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Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Old 12-31-21, 09:29 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
Devin Hester is the greatest return man ever. Is that enough to get in the hall?
Not first ballot.
And I think Reggie Wayne before Torry Holt.
Old 01-12-22, 09:46 AM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Jon Lester retired. 200 wins, 3 rings. One of the better post season pitchers in recent memory. But never won a Cy Young (2nd and 2 4ths). Thoughts? We are starting to get to the point where the 300 game winner benchmark is now an obsolete metric. I would say he is a border line HoFer. I could see argument either way.
Old 01-12-22, 10:08 AM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

I agree Lester is borderline. Not a dominator, but a reputation for October, and heíll get credit like Theo for helping to end two famous curses. His signing with the Cubs is probably the key move that triggered the Cubs from being a promising team with prospects to a serious contender. I think that will push him over the top.

Iíd love to see Hester eventually get in. Teams would gameplan around him because of fear.
Old 01-12-22, 10:20 AM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Statistically, Lester doesn't seem to have the numbers, but he helped break the 2 biggest sport curses, so that will endear him with voters. I think he may get in after several years in the ballot, on a weak year of voting.
Old 01-12-22, 11:09 AM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

I’ll correct myself and say Lester won two WS with the Sox but not the curse-breaking one, so he doesn’t get full credit like Theo does, but that’s still no slouch.
Old 01-12-22, 11:17 AM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

I think Andy Pettite has a significantly better Hall resume than Jon Lester, and he's not in.
WAR 60.2 vs 44.5, 256 W vs 200, ERA 3.85 vs 3.66, IP 3316 vs 2740, SO 2448 vs 2488. Most importantly 5 WS vs 3 WS.
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Old 01-12-22, 11:39 AM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
I think Andy Pettite has a significantly better Hall resume than Jon Lester, and he's not in.
WAR 60.2 vs 44.5, 256 W vs 200, ERA 3.85 vs 3.66, IP 3316 vs 2740, SO 2448 vs 2488. Most importantly 5 WS vs 3 WS.
My question would be this - do either of them deserve to get in when compared to Hall of Famers from the past? Do they really stack up as dominant players of their era?

I honestly don't know since I've watched very little baseball over the last 15 years, but those numbers look like two guys for the Hall of Very Good.
Old 01-12-22, 02:09 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

I haven't dug into the numbers on Lester, and lord knows he had a reputation as being a big game pitcher. But he was never considered one of the very best pitchers in the league, was he? My gut says Hall of Very Good.
Old 01-12-22, 02:17 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

I would be perfectly fine with a year or two with no one getting in if there isn't anyone better than very good. If no one gets in for a year or two that could be a good thing.
Old 01-12-22, 03:20 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Lester was never really considered one of the best pitchers in the league. A valuable player, sure, but someone with his credentials would have needed another 3-4 years of solid performance to even be considered for the Hall. The only thing helping him is that the game is moving away from starting pitching and voters in ten years will be dealing with very paltry starting numbers. Within five years, things like 20-win seasons and 200 innings will seem like mythical numbers from the Dead Ball era.

That being said, the Veterans Committee are now putting in people like Harold Baines. Give it 20 years and Lester's contributions to the Cubs/Red Sox winning titles may be enough.
Old 01-12-22, 05:31 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Lester was never really considered one of the best pitchers in the league. A valuable player, sure, but someone with his credentials would have needed another 3-4 years of solid performance to even be considered for the Hall. The only thing helping him is that the game is moving away from starting pitching and voters in ten years will be dealing with very paltry starting numbers. Within five years, things like 20-win seasons and 200 innings will seem like mythical numbers from the Dead Ball era.

That being said, the Veterans Committee are now putting in people like Harold Baines. Give it 20 years and Lester's contributions to the Cubs/Red Sox winning titles may be enough.
I hope not, because at that point being in the Hall wouldn't mean as much. It literally would become the Hall of Very Good.
Old 02-14-22, 08:55 AM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
Yeah unless Stafford has a resurgence with the Rams (and man has he sucked the past few games) I don't see it. He has basically no accolades beyond stats. In the era of the watered down Pro Bowl I think he has what, one nomination? He's the best Lions QB of the modern era but that's... not saying much.

Guys like Rivers, Matt Ryan, Wilson, even Cam Newton with his MVP are more deserving.
Originally Posted by Decker View Post
I think he would have to make a Super Bowl. The only quarterbacks of the Super Bowl era who are in the Hall of Fame without making a Super Bowl are Dan Fouts and Warren Moon I think (of course Philip Rivers will make it three) . I don't think he has to win one. There's a pretty good chance that Matt Ryan will make the Hall of Fame cuz he has a Super Bowl appearance and a MVP, as well as impressive career passing numbers
Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
I don't think Stafford has any chance unless he suddenly becomes much better. I'd agree Ryan has a chance but his career looks on the down swing.
Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
I agree that if Stafford retired today, he has no chance. But he's just outside of the top 10 in a number of career stats, so if he plays a few years, gets into or close to top 5, and has a little bit of playoff success, he may very well get in.

If he wins a SB? Almost a lock.
I'm changing my mind here because I really didn't expect the playoff run (his first one) to go this well. I kind of agree with LurkerDan, maybe not to the point of a lock but definitely vaults him up there considering this is his first year with the team and how they couldn't lean on the running game at all.

Last year Brady showed that he didn't need Belichick to win, this year Stafford showed almost the opposite, that the Lions were holding him back all this time.
Old 02-14-22, 04:48 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

I kept saying Stafford makes the Hall if he won the Super Bowl and he did it. I'm not saying he'll be a first ballot choice or anything but if he hangs around for a couple more years playing decently in L.A., he's all but a lock.
Old 02-15-22, 05:59 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Am I the only one a bit peeved that Gary Sheffield isn't in the HOF?
Old 02-15-22, 06:54 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by sleepyhead55 View Post
Am I the only one a bit peeved that Gary Sheffield isn't in the HOF?
Being a San Diego guy I got to see him play.

Is he a Hall of Famer? Close. REALLY close. Probably not, though, if I'm being totally honest and taking my bias out of it. He'd be in the Hall of Very, VERY Good.

Was he as good as some of the guys that are in the HOF? Is he as good as some of the guys who will get in in the future?

Yes, to both. But not everyone who's in should be in.

I'd say Steve Garvey should be in more than Sheffield should.
Old 02-15-22, 07:50 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

If the Rams kept Goff they would not have reached the Super Bowl and does that help Stafford's case for the HOF?
Old 02-15-22, 09:12 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by The Cow View Post
DeMarcus Ware should get in, and maybe Torry Holt. Those would be my votes.
hard to believe Holt isnít in yet.
Old 02-16-22, 11:37 AM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by sleepyhead55 View Post
Am I the only one a bit peeved that Gary Sheffield isn't in the HOF?
He has hall of fame stats and is one of the guys that will eventually get in after Bonds/Clemens get their day. Heavily connected to Bonds.
Old 02-16-22, 12:41 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Yeah, Sheffield was named in the Mitchell report, was really called out in the book Game of Shadows and it was his trainer that gave "the cream" to Bonds. No chance he gets in before other known cheaters do.
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Old 02-16-22, 03:31 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Without the steroid claims, Sheffield would already be in the Hall. He feels like a case of eventually making it in a decade or two. If a player like A-Rod gets voted in, I could see a flood of confirmed PED users being let in like him.

Personally, I wouldn't vote for Sheffield as a PED hardliner. I believe Sheffield was juicing most of his career and his defense was pretty bad.
Old 02-16-22, 04:52 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Stafford has a career record of 89-98-1
Old 02-16-22, 04:59 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by Deadman31 View Post
Stafford has a career record of 89-98-1
He was also on the Lions for his entire career outside of this season.

Last edited by Deftones; 02-16-22 at 05:14 PM.
Old 02-16-22, 05:13 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

I understand that but a HOFer would risen above.
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Old 02-16-22, 05:15 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by Deadman31 View Post
I understand that but a HOFer would risen above.
A great QB can generally make a mediocre team average to above average but they can't make them world champions.
Old 02-16-22, 05:15 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by Deadman31 View Post
I understand that but a HOFer would risen above.
I realize he's a QB but which HOFer rose above the Lions record? Barry Sanders and Megatron are like near the top all time at their positions but I'm kind of afraid to look up their record in games they played in.
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