Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Sports Talk
Reload this Page >

How good is Vick?

Sports Talk Discuss all things Sports Related
View Poll Results: How do you feel about Vick?
He's a top 5 QB and one of the NFLs premier players
16
21.92%
He's an above average QB
28
38.36%
He's average at best, overrated because of the highlight reel plays
29
39.73%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

How good is Vick?

Old 09-13-05, 01:03 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jobland
Posts: 4,289
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
How good is Vick?

I think Vick is the 3rd best QB in the NFL, after Brady and Manning. In the last 2+ years the Falcons are 15-6 with him, 1-11 without him, or very close to it.
Old 09-13-05, 01:09 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Work. Or commuting. Certainly not at home.
Posts: 17,816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Incredibly overrated as a QB?

Look, he can run, and he's incredible at getting out of sacks and making something out of nothing. But look at his passing (not running) numbers over the past few years. Kyle Boller, Joey Harrington, fuck, even Jay Fiedler's numbers are as good or better.

He might get that arm one day, he might learn how to be an NFL quarterback. As of now, he's nowhere near the top 5 QBs in the league.
Old 09-13-05, 01:09 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 17,320
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
He had the 21st best quarterback rating last year, was 27th in percentage completed, and was 26th in passing yards. He is obviously a great scrambler, but he's not a good quarterback.
Old 09-13-05, 01:11 PM
  #4  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Blu-Ray: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Petition
Posts: 6,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Being a quarterback is more than just throwing a ball. While his passer rating is average at best, his ability to make plays when any other quarterback would be sacked makes him unique in the league. He is a true leader of his team. And as you pointed out, he makes a real difference. He is a top quarterback in the league.

And yes, I am biased. GO HOKIES!
Old 09-13-05, 01:15 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 17,320
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
In 2004, Atlanta had the #1 rushing offense in the NFL by a big margin, yet they were only the #20 overall offense.
Old 09-13-05, 01:26 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mordred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 12,214
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by WildcatLH
Incredibly overrated as a QB?

Look, he can run, and he's incredible at getting out of sacks and making something out of nothing. But look at his passing (not running) numbers over the past few years. Kyle Boller, Joey Harrington, fuck, even Jay Fiedler's numbers are as good or better.

He might get that arm one day, he might learn how to be an NFL quarterback. As of now, he's nowhere near the top 5 QBs in the league.
I think if Rush Limbaugh had made his comments about Vick instead of McNabb he might still be working on Sundays.
Old 09-13-05, 01:26 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Hero
 
das Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Quarterback is about leading the team down the field, not just being a great passer. Whatever gets the job done is what makes a great QB. If that means running, great. Passing? Great. Not throwing picks in key situations? Great. Judging Vick by passing stats alone is stupid. If he runs a perfect bootleg setup that lets Dunn eat up 30 yards down the middle of the field, that's just as useful as throwing the pass. The threat of the Vick run is a huge reason they were #1 in rushing last year.

That said, I'd say he's Top 10, but he still has a lot of growth ahead of him. He has a rocket arm, but his accuracy struggles. I'd rather have Vick over most of the QBs in the league with better passer ratings, but even with his running ability, he's not near Brady or Manning and still behind guys like McNabb and Culpepper.

das
Old 09-13-05, 01:28 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Vick's a decent little QB. Top 10 for sure. But he's also overrated. Fact is that he's just not a very good passer.

Somebody mentioned that they considered him third behind Brady and Manning. To place him above Culpepper and McNabb is a little absurd, IMHO. Culpepper set an NFL record for yards last year and McNabb has taken his team to the NFCC four years running, with one Super Bowl. Vick has done nothing to match those accomplisments.
Old 09-13-05, 01:29 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Maxflier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 12,144
Received 35 Likes on 25 Posts
Great runner, average quarterback.
Old 09-13-05, 01:33 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Hero
 
das Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
mgbfan

McNabb has taken his team to the NFCC four years running, with one Super Bowl. Vick has done nothing to match those accomplisments.
To be fair, he was hurt one year, single-handedly beat Green Bay at Lamb(ert) Field another, and took his team to the NFCC in the third. And don't tell me that (sans QB) the Falcons were close to as good as the Eagles any of those years. Hey, I'd rather have McNabb too, but Vick's no slouch. I mean, look at the guy's receiver corps before criticizing him too much.

das
Old 09-13-05, 01:37 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 17,320
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by das Monkey
Quarterback is about leading the team down the field, not just being a great passer. Whatever gets the job done is what makes a great QB. If that means running, great. Passing? Great. Not throwing picks in key situations? Great.
They were only in the middle of the pack in terms scoring offense, though, and only seven QBs threw INTs at a higher percentage than Vick.

That being said, if I was starting a team now, I'd take him fifth (behind Brady, Manning, McNabb, and Culpepper) and hope he learns to throw the ball better. Give Vick better receivers and he would probably have better stats.
Old 09-13-05, 01:43 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Hero
 
das Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Jeremy517

They were only in the middle of the pack in terms scoring offense, though, and only seven QBs threw INTs at a higher percentage than Vick.
The comment you quoted was about QBs in general, not Vick specifically. Vick has a lot of room for growth. I just think judging QBs by passing stats alone makes no sense. A great QB gets the job done however he can.

das
Old 09-13-05, 01:55 PM
  #13  
Retired
 
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 27,449
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Top 5.

Few QBs have as much an impact on the game and the other teams game plan as Vick.
Old 09-13-05, 01:59 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Work. Or commuting. Certainly not at home.
Posts: 17,816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Vick does have a lot of room for growth as a passer. But at the same time, this is his 5th year in the league (well, 4 and a quarter if you count the injury year) and it's time to see this growth. If it doesn't happen this year or next year it's never going to happen.
Old 09-13-05, 02:11 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Hero
 
das Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I agree. This is the big test year for him. Everything was chaos in his early years, with injury and changing offenses. Now things are stable, and with the exception of having below average receivers, there aren't too many excuses for this season. He needs to shine now.

das
Old 09-13-05, 02:11 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jobland
Posts: 4,289
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mgbfan
Somebody mentioned that they considered him third behind Brady and Manning. To place him above Culpepper and McNabb is a little absurd, IMHO. Culpepper set an NFL record for yards last year and McNabb has taken his team to the NFCC four years running, with one Super Bowl. Vick has done nothing to match those accomplisments.
The Vikings won games with Frerotte and the Eagles with AJ Feeley and Koy Detmer over the years. Vick goes down, they can't score and their defense can't get off the field. In the only 2 seasons where Vick has taken more than half the snaps, Atlanta became the 1st team to win a playoff game in Lambeau and they made the NFC Championship game. Culpepper has been to the NFC Championship game (his 1st season starting) but that squad was stacked and he was a big reason they lost 42-0 to the Giants. I believe Vick has either the top 2 or 2 of the top 3 rushing totals for QBs since the merger, but I could be wrong. I really soured on McNabb since the Super Bowl. He lost the game for the Eagles and has since lost control of his team.
Old 09-13-05, 02:15 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk God
 
twikoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Right Behind You!!!
Posts: 79,500
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
vick makes this team win
this is a .500 team without him
and only slightly better with a good passing qb
this offense is built around him, and is not designed for him to put up huge passing yards

its designed for the falcons to win.. and they do
Old 09-13-05, 02:19 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Carrollton, Ga
Posts: 4,809
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
well, 4 and a quarter if you count the injury year
He's 28-12 as a starter. That's how good.

well, 4 and a quarter if you count the injury year
Actually, it's his 3rd and a quarter season of playing. The fact is he sat behind Chris Chandler his first year and hardly played.

Look, his first full year starting he worked in the Dan Reeve's offense, which is about as vanilla as you can get. He thens gets injured and only plays 4 games his second full season as a starter. Then after that, his QB coach, head coach, and entire offense is fired, and in comes an entirely new staff with one of the most complicated offenses to run in terms of reads, progressions, and throws. An offense that Vick has never seen before. Couple that with the fact that Vick has one of the worst pass blocking OLs in the league, and below average WRs, you can see he doesn't have the guns around him. I keep belaboring this point, but look at how many times he was sacked last year. The Falcons were at or near the bottom of the league in giving up sacks. Most of those sacks came when he was in the pocket. They're terrible. His WRs are at best mediocre, and at worst below average. I find it funny that he has no trouble throwing the ball to Algee Crumpler no matter where he is on the field. It's also strange that he is deadly accurate on the move, but not so much in the pocket. He doesn't trust his OL. Who can blame him.

Having said that, there's always room for improvement. But as Madden said last night, when Atlanta's receivers and line improve in the areas where they are weakest, so will Vick.

But those of you expecting Vick to be a Peyton Manning clone who drops back all the time, and throws 50 times a game for 400 yards, forget it. He's not going to be that, ever. The guy just wins, and in the end that's the most important thing. If they aren't winning, he usually finds a way.

That's my opinion. But certainly he can get better. But he can't do it all himself.

this is a .500 team without him
In fact, they're even worse than that without him. His injury year, the Falcons went 2-10. When he came back, they went 3-1. But I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment.
Old 09-13-05, 02:26 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Carrollton, Ga
Posts: 4,809
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
McNabb has taken his team to the NFCC four years running
By the way, McNabb wasn't always as good as he is now. It took him years to become the QB he is today. He used to run a lot as well in his early years, and was nowhere near the passer he is today. Then again, he can say he has Terrell Owens. Who's Vick got, Michael Jenkins. See my point. Then again, McNabb wasn't too hot either last night.
Old 09-13-05, 02:50 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 125,076
Received 136 Likes on 107 Posts
Originally Posted by das Monkey
I'd rather have Vick over most of the QBs in the league with better passer ratings, but even with his running ability, he's not near Brady or Manning and still behind guys like McNabb and Culpepper.

das

Exactly. That is how I would measure it. Except for Brady, Manning, McNabb, or Culpepper, I cannot name a QB I would rather have leading my team more than Vick.

Given the shaky line and lousy WRs, I think Vick has done an excellent job.

Furthermore, there is no player in the NFL that ignites a home crowd like Vick does. The Georgia Dome was a morgue before he got there. I don't think he is given enough credit for this.

Last edited by Red Dog; 09-13-05 at 02:52 PM.
Old 09-13-05, 03:04 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 2,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As many have already mentioned, stats can be very misleading. Sure, Vick needs to improve on his passing skills, but his team wins when he's out there. When he's out, they lose. Its really that simple as to how effective he is. Id place him probably in the 4-6 range in terms of top quaterbacks (Behind Brady, Manning, and McNabb and amongst the ranks of Culpepper and Favre). His accuracy must improve before he can ever reach top QB status. As soon as it does, he'll be the best in the game. Depending what team I have to work with (types of offensive players, coaching style etc..) he'd be the first QB for my team.
Old 09-13-05, 03:12 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
fumanstan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 55,349
Received 20 Likes on 8 Posts
Above Average. Not Top 5, but Top 10 easily.
Old 09-13-05, 05:49 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,189
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
He changes the game. I dislike when you hear analysts talk about the "intangibles" a guy brings, but it definately applies to Vick. So long as he keeps the herpes under control, he is one tough QB.
Old 09-13-05, 07:26 PM
  #24  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,791
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by kvrdave
He changes the game. I dislike when you hear analysts talk about the "intangibles" a guy brings, but it definately applies to Vick. So long as he keeps the herpes under control, he is one tough QB.
Ron Mexico sucks!!!

He fumbles and loses you 2 fantasy points and then he kneels 3 times at the end of the game

Both times I was ahead of Kvrdave in fantasy football and both times I lost the lead to lose by 0.12 points
Old 09-13-05, 08:12 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Carrollton, Ga
Posts: 4,809
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
So long as he keeps the herpes under control, he is one tough QB.
Do we even have a clue as to whether that is true, or are we just going by some anonymous woman who claims he gave it to her? Cause if I have to go on the word of a groupie, whose probably had sex with umpteen players, then I might have reason to be skeptical. Not that I care to know Vick's personal business.

Last edited by Terrell; 09-13-05 at 08:27 PM.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.