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Steve Nash Named NBA MVP

Old 05-10-05, 02:05 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by WildcatLH
My problem with the MVP voting wasn't Nash winning... didn't agree with that, but there was a clear argument for him.

My question... HOW THE $(@)[email protected] DOES ALLAN IVERSON ONLY GET 5TH PLACE??? I mean, I know the 76ers weren't that good, but Iverson has a CBA team around him. The 76ers would've been a 12-17 win team without him.
He didn't win because he wasn't white .

Anywho, the race was basically 5 players: Nash, LeBron, Shaq, Dirk and AI. I would not have had a problem with any of those guys winning, they all deserved it.
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Old 05-10-05, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WildcatLH
My problem with the MVP voting wasn't Nash winning... didn't agree with that, but there was a clear argument for him.

My question... HOW THE $(@)[email protected] DOES ALLAN IVERSON ONLY GET 5TH PLACE??? I mean, I know the 76ers weren't that good, but Iverson has a CBA team around him. The 76ers would've been a 12-17 win team without him.
a) He's been doing it for years
b) Turning your team from a lottery pick to a first-round flameout doesn't do much for your chances
c) Somewhat tarnished image over the years

Just some of the reasons. And I love AI. But it's become old hat for MVP voters.

"Oh, you mean AI just took a worthless team and brought them to the playoffs? Just like every other year? Nah, he doesn't get my vote."
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Old 05-10-05, 02:20 PM
  #28  
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Anyone who thinks race had anything to do with this is a freaking moron.

OK, will all of the white MVP's in the last 25 years please raise your hand.

Thank you, Larry Bird.
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Old 05-10-05, 02:22 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by El Scorcho
Lol, I'm done with this thread. You just equated Chauncy Billups to Nazr Mohammed.



You're right. But I was struggling to find an effective center that would be considered good, not great. Billups (God bless him) is only an average point guard; he makes up for it with clutch shooting, but he's sort of a middle-of-the-pack one.

(By the way, I just went down the line and picked a middle-of-the-pack player from the RPG and APG categories, respectively)
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Old 05-10-05, 02:33 PM
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A better approach would have been Nazr Mohammed with someone like Speedy Claxton. Chauncy's one of the main cogs of Detroit's lineup.
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Old 05-10-05, 02:50 PM
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Iverson DOES have a good supporting cast-- Webber, Igoudala, Dalembert etc....

You put Kobe, McGrady, or Lebron on that team instead of Iverson and it would have done much better than it did.
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Old 05-10-05, 02:50 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by El Scorcho
A better approach would have been Nazr Mohammed with someone like Speedy Claxton. Chauncy's one of the main cogs of Detroit's lineup.
OK, I can accept that. In hindsight, Chancy Billups was a horrible choice... I picked his name without really thinking.


As to Wildcatlh's point about AI... I actually think they have a pretty decent team even without AI. Andre Iguodala is going to be a star... Dalembert played tough in the middle... Kyle Korver is a great sparkplug and Willie Green is going to be a solid player.

And don't forget that even with his defensive liabilities, Chris Webber still averaged 19 a game. If he can get his health back, and if Jim O'Brien can tweak the system enough to accomodate him... Webber is still capable of being a dominant player.

But AI is great. I love how he has now become beloved by the community, after years of him being ostracized and criticized.
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Old 05-10-05, 03:20 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Aphex Twin
Iverson DOES have a good supporting cast-- Webber, Igoudala, Dalembert etc....

You put Kobe, McGrady, or Lebron on that team instead of Iverson and it would have done much better than it did.
Webber sucks. Iguodala is good, but he made the rookie mistakes and wasn't good every night. Dalambert is good, but not that good.

As for Kobe... you honestly telling me that Kobe had less around him than Iverson does?
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Old 05-10-05, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by WildcatLH
As for Kobe... you honestly telling me that Kobe had less around him than Iverson does?
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your question, but where did I imply that?
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Old 05-10-05, 03:38 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by WildcatLH
Webber sucks. Iguodala is good, but he made the rookie mistakes and wasn't good every night. Dalambert is good, but not that good.

As for Kobe... you honestly telling me that Kobe had less around him than Iverson does?
I think Iverson has more young talent around him than Kobe... but it's not like the players on the Lakers are all that slack. Lamar Odom was an All-Star last year... Caron Butler can play... Brian Grant and Brian Cook are pretty good... but the team imploded down the stretch thanks to Bryant's massive ego.
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Old 05-10-05, 03:47 PM
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Year after year in every sport, people tend to forget that the "V" in MVP stands for valuable. While the winner generally does put up big numbers in various statistical categories, the biggest numbers do not have to be a precursor to winning the award. Being the best player does not have to be a precursor to winning the award. Nash won the award because more voters felt he had higher value to his team and its success than Shaq, Duncan, Iverson, McGrady, etc. Nash ran the highest scoring offense in the league, making virtually every decision for his team while on the floor.


Was Nash the best player in the NBA this year? Nope! Many were statistically better.

Was Nash the best player on his team this year? Nope! That would be Amare.

Was Nash the most valuable player to his team this year? You betcha! Couldn't do anywhere near what they did without him.

Was Nash more valuable to his team than any other team MVP this year? Damn_skippy!


Now flame me amongst yourselves! I'm trying to get some work done...

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Old 05-10-05, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
I think Iverson has more young talent around him than Kobe... but it's not like the players on the Lakers are all that slack. Lamar Odom was an All-Star last year... Caron Butler can play... Brian Grant and Brian Cook are pretty good... but the team imploded down the stretch thanks to Bryant's massive ego.

I'd agree. The Lakers have almost nothing. And Odom and Grant were hurt a lot of the year too. Iguadola and Dalembert alone make Philly decent. And Webber is still virtually a 20/10 guy despite his shortcomings. Not to mention this is the East, not the West. But Kobe had a bad year last year anyways
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Old 05-10-05, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
"Oh, Amare, I love those shoes. JJ, you did a great job out there tonight. Q, you are just a fabulous dresser."



But to treat your argument seriously... Amare and Joe Johnson both saw their scoring go up, while Quintin Richardson and Shawn Marion saw their scoring go down. As for the Heat... Dwayne Wade and Damon Jones saw their scoring go up, while Eddie Jones and Lamar Odom saw their scoring dip. (Hard to compare from one season to the next, since the composition of these teams changed do much.)
No, you are wrong. Marion's scoring went up. 19.0 PPG last year to 19.4 PPG this year.

As for Q, you also have to consider who he was playing with last year as opposed to this year. Q was carrying the Clips where as, he doesn't need to be a guy that goes out and carries the Suns.
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Old 05-10-05, 04:08 PM
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I think Barkley said it best when the race issue was brought up. He said it's just stupid. Dan Levi-retard is an idiot for writing about it in the Miami Herald. Then they had to waste time on Sportscenter with him and Scoop Jacksom talking about race. I also got a bit fed up when last week on Sportscenter, that idiot Ice Cube said there's racism in the NBA because the white guys own the teams and the black guys play. I can't imagine anyone would prevent a black man from buying a franchise that is for sale. If there really was racism in the league, then they'd be playing more white players regardless of how good they are and preventing the likes of Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, or Lebron James from taking the court. Sorry to get off course here, but the race card is just so damn overplayed.
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Old 05-10-05, 04:12 PM
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What about Robert Johnson who owns the Bobcats? He's black and he's got a bunch of white guys playing for him? Silly Ice Cube.
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Old 05-10-05, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Cartload
I think Barkley said it best when the race issue was brought up. He said it's just stupid. Dan Levi-retard is an idiot for writing about it in the Miami Herald. Then they had to waste time on Sportscenter with him and Scoop Jacksom talking about race. I also got a bit fed up when last week on Sportscenter, that idiot Ice Cube said there's racism in the NBA because the white guys own the teams and the black guys play. I can't imagine anyone would prevent a black man from buying a franchise that is for sale. If there really was racism in the league, then they'd be playing more white players regardless of how good they are and preventing the likes of Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, or Lebron James from taking the court. Sorry to get off course here, but the race card is just so damn overplayed.
It's not until the last 20 years or so that many blacks (and other minorities) have been able to become wealthy enough to own sports franchises. The issue of the number of white vs. black owners will fix itself in time. Also, it's not like leagues can force white guys who've owned their teams for decades to sell to black owners. There's a rather limited supply of franchises.
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Old 05-10-05, 04:20 PM
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Usher, Magic Johnson, Nelly, etc are also black.
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Old 05-10-05, 05:41 PM
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I think the black community has rejected Magic Johnson in favor of Eminem.
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Old 05-10-05, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Meanwhile Dallas, without Nash, actually improved on their record from last year. (Not to say that there weren't other, more compelling reasons -- Dirk Nowitski really came into his own this year, and the coaching change really seemed to help the Mavs.)
Uh, maybe they improved because they added 2 point guards to their roster to replace Nash, in addition to a big man.
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Old 05-10-05, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gilbertr76
Year after year in every sport, people tend to forget that the "V" in MVP stands for valuable. While the winner generally does put up big numbers in various statistical categories, the biggest numbers do not have to be a precursor to winning the award. Being the best player does not have to be a precursor to winning the award. Nash won the award because more voters felt he had higher value to his team and its success than Shaq, Duncan, Iverson, McGrady, etc. Nash ran the highest scoring offense in the league, making virtually every decision for his team while on the floor.


Was Nash the best player in the NBA this year? Nope! Many were statistically better.

Was Nash the best player on his team this year? Nope! That would be Amare.

Was Nash the most valuable player to his team this year? You betcha! Couldn't do anywhere near what they did without him.

Was Nash more valuable to his team than any other team MVP this year? Damn_skippy!


Now flame me amongst yourselves! I'm trying to get some work done...

The best explanation for why he deserved the award. Not saying Shaq didn't, but this explains why Nash did.
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Old 05-10-05, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by LurkerDan
Uh, maybe they improved because they added 2 point guards to their roster to replace Nash, in addition to a big man.
Of course they also dumped Antonie Walker and the new first time all-star and former 6th man of the year Antawn Jamison
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Old 05-11-05, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jericho
Of course they also dumped Antonie Walker and the new first time all-star and former 6th man of the year Antawn Jamison
Both of whom are nothing but scorers. And Antoine Walker brings down every team he is on.
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Old 05-11-05, 11:10 AM
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I thought the funny thing was Kobe didn't get a single vote. Even PJ Brown got 1 vote.

*opens the Kobe/Laker hater floodgates*

Nash deserved it, though. I'd actually give it to Wade over Shaq, but that's just me.
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Old 05-11-05, 11:57 AM
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It was said best on PTI. It's petty to argue against Nash and it's petty to argue for Shaq. Both were 100% deserving.

Since they can't both have it, I'm glad Nash got it.

Nice to see a pass first player get it in the selfish one on one play plagued NBA. Plus the Suns were 2-7 without Nash, and the Heat did ok when Shaq was out.
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Old 05-11-05, 01:09 PM
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Watching the Suns play everyone admires how they play. Upscale and upspeed. Steve Nash leads the charge and I'm proud as hell being Canadian that he won the MVP. It speaks to the good of basketball that this style and these MVP results will cause others to try and mimic it.

To recognize someone for not just for statistical reasons and understand that basketball has other subtleties that are important. Whatever the reason for people choosing Nash, personal reasons, there are collateral results. Many of them are very good ones.

But Shaq was the MVP. Ignoring the direct statistics and looking for other, more subtle reasons, you cannot/should not punish Shaq while not punishing Nash. On offense and defense Shaq is the man. No one else strikes fear into every team that must face him. Nash does not play world class defense. I find it humorous that this is somehow being ignored in most discussions.

Last edited by Preacher; 05-11-05 at 01:23 PM.
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