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What if Jason Giambi...

Old 07-12-05, 02:08 PM
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What if Jason Giambi...

bats .315, has 40 HR's and 120 RBI's next season?

Would it change the way people think about steroids? I know there will be some skeptics who would assume he's back on the roids but for those who believe that he's not would it make the myths of steroids in baseball different? Would people start to believe that maybe steroids doesn't have as much of an effect on baseball players as they once thought?

Just curious as to what would happen, he's been on fire lately and him reaching those above numbers this year is kind of far fetched but you never know what could happen next season.

Leave the Yankee hate at the door please
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Old 07-12-05, 02:11 PM
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It wouldn't change my mind that much as I'm just not convinced that steroids add that many homeruns to ones stats. Just a few more that barely go out due to the extra strenght and bat speed.

So it's part of the reason for the drop in power, but I think more is just people not pitching to Bonds the past few years, and the retirement and decline of sluggers like McGwire, Sosa etc. who were anomolies.
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Old 07-12-05, 02:11 PM
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once a cheater, always a cheater. there are no second chances. (but that's just me )
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Old 07-12-05, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
once a cheater, always a cheater. there are no second chances. (but that's just me )
Thats fair. Giambi cheated, thats fact. However, my question doesn't ask if peoples opinion on Giambi will change. It asks if peoples opinion on steroids in baseball will change.
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Old 07-12-05, 03:35 PM
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i would say there is a better chance that my opinion of giambi would change some, more than my opinion of baseball

assuming players are off the steroids.. there are some players putting up some pretty damn big homerun numbers this season.. many on pace for 40s.. and its possible one or two may even get to 50 (probably wont happen, but possible)..
so while as a whole, homerun numbers are down.. the individual numbers for alot of players still are pretty nice. So my opinion wouldnt change much on baseball

but it might help if jason could prove that he could do it without the enhancements.
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Old 07-12-05, 03:46 PM
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You lost me at leave the Yankee hate at the door ............Really though the whole steroids thing was never a really big deal to me. I just dont believe its the biggest problem in sports as the media and govt seem to make it out as.
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Old 07-12-05, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
...and the retirement and decline of sluggers like McGwire, Sosa etc. who were anomolies.
Sosa is a shadow of his former physical self. Before steroids testing he was massive and chiseled. Now, less than a year later, he has the body of a middle infielder. Nothing too anomalous about that.
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Old 07-12-05, 04:14 PM
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Having not looked at the stats, but is this hitting tear at home ? If so, lets see what he does on the road. Also this is only a span of 10 days correct? Also, he better hit, he is one of the few on that lineup that are going to get really good pitches and for the few HR's that he has, it's not that great so far.
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Old 07-12-05, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Goat3001
Thats fair. Giambi cheated, thats fact. However, my question doesn't ask if peoples opinion on Giambi will change. It asks if peoples opinion on steroids in baseball will change.

yeah, I still don't think people will care.

using steroids has a tremendously negative effect on one's body, but with all the training and assistance one's able to receive (and considering how little is known about recovering from steroids) I can't grant any leeway. People only know what they are told and that isn't much from Selig's MLB. It'll take a long time before opinion will change (if ever).
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Old 07-12-05, 04:20 PM
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I at least have respect for the guy for owning up to it (although he never specifically said). All the other guys who either lied (i.e. Sheffield) about it or continue deny it (i.e. Bonds) are total asses, in my opinion.
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Old 07-12-05, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
using steroids has a tremendously negative effect on one's body,
Honestly, that's somewhat over blown. If used properly, the effects aren't that bad. I've never used them personally, but I'm big on weight lifting and have read a good deal on supplmentation and nutrition.

They can be used to increase muscle mass without doing long term damage if the proper ones are used, in the proper dosages for the proper amounts of time.

Last edited by Josh Hinkle; 07-12-05 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 07-12-05, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Flashback
Having not looked at the stats, but is this hitting tear at home ? If so, lets see what he does on the road. Also this is only a span of 10 days correct? Also, he better hit, he is one of the few on that lineup that are going to get really good pitches and for the few HR's that he has, it's not that great so far.
He looks more confident at the plate for sure. But I think this period of power has been, by and large, at home. And to top it off, he's hit at least 2 HRs during the run that have virtually scraped the top of the RF wall and another that bounced out of Jay Gibbons' glove and over. Most of his recent HRs have been unimpressive. I think he hit the upper deck facade in right, but you know what they say about blind squirrels.

Anyway, no, I don't think anyone's opinions of steroids will be changed. Of course, I'm also not betting on Giambi putting up anywhere near those kinds of numbers, either.
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Old 07-12-05, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Honestly, that's somewhat over blown. If used properly, the effects are that bad. I've never used them personally, but I'm big on weight lifting and have read a good deal on supplmentation and nutrition.

They can be used to increase muscle mass without doing long term damage if the proper ones are used, in the proper dosages for the proper amounts of time.

but can't muscles detach from bone and destroy the liver? I think you're probably right though because these guys are privy to the best advice and info. regarding what will work best and do the least amount of damage. I'm still suspicious of Bonds' and his surgeries and so on.
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Old 07-12-05, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
but can't muscles detach from bone and destroy the liver? I think you're probably right though because these guys are privy to the best advice and info. regarding what will work best and do the least amount of damage. I'm still suspicious of Bonds' and his surgeries and so on.
That's a worst case scenario, that will really only result from misuse and bad drugs.
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Old 07-12-05, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
That's a worst case scenario, that will really only result from misuse and bad drugs.
ah. good to know (not that I'm planning on juicing any time soon)
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Old 07-12-05, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
once a cheater, always a cheater. there are no second chances. (but that's just me )
I agree. A cheater like Giambi should be kicked out of baseball.
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Old 07-12-05, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Honestly, that's somewhat over blown. If used properly, the effects aren't that bad. I've never used them personally, but I'm big on weight lifting and have read a good deal on supplmentation and nutrition.

They can be used to increase muscle mass without doing long term damage if the proper ones are used, in the proper dosages for the proper amounts of time.
HBO's Real Sports (the best sports show on TV IMO) had a show about the "danger" of steroids. They basically found there was none so long as it was they were administered properly and responsibly. There has never been a single death attributed to steroids... including Lyle Alzado (no matter what he thought -- his doctor disagreed 100%). It was pretty eye opening to the culture of hysteria we have in this country.
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Old 07-12-05, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
ah. good to know (not that I'm planning on juicing any time soon)
but you could be HUGE
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Old 07-12-05, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by twikoff
but you could be HUGE

not in the pants.
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Old 07-12-05, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mordred
It was pretty eye opening to the culture of hysteria we have in this country.
Yeah it's absurd. Though a lot of it comes from abuse by high schoolers. No one should be using steroids, or even things like creatine, until after age 18.

You're body has plenty of growth hormone, testosterone etc. in your growing years to fuel muscle building.

No need to fuck it up by adding supplements.
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Old 07-12-05, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
not in the pants.
just get a rope and a cinder block
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Old 07-12-05, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Yeah it's absurd. Though a lot of it comes from abuse by high schoolers. No one should be using steroids, or even things like creatine, until after age 18.

You're body has plenty of growth hormone, testosterone etc. in your growing years to fuel muscle building.

No need to fuck it up by adding supplements.
Yeah, that was what HBO was saying. Anyone under 18 or Female should NEVER take steroids as they can have serious negative effects.
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Old 07-12-05, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mordred
Yeah, that was what HBO was saying. Anyone under 18 or Female should NEVER take steroids as they can have serious negative effects.
I kind of agree. You look at guys like Barry Bonds who played as well as you can in his late 30's and early 40's and its obvious the roids never had any noticable negative effects on him. Granted he was taking the high quality stuff and I'm sure he carefully monitored his intake, but considering the large number of athletes that have used them (more than we will ever really know) there really are very few stories of roids destroying a guys health.

I remember Brian Boz'roid blaming his injuries and his career getting cut short on steroid use, but I'm not sure we can know if his injuries were really caused by them.

The tragedy to me is all the young high school guys that do this to try to get an edge. It is kind of sad when teenage kids destroy their health at that young of an age. I'd still like to see them eliminated from sports because they are cheating pure and simply whether they are health risks or not.
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Old 07-12-05, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Mordred
HBO's Real Sports (the best sports show on TV IMO) had a show about the "danger" of steroids. They basically found there was none so long as it was they were administered properly and responsibly. There has never been a single death attributed to steroids... including Lyle Alzado (no matter what he thought -- his doctor disagreed 100%). It was pretty eye opening to the culture of hysteria we have in this country.
It's not just the mortality, it's the morbidity too.
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Old 07-13-05, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
I agree. A cheater like Giambi should be kicked out of baseball.
How is it cheating when it wasn't against the rules?
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