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Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Old 11-16-18, 12:13 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
No, but All-Pro honors carry a lot more meaning than Pro Bowl attendance.
Maybe now. But not long ago the Pro Bowl meant a lot more given there wasn't so many players opting out (or unavailable because of the SB) resulting with very few players being named as alternates.
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Old 11-16-18, 12:15 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Long enough ago when it comes to evaluating current players.

The Pro Bowl is a joke and has been for the last 15 years.
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Old 11-16-18, 12:30 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Maybe now. But not long ago the Pro Bowl meant a lot more given there wasn't so many players opting out (or unavailable because of the SB) resulting with very few players being named as alternates.
Not sure what you guys are talking about, Pro Bowl selections haven't been watered down!

I posted this earlier but this is the last pro bowl eli made in 2016, which is just a couple of y ears ago but man that class has aged poorly:

Quarterbacks:
Derek Carr
Eli Manning
Tyrod Taylor
Terry Bridgewater
Russel Wilson
Jameis Winston

Selected but did not participate:
Tom Brady
Cam Newton
Aaron Rodgers
Carson Palmer
Ben Roethilisberger

Number of QBs selected by year:
2011: 7
2012: 8
2013: 10
2014: 9
2015: 10
2017: 11

Carr has three Pro Bowl selections
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Old 11-16-18, 01:20 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
So only the few that All-Pro honors each year should be considered for the HOF? Well I guess it will be much easier to select from that really small sample size going forward.
Is that what I said?

Pro Bowl has much less meaning than All Pro, for the reasons people mentioned. Because they do not differentiate between those who were selected but did not attend and those who were selected to replace them.
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Old 11-16-18, 01:44 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Manning and Rivers are both an overwhelmingly easy no for me. Stick around for a decade and be in the top ten of your position sounds like a Hall of Above Average to me.
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Old 11-16-18, 02:15 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Just because a QB throw's the ball on every play and gets a lot of passing yardage doesn't automatically make him HoF material.
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Old 11-16-18, 02:45 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

What about Big Ben? Never All-Pro but those Superbowls should help.
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Old 11-16-18, 02:57 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
Pro Bowl has much less meaning than All Pro, for the reasons people mentioned. Because they do not differentiate between those who were selected but did not attend and those who were selected to replace them.
Less meaning, yes. My point is that it hasn't lost all meaning. Even when the number of QB's listed has doubled, it's still the top tier of QB's active that season. The key is that players don't make those expanded lists over that many years by accident.
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Old 11-16-18, 02:59 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by davidlynchfan View Post
What about Big Ben? Never All-Pro but those Superbowls should help.
Agreed. Great example of All-Pro selections not meaning as much as others are arguing.
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Old 11-16-18, 03:16 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Big Ben and Phillip Rivers are far more likely than Cam and Matt Ryan. Big consistent numbers for a decade are far more important than great single seasons in middling careers.
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Old 11-16-18, 03:21 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

By the way, here's a recent article from this Summer where ESPN.com debates the Hall of Fame Resumes of several top NFL players. They put Rivers in and Eli out.



Philip Rivers, QB

Résumé at a glance:


No. 4 overall pick by Giants in 2004 (traded to Chargers); has played 14 seasons (Chargers)

Seven Pro Bowls, 2013 NFL Comeback Player of the Year

342 passing TDs (sixth all time)

50,348 passing yards (ninth all time)

48,633 yards of total offense (ninth all time)

94.8 passer rating (eighth all time)

The HOF case for Rivers: Durability and production are two things that stand out when evaluating Rivers as a candidate. Rivers, 36, has not missed a start since he took over as the starter in 2006 -- a string of 201 consecutive starts, including playoffs, which makes him the NFL active leader. Rivers famously played with a torn ACL in the AFC Championship Game against the Patriots in the 2007 playoffs. Rivers has shown no signs of slowing down, either. Aside from the highlights listed in the résumé above, he ranks seventh in NFL history with 4,171 completions and 10th in completion percentage (64.2 percent). Rivers is 106-86 (.552) as a starter, and he has led the Chargers to four AFC West titles and taken the team to the playoffs five times. -- Eric D. Williams, Chargers reporter

The verdict: 3 votes

We lean toward "yes" because Rivers was great for an extended period. That is where these discussions begin. How many times was the player among the very best at his position? Rivers is one of six players in NFL history with at least four seasons of triple-digit passer ratings on 400-plus attempts. Drew Brees (seven), Tom Brady (six), Peyton Manning (six), Aaron Rodgers (six), Steve Young (four) and Rivers (four) comprise that list. Unlike Eli Manning, who chose which team he would play for, Rivers joined a Chargers organization that was so dysfunctional that it fired coach Marty Schottenheimer following a 14-2 season. Additional postseason success would put Rivers over the top. -- Sando

Eli Manning, QB
Résumé at a glance:


No. 1 overall pick by Chargers in 2004 (traded to Giants); has played 14 seasons (Giants)

Four Pro Bowls, two-time Super Bowl MVP (2007 and 2011)

339 passing TDs (eighth all time)

51,682 passing yards (sixth all time)

49,754 yards of total offense (seventh all time)

Started 210 consecutive games from 2004 to '17

The HOF case for Manning: The list of players who have won multiple Super Bowl MVPs is exclusive. It's Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw and ... Eli Manning. Talk about elite company. This is what makes Manning's career special. His playoff performances are legendary in those two playoff runs, when he threw 15 touchdown passes and two interceptions. He took down the Packers (once with Brett Favre, once with Aaron Rodgers) and the big, bad Patriots with Brady and Bill Belichick twice. Also, Manning will finish his career in the top 10 of pretty much every major statistical category as he enters his 15th season as the Giants' starter. There have been ups and downs throughout his career, especially early and in the regular season, but Manning's overall résumé is impressive, especially in the postseason. -- Jordan Raanan, Giants reporter

The verdict: 2 votes

The HOF debate for Eli will be fiery, but Manning's four Pro Bowl appearances will pale in comparison to his peers, and his career interceptions (228) will weigh heavily in the discussion as well. It's also important to note that he and Roethlisberger, who was also drafted in 2004 and has two Super Bowl titles, will likely be considered at roughly the same time, so that will potentially split some votes among the Hall's board of selectors. Ultimately, the voters will be asked if Manning was one of the best quarterbacks in an era of Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers and Roethlisberger. He could find himself the Jim Plunkett of his time, with two Super Bowl rings, a pretty good argument and no gold jacket. -- Legwold



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Old 11-16-18, 03:33 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Agreed. Great example of All-Pro selections not meaning as much as others are arguing.
Except again, nobody is arguing that. People are arguing that is much more meaningful than Pro Bowl appearances which has about zero meaning,
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Old 11-16-18, 03:44 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Big Ben and Phillip Rivers are far more likely than Cam and Matt Ryan. Big consistent numbers for a decade are far more important than great single seasons in middling careers.
You should take a look at Ryan's stats. He has similar numbers that Rivers has, just a couple fewer years less since he's younger. Ryan is 14th in passing yards an 15th in TDs. Plus, he's got that MVP.
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Old 11-16-18, 03:52 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Less meaning, yes. My point is that it hasn't lost all meaning. Even when the number of QB's listed has doubled, it's still the top tier of QB's active that season. The key is that players don't make those expanded lists over that many years by accident.
I didn't say it had lost all meaning, I said it means little and All Pro means a lot more, because it's so much harder to achieve. I never said that All Pro is a requirement, simply that it's a much more telling accolade. Because if Pro Bowl simply means that QB is in the top tier of active QBs, say top 1/3 or top 1/4 (based on the numbers posted), that's not all that compelling to say that Rivers has been to 7 pro bowls. A Hall of Fame QB should be better than in the top 1/3 for 7 seasons.
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Old 11-16-18, 04:27 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Philip Rivers is more or less a lock for the Hall of Fame by this point. Going by career numbers, he's one of the top-ranked QBs in history. And he looks to add more now that the Chargers have decent receivers again. The Chargers failed to put a good team around him for years.

Romo is going to get in because he's a Cowboy and a beloved broadcaster.
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Old 11-16-18, 04:35 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

I really doubt Romo gets in. If Rivers retired now I'd say no, but he seems to be going strong so he'll rack up enough stats to get in.

Eli probably deserves the Plunkett treatment, but may squeak in.

Big Ben could retire now and get in; very similar stats to Rivers BUT 2 SBs and 40 more regular season wins in almost the same amount of starts. Plus Rivers is 4-5 in the playoffs and Ben is 13-8.
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Old 11-16-18, 04:38 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

I know I'm in the minority with this opinion, but Romo is an awful, awful broadcaster.

Last edited by Obi-Wan Jabroni; 11-16-18 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 11-16-18, 05:22 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Good lord, now people are putting Romo in.

Who's next - Stafford?
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Old 11-16-18, 06:19 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Rivers is playing in his 13th season(the first two seasons he didn't play).

Over 13 seasons he is 113-88(25 games above .500). That comes out to roughly 9-7 per season.

He hasn't done anything earth shattering in the playoffs. He is 4-5.

I say that's not good enough for the HoF but Joe Namath is in.
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Old 11-16-18, 06:44 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

I say let Namath be the anomaly and not the bar. No sense in throwing good money after bad and letting in anyone who meets his threshold.
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Old 11-16-18, 06:58 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

For me...

Rivers - not in yet, but could still get there
Romo - no
Big Ben - pretty much in
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Old 11-17-18, 03:45 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

I'm not saying Romo belongs in the Hall. But he's a very popular Cowboys QB and will stay relevant because he's going to be a broadcast announcer the next three decades. That is likely going to get him inducted one day.

The best thing marginal HOF candidates can do is go into broadcasting and become popular that way.
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Old 11-25-18, 09:43 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Originally Posted by dvd-4-life View Post
Rivers is playing in his 13th season(the first two seasons he didn't play).

Over 13 seasons he is 113-88(25 games above .500). That comes out to roughly 9-7 per season.

He hasn't done anything earth shattering in the playoffs. He is 4-5.

I say that's not good enough for the HoF but Joe Namath is in.
He plays for a garbage franchise,I don't think you can take W-L for QB's as an arbitrator since players only play on 1 side of the ball.

The guy is basically a Clyde Drexler to the Brady's-Mannings Jordanesqueness. 1 or 2 season's where he was top 3 elite but mostly a top 5-top 10 guy for a prolong period of time who is just below the goat level player's but still better then Hall Of Good(Romo) and Hall of Borderline(Manning,Matt Ryan)
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Old 12-10-18, 12:05 PM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

Lee Smith and Harold Baines get elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame, maybe Smith is more deserving I guess (he was the all-time saves leader at the time of his retirement.), neither were really that close during their time on the ballot though...

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...make-hall-fame
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Old 01-04-19, 11:27 AM
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Re: Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

The Modern Era finalists for the 2019 Pro Football Hall of Fame, who from this list should make it?

I think Champ Bailey, Tony Gonzalez, and Ed Reed are locks.

________________________
  • Champ Bailey
  • Steve Atwater
  • Tony Boselli
  • Isaac Bruce
  • Don Coryell
  • Alan Faneca
  • Tom Flores
  • Tony Gonzalez
  • Steve Hutchinson
  • Edgerrin James
  • Ty Law
  • John Lynch
  • Kevin Mawae
  • Ed Reed
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