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What would Griffey have done on steroids?

Old 07-21-05, 01:01 AM
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What would Griffey have done on steroids?

Griffey moved ahead of Ted Williams tonight on the all-time HR list with 522, which makes me wonder what he would have done on steroids. This is assuming he never used steroids, which is fairly safe considering there has been zero change to his face or body in 15 years.

I think he would have been less prone to injury with the extra bulk, although not as good defensively, would have won a WS in Seattle, maybe go 50-50 one year, and then ended up on the Yankees somehow. I say he'd break 755 HR around now.
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Old 07-21-05, 03:13 AM
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Old 07-21-05, 03:17 AM
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I don't think Griffey needed steroids, but he did need to work harder to keep himself in shape. Those constant injuries had a lot to do with lack of conditioning. I think he is an example of too much natural ability being a bad thing.
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Old 07-21-05, 09:11 AM
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actually, he has filled out some, he doesn't look exactly the same as he did 15 years ago. Furthermore, not all steroids make you bulk up. I'd like to think that he as well as many others never used them, but I don't think we can really assume that.
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Old 07-21-05, 09:54 AM
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The Gigantism probably would have gotten to him.
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Old 07-21-05, 09:59 AM
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Old 07-21-05, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Aphex Twin
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Old 07-21-05, 10:24 AM
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i doubt it would have made him less prone to injury.. its often pointed out that people on roids have more nagging injuries.. although it would be tough for him to have more.

and its always funny when people dispute his work ethic.. it may have been the case early in his career.. but his managers and teammates have constantly defended him.. pointing out the massive amount of time he has spent on conditioning and game preparation.
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Old 07-21-05, 10:57 AM
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He'd have just hit a few more homers. I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

The extra bulk wouldn't have made him healthier though. Putting on extra bulk usually makes your joints more vulnerable. Especially if you use steroids to get bigger than your body naturally would support through diet and training.
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Old 07-21-05, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cleaver
I think he would have been less prone to injury with the extra bulk, although not as good defensively, would have won a WS in Seattle, maybe go 50-50 one year, and then ended up on the Yankees somehow. I say he'd break 755 HR around now.
Apparently you have Griffey confused with God. Of course God would only be "playing down to the level of his competition". And God would completely own Jesus, because Jesus cannot hit a curveball.

Just curious though, in yuo fantasy Griffey world, why would Griddey go 50/50? He never even went 40/40. And theoretically the whole point of taking roids is to bulk up, not to increase steals. And as another side note, wouldn't steroids make one MORE prone to injury (EDIT: which if I actually read the above post, I would have realized has already been mentioned )?
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Old 07-21-05, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
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He probably would have hit the B&O Warehouse.....in an actual game.
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Old 07-21-05, 01:25 PM
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I think he would've hit more HRs when he was healthy, but his body would've broken down earlier (if that was even possible).
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Old 07-21-05, 02:03 PM
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Besides the fact that the point of steroids is to help the body recover faster, I'm under the impression that the type of injuries steroid users have are muscle/tendon injuries like Nevin always has, as opposed to injuries to joints like Griffey often has. The 6'3" 255 lb Griffey runs into a wall, he's not hitting the 60 day DL. Before McGwire got to St. Louis he missed like 120 games one season with a bruised heel, he turns into the incredible hulk he's a lock to play 140 games. It's no big thing for Gagne to pitch 3-4 days in a row, throw more than 1 inning a couple of times, all of a sudden he can't stay off the DL. Steroids wouldn't change Griffey's luck, but maybe instead a trip to the DL he misses a game or 2. As for 50 steals, roids also can make you faster.
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Old 07-21-05, 02:23 PM
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It's true that roid injuries aren't the type Griffey had. My point was that he'd probably still have those injuries as well as having some ligment, muscle and joint weardown from being too heavy for his frame if he used roids and bulked up.

You can't really use Mac's heel injury as an example. Crap like that won't be helped or prevented by steroids. Roids will help muscles recover faster, but that's it.
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Old 07-21-05, 05:10 PM
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If he was on roids, he would have been on the dl longer. roids affect the amount of time it takes for your body to heal after injury.
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Old 07-21-05, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by twikoff
and its always funny when people dispute his work ethic.. it may have been the case early in his career..
It was something he was criticized for the entire time he was a Mariner. All those injuries (hamstring, etc) he started getting when he joined the Reds were blamed by many on his poor conditioning. He may have changed over the last few years, but it was definitely something he was criticized for a very long time.
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Old 07-21-05, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by darkside
It was something he was criticized for the entire time he was a Mariner. All those injuries (hamstring, etc) he started getting when he joined the Reds were blamed by many on his poor conditioning. He may have changed over the last few years, but it was definitely something he was criticized for a very long time.
just because he was criticized for it doesn't mean it is true. that was twikoff's point, I think.
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Old 07-21-05, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cleaver
Besides the fact that the point of steroids is to help the body recover faster, I'm under the impression that the type of injuries steroid users have are muscle/tendon injuries like Nevin always has, as opposed to injuries to joints like Griffey often has. The 6'3" 255 lb Griffey runs into a wall, he's not hitting the 60 day DL. Before McGwire got to St. Louis he missed like 120 games one season with a bruised heel, he turns into the incredible hulk he's a lock to play 140 games. It's no big thing for Gagne to pitch 3-4 days in a row, throw more than 1 inning a couple of times, all of a sudden he can't stay off the DL. Steroids wouldn't change Griffey's luck, but maybe instead a trip to the DL he misses a game or 2. As for 50 steals, roids also can make you faster.

I think you're a bit misguided on the steroids issue. First, as mentioned there has never been any proof that steroids makes a ballplayer any better statistically. Even if this is true, and it probably is, the effect of steroids is often extremely exaggerated in the media. Next, while steroids can help muscles recovery quicker, it won't exactly prevent injuries. Griffey broke his wrist/hamate running into a wall. Steroids won't prevent or help cure that. Griffey's also had all types of hamstring injuries, and steroids won't really help you there either.

As for the players you mentioned, the evidence on McGwire on Gagne is questionable at best. To understand the effects of steroids on a player you need a much bigger sample size than one. And I don't think you really looked at McGwire's stats. McGwire may have a rep of being injury prone, but here are his games played per season once he became a regular: 151, 155, 143, 156, 154, 139, 27, 47, 104, 130, 156, 155, 153, 89, 87. I don't know when McGwire started to take steroids, but it's not like he magically became healthier. He just had a bad few year run. You can look throughout baseball history and see similar injury patterns among non-steroid users.

As for Gagne, he basically had one injury, he tore his ulnar collateral ligament. That's a pretty common injury and the easily explains his struggles this year. Nothing in his stats this year suggest he was on steroids or even tells you the affects of steroids if he was. UCL injuries, which require Tommy John surgery, are fairly common and knock plenty of non steroid users out of action for a while too (i.e. John Smoltz).

I think your arguments are guided too much on media misconceptions and sophistry. If you look at the raw data, not much of these claims would appear to hold up.
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Old 07-21-05, 07:44 PM
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He would have popped a few more zits on his back and neck.
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Old 07-21-05, 09:16 PM
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I think he woulda won the Kentucky Derby
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Old 07-22-05, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by uli2000
If he was on roids, he would have been on the dl longer. roids affect the amount of time it takes for your body to heal after injury.
It's the opposite effect though. Roids generally let you heal from most injuries faster, especially if it's a muscle injury.
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Old 07-22-05, 12:04 PM
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and nobody has yet commented on my point: how do we know he wasn't already on steroids?
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Old 07-22-05, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by LurkerDan
and nobody has yet commented on my point: how do we know he wasn't already on steroids?
There's no need to, the original post already said to assume he wasn't
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Old 07-23-05, 12:54 AM
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Worse. What would he have done if he never had an injury?
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Old 07-23-05, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
It's the opposite effect though. Roids generally let you heal from most injuries faster, especially if it's a muscle injury.
that's the exact reason why Ken Caminiti started taking the juice
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