Perfect actually meant something.
Old 08-03-10, 06:55 AM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Originally Posted by Sonny Corinthos View Post
I saw this on twitter this afternoon. It's pretty long article so I will put spoiler tags on it.



Spoiler:
To Be Determined – ECW should die, TNA is a Leech and Tommy Dreamer is a Sellout
By Raffi Shamir - August 2, 2010.

TNA will present its wecannotcalitecwsowehopethefanswillchantev2 tribute Pay Per View event, Hard(core) Justice. Now, my love/hate relationship with TNA has been well documented here in the past, but with this concept, I think that TNA has hit a new low.

My main beef with this is the whole idea of reviving ECW in the first place. I know that I’m in the minority here, and I’ll probably earn some hateful comments from the ECW diehards, but it’s time to let the corpse of this huge failure known as ECW rot in peace. The only thing that ECW had going for itself back in the nineties was a tribe of diehard vocal fans that gave ECW an image that was much bigger and better than the promotion ever was. Sure, ECW fans love to throw out names like Benoit, Jericho and Guerrero when talking about ECW, but they were never the focus of ECW. The true wrestling legacy of ECW is a bunch of garbage matches and too much blood. But ECW knew how to market itself as the bad boy rebel (Despite being secretly funded by Vince McMahon for years) to the internet wrestling community, which was only emerging in this period, and thus became a popular cult phenomenon. Just don’t forget that one of the prerequisites for something to become a cult phenomenon is that it has to fail first.

And ECW was a failure. I’ve heard some people say that “ECW failed because it was too good for the masses”, and to that I say bulls**t. Yes, good quality products do fail sometimes, and crappy things succeed. It’s the same in many fields – music, film, literature, you name it. But nothing ever fails because it’s good. Things fail due to bad management (And everyone knows ECW had tons of that), bad marketing, bad human relations and there are tons of other reasons. The fact of the matter is ECW could never reach a real audience other than its internet fan base. They had a few local TV deals (Which they had to pay for) but when they finally got a national cable deal with TNN, they could not deliver the goods. Granted, the timeslot was crappy and the network (real one, not the one that Don Callis represent) didn’t seem to believe in ECW, but ECW earned that treatment by trying to antagonize the suits as much as they could. That’s smart management; turn on the only broadcaster that actually paid money for your product.

I can go on and on about the undead ECW, but enough about them. I’m pretty sure its fans already wrote me and this column off 400 words ago. When TNA announced the Pay Per View, the face and speaker of the this group was Tommy Dreamer. Dreamer is widely considered the heart and soul of the original ECW and this might be true. But watching his promo 10 days ago made me sick. I still remember hundreds of ECW fans chanting “sellout” at wrestlers who left the company in the late nineties, but you know what? Tommy Dreamer is the biggest sellout of them all. He talked about the ECW name being bastardized and seeing his friends fired, and how he only stayed with WWE because he wanted the job security. Yes, he had to provide for his family and I can’t fault him for that, but the way he washed his hands off of everything that happens? Dreamer wasn’t just a wrestler in WWE, we kept reading about him working backstage in one capacity or the other. And when he left he got a heroes’ farewell. He finally had a real run as champion, even if this was the “bastardized” ECW championship and he was featured as one of the top faces of this brand. If it wasn’t for WWE, Dreamer would have never known what it’s like to wrestle in front of real, major sold-out arenas and he would have never received the farewell that he did. In his professional relationship with Vince McMahon both sides benefited and WWE showed Dreamer the respect that he’s earned in his years in the business. And let’s not forget that Vince McMahon actually paid Dreamer’s paycheck in the original ECW also, since if it wasn’t for him pumping money to ECW and keeping it on life support, ECW would have folded long before it did. But watching him shed those crocodile tears on Impact and encourage the guy who yelled “Vince Sucks” was just low. No one forced him to work for Vince; other wrestlers did find satisfying jobs wither in the business or outside of it. Hell, Dreamer is so old that TNA would have jumped at the opportunity to sign him and make him a main-eventer. And truth be told, if Vince hadn’t fired his ass, Dreamer would still be kissing up to him today. So excuse me if I don’t cry with Dreamer.

And just another side note about the so called “bastardization” of ECW by WWE. I think that having the EV2 (yes, that’s the name) guys show Hulk Hogan tremendous respect, with Devon even doing the gesture universally known as “We’re not worthy” is a bigger travesty to what ECW allegedly stood for. The original ECW positioned itself as the antithesis to everything that Hulk Hogan represented. But now in TNA they look up to him and Dreamer even asked Hogan for his permission to fight Abyss (Or for that matter, asking any authority figure for permission to fight someone)? That’s how you bastardize ECW, not by putting Mark Henry on it.

And then there’s TNA, the company that never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. For eight years TNA has been trying to leech off the glory of other promotions. When they first started they were a poor man’s version of WCW. Then they started getting some big name wrestlers from WWE and used them to try and portray the promotion as an equal to WWE. Don’t get me wrong, if I ran a wrestling promotion and people like Christian or Kurt Angle were available I’d sign them in a heartbeat, it would have been foolish not to do so. But having them go out and trash WWE was bush league. TNA did not look like an equal or even a close second place to WWE. They looked like a minor league organization that clings to the name of the leading promotion in order to catch some of its residual heat. TNA never realized that by focusing their energy on its so called war with WWE (A war that WWE was and is wise enough not to acknowledge or tape part in), they diluted their own brand. They never tried to build themselves as TNA Wrestling and succeed on their own; they were nothing more than “the other wrestling promotion that isn’t WWE”. They repeated that same mistake with the pathetic promos that Hulk Hogan cut early this year.

But now they have taken things a step further. They actually put the TNA brand on the back burner in order to leech off whatever value the ECW brand might still have. TNA already draws a lot more viewers than ECW ever did to its weekly shows (In actual numbers, not in rating points) so they’re catering to the fringe of the wrestling world in a move that will probably will not bring any benefit to TNa in the long run. Don’t compare it to One Night Stand in 2005 – that Pay Per View did not come at the expense of any of WWE’s traditional events and the WWE brand was a big part of it, even during the confrontation between JBL and Paul Heyman. Most of the wrestlers in that event were with WWE for many years that they were already identified with WWE. In that context, their participation at ONS, actually helped the WWE brand and its wrestlers. Here TNA is putting the spotlight on wrestlers that are either coming in for a one-off paycheck or guys that are identified with other promotions. Dreamer’s promo even went a step further towards hurting TNA by mentioning that whatever TNA is doing today, ECW already did in the past. It would have been one thing if he said that TNA wrestlers are the successors or the new generation of the ECW veterans. Instead he said “Long Before Samoa Joe, there was Taz”, and the same about the Beautiful People and Beulah/Francine. It’s like saying that the TNA stars are knockoffs of ECW people. He then went on to say that TNA is like ECW in the sense that this is where stars are made and veterans came to help create new stars. If that were true, then how come only four of the TNA champions since 2002 are TNA originals and the others were people who made their name in other promotions? It’s another example of TNA leeching off others – they have one of the most talented roster that any wrestling promotion ever had, yet they keep putting over the people from other promotions! How is that helping TNA? How does that help drive the TNA brand into people’s minds?

TNA can and should succeed. TNA has all the elements it needs in order to do that. I love most of the TNA wrestlers, Impact has been mostlly very good the past two months, but I hate the ECW revival. TNA lacks the most important ingredient in order to succeed – confidence in itself and its wrestlers. As long as TNA will show no faith in its own brand, the wider audience outside the Impact Zone will never do that. You can change things TNA, just believe in yourself.
SUPER SPOT ON.... that is what everyone has been saying... kudos to this.
Old 08-03-10, 07:54 AM
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Re: WWE/TNA/ROH August Wrestling Thread: Hardcore Justice/ Summer Fest

Originally Posted by Sonny Corinthos View Post
I saw this on twitter this afternoon. It's pretty long article so I will put spoiler tags on it.



Spoiler:
To Be Determined – ECW should die, TNA is a Leech and Tommy Dreamer is a Sellout
By Raffi Shamir - August 2, 2010.

TNA will present its wecannotcalitecwsowehopethefanswillchantev2 tribute Pay Per View event, Hard(core) Justice. Now, my love/hate relationship with TNA has been well documented here in the past, but with this concept, I think that TNA has hit a new low.

My main beef with this is the whole idea of reviving ECW in the first place. I know that I’m in the minority here, and I’ll probably earn some hateful comments from the ECW diehards, but it’s time to let the corpse of this huge failure known as ECW rot in peace. The only thing that ECW had going for itself back in the nineties was a tribe of diehard vocal fans that gave ECW an image that was much bigger and better than the promotion ever was. Sure, ECW fans love to throw out names like Benoit, Jericho and Guerrero when talking about ECW, but they were never the focus of ECW. The true wrestling legacy of ECW is a bunch of garbage matches and too much blood. But ECW knew how to market itself as the bad boy rebel (Despite being secretly funded by Vince McMahon for years) to the internet wrestling community, which was only emerging in this period, and thus became a popular cult phenomenon. Just don’t forget that one of the prerequisites for something to become a cult phenomenon is that it has to fail first.

And ECW was a failure. I’ve heard some people say that “ECW failed because it was too good for the masses”, and to that I say bulls**t. Yes, good quality products do fail sometimes, and crappy things succeed. It’s the same in many fields – music, film, literature, you name it. But nothing ever fails because it’s good. Things fail due to bad management (And everyone knows ECW had tons of that), bad marketing, bad human relations and there are tons of other reasons. The fact of the matter is ECW could never reach a real audience other than its internet fan base. They had a few local TV deals (Which they had to pay for) but when they finally got a national cable deal with TNN, they could not deliver the goods. Granted, the timeslot was crappy and the network (real one, not the one that Don Callis represent) didn’t seem to believe in ECW, but ECW earned that treatment by trying to antagonize the suits as much as they could. That’s smart management; turn on the only broadcaster that actually paid money for your product.

I can go on and on about the undead ECW, but enough about them. I’m pretty sure its fans already wrote me and this column off 400 words ago. When TNA announced the Pay Per View, the face and speaker of the this group was Tommy Dreamer. Dreamer is widely considered the heart and soul of the original ECW and this might be true. But watching his promo 10 days ago made me sick. I still remember hundreds of ECW fans chanting “sellout” at wrestlers who left the company in the late nineties, but you know what? Tommy Dreamer is the biggest sellout of them all. He talked about the ECW name being bastardized and seeing his friends fired, and how he only stayed with WWE because he wanted the job security. Yes, he had to provide for his family and I can’t fault him for that, but the way he washed his hands off of everything that happens? Dreamer wasn’t just a wrestler in WWE, we kept reading about him working backstage in one capacity or the other. And when he left he got a heroes’ farewell. He finally had a real run as champion, even if this was the “bastardized” ECW championship and he was featured as one of the top faces of this brand. If it wasn’t for WWE, Dreamer would have never known what it’s like to wrestle in front of real, major sold-out arenas and he would have never received the farewell that he did. In his professional relationship with Vince McMahon both sides benefited and WWE showed Dreamer the respect that he’s earned in his years in the business. And let’s not forget that Vince McMahon actually paid Dreamer’s paycheck in the original ECW also, since if it wasn’t for him pumping money to ECW and keeping it on life support, ECW would have folded long before it did. But watching him shed those crocodile tears on Impact and encourage the guy who yelled “Vince Sucks” was just low. No one forced him to work for Vince; other wrestlers did find satisfying jobs wither in the business or outside of it. Hell, Dreamer is so old that TNA would have jumped at the opportunity to sign him and make him a main-eventer. And truth be told, if Vince hadn’t fired his ass, Dreamer would still be kissing up to him today. So excuse me if I don’t cry with Dreamer.

And just another side note about the so called “bastardization” of ECW by WWE. I think that having the EV2 (yes, that’s the name) guys show Hulk Hogan tremendous respect, with Devon even doing the gesture universally known as “We’re not worthy” is a bigger travesty to what ECW allegedly stood for. The original ECW positioned itself as the antithesis to everything that Hulk Hogan represented. But now in TNA they look up to him and Dreamer even asked Hogan for his permission to fight Abyss (Or for that matter, asking any authority figure for permission to fight someone)? That’s how you bastardize ECW, not by putting Mark Henry on it.

And then there’s TNA, the company that never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. For eight years TNA has been trying to leech off the glory of other promotions. When they first started they were a poor man’s version of WCW. Then they started getting some big name wrestlers from WWE and used them to try and portray the promotion as an equal to WWE. Don’t get me wrong, if I ran a wrestling promotion and people like Christian or Kurt Angle were available I’d sign them in a heartbeat, it would have been foolish not to do so. But having them go out and trash WWE was bush league. TNA did not look like an equal or even a close second place to WWE. They looked like a minor league organization that clings to the name of the leading promotion in order to catch some of its residual heat. TNA never realized that by focusing their energy on its so called war with WWE (A war that WWE was and is wise enough not to acknowledge or tape part in), they diluted their own brand. They never tried to build themselves as TNA Wrestling and succeed on their own; they were nothing more than “the other wrestling promotion that isn’t WWE”. They repeated that same mistake with the pathetic promos that Hulk Hogan cut early this year.

But now they have taken things a step further. They actually put the TNA brand on the back burner in order to leech off whatever value the ECW brand might still have. TNA already draws a lot more viewers than ECW ever did to its weekly shows (In actual numbers, not in rating points) so they’re catering to the fringe of the wrestling world in a move that will probably will not bring any benefit to TNa in the long run. Don’t compare it to One Night Stand in 2005 – that Pay Per View did not come at the expense of any of WWE’s traditional events and the WWE brand was a big part of it, even during the confrontation between JBL and Paul Heyman. Most of the wrestlers in that event were with WWE for many years that they were already identified with WWE. In that context, their participation at ONS, actually helped the WWE brand and its wrestlers. Here TNA is putting the spotlight on wrestlers that are either coming in for a one-off paycheck or guys that are identified with other promotions. Dreamer’s promo even went a step further towards hurting TNA by mentioning that whatever TNA is doing today, ECW already did in the past. It would have been one thing if he said that TNA wrestlers are the successors or the new generation of the ECW veterans. Instead he said “Long Before Samoa Joe, there was Taz”, and the same about the Beautiful People and Beulah/Francine. It’s like saying that the TNA stars are knockoffs of ECW people. He then went on to say that TNA is like ECW in the sense that this is where stars are made and veterans came to help create new stars. If that were true, then how come only four of the TNA champions since 2002 are TNA originals and the others were people who made their name in other promotions? It’s another example of TNA leeching off others – they have one of the most talented roster that any wrestling promotion ever had, yet they keep putting over the people from other promotions! How is that helping TNA? How does that help drive the TNA brand into people’s minds?

TNA can and should succeed. TNA has all the elements it needs in order to do that. I love most of the TNA wrestlers, Impact has been mostlly very good the past two months, but I hate the ECW revival. TNA lacks the most important ingredient in order to succeed – confidence in itself and its wrestlers. As long as TNA will show no faith in its own brand, the wider audience outside the Impact Zone will never do that. You can change things TNA, just believe in yourself.
I agree. Especially about Dreamer and the "bastardization" of ECW.

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