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Bonds wins 7th MVP Award

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Bonds wins 7th MVP Award

Old 11-15-04, 01:47 PM
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Bonds wins 7th MVP Award

Was there really ever any doubt with the stats he put up this past season?

.362 BA
.609 OBP
232 BB
120 IBB

Pujols and Beltre will have to wait until he retires before they'll ever have a realistic shot at winning one...

Linky to Yahoo Sports article:
Old 11-15-04, 02:14 PM
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He like-a the juice!
Old 11-15-04, 02:18 PM
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Old 11-15-04, 02:20 PM
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I dont see how someone can be "most valuable" to a team that didnt even make the playoffs.
Old 11-15-04, 02:26 PM
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The award isn't "Most Valuable Player on a Playoff team"
Old 11-15-04, 02:28 PM
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i had a conversation at a bar not too long ago (during playoffs) about how bonds numbers were skewed because of his small # of at bats. and how he wasn't really that good.

guy also insisted that he was still getting as many good pitches to hit as anyone else in the at bats that he WASN'T walked. he said no one would just pitch around him if they were pitching to him they would challenge him.

we seriously had this argument for 30 minutes...

normally i would have just played it off as a dumb ass... but this guy had a PHD and had played college ball in the big 10.
Old 11-15-04, 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by MJKTool
I dont see how someone can be "most valuable" to a team that didnt even make the playoffs.
Because the team was in contention for the playoff spot until the last week. Whereas without him, they would have most likely been 20-30 games worse?

Projected to 600 AB:

Pujols: 133 R, 196 H, 46 HR, 123 RBI, .331 Avg
Beltre: 104 R, 200 H, 48 HR, 121 RBI, .334 Avg
Bonds: 206 R, 216 H, 72 HR, 161 RBI, .362 Avg

Although the runs category is somewhat tainted by AB projections, so ignore that one. The above stats give great indication to just how offensively awesome Bonds would be if pitchers didn't walk him intentionally (and semi-intentionally) 40% of the time.

People can hate on Bonds all they want, but let's be realistic here. There isn't a player here who alters the course of game like Bonds does -- even when he's not at bat.

Milwaukee's asst. general manager on Bonds:

"When you play the Giants, you're worried about him when he's up. You're also worried about the bottom of the lineup because you don't want him to come up again.

"You're always worried about the guy. Even when he's not up, you're worried about him."
Old 11-15-04, 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by moorehed


guy also insisted that he was still getting as many good pitches to hit as anyone else in the at bats that he WASN'T walked. he said no one would just pitch around him if they were pitching to him they would challenge him.

normally i would have just played it off as a dumb ass... but this guy had a PHD and had played college ball in the big 10.
Doesn't take a brainiac to figure out that if you're anywhere above a .250 hitter, you'll only see one or two pitches per at-bat that are decent pitches to hit. This goes for anyone in the ML that's a semi-ok hitter or better.

Did I mention that Bonds only struck out 33x this season -- a number that's very close to respected hitting gurus like Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn? Yet Boggs and Gwynn never had the power.
Old 11-15-04, 02:38 PM
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At least Pujols didn't come in second this time.
Old 11-15-04, 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by LurkerDan
The award isn't "Most Valuable Player on a Playoff team"
The whole point of the season is to get to the Playoff's and eventually the World Series. So again the Giants didnt even get to the Playoff's so what the hell was he most valuable at doing for this team?
Old 11-15-04, 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by El Scorcho
Because the team was in contention for the playoff spot until the last week. Whereas without him, they would have most likely been 20-30 games worse?

Who gives a shit? Give the award to someone who DID get his team to the Playoff's.
Old 11-15-04, 02:44 PM
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Dude, you can't penalize someone because they're 4% of a 25-man roster and the other 92% are one giant AAA team (outside of Jason Schmidt). That's a stupid philosophy.

Your philosophy leaves open the possiblity of a fictional player hitting .400, 82 HR, 212 RBI and not getting the MVP because his team didn't make the playoffs. Doesn't that seem absurd to you?
Old 11-15-04, 02:47 PM
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Why does this non-news deserve its own thread?
Old 11-15-04, 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by MJKTool
The whole point of the season is to get to the Playoff's and eventually the World Series. So again the Giants didnt even get to the Playoff's so what the hell was he most valuable at doing for this team?
well, you could say the whole point of baseball is to generate $. he probably generated more money for his team AND other teams than the rest of his team combined.

honestly how much less would the giants have seen in ticket sales without bonds? 1/2?
Old 11-15-04, 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by El Scorcho
Dude, you can't penalize someone because they're 4% of a 25-man roster and the other 92% are one giant AAA team (outside of Jason Schmidt). That's a stupid philosophy.

Your philosophy leaves open the possiblity of a fictional player hitting .400, 82 HR, 212 RBI and not getting the MVP because his team didn't make the playoffs. Doesn't that seem absurd to you?
No not really. Maybe the MLB should rename the award BSP (best stat player) then to go along with your line of reasoning. Whats the point of stroking if you can't pop?
Old 11-15-04, 02:54 PM
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Perhaps on the road, moorehed.

But the 81 home games in SF would have most likely been sold out or > 90% capacity. Giants fans are pretty loyal and show up to the stadium even when the team sucks. And with a stadium as gorgeous as Pac Bell, who can blame them?

The MVP, to me, is defined as the player who does the most to get his team more victories than any other player.

If Pujols is replaced by your average 1B, do the Cards still make the playoffs? You bet.

If Beltre is replaced by your average 3B, do the Dodgers still make the playoffs? Probably, but it would be close.

If Bonds is replaced by your average LF, do the Giants come anywhere close to making the playoffs. Hell no. Instead, he brought them to the final week.

Toolboy, go back to the laker threads.
Old 11-15-04, 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by MJKTool
No not really. Maybe the MLB should rename the award BSP (best stat player) then to go along with your line of reasoning. Whats the point of stroking if you can't pop?
Best Stat Player is pretty much synonymous with MVP. See my definition that I just posted.
Old 11-15-04, 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by El Scorcho
Best Stat Player is pretty much synonymous with MVP. See my definition that I just posted.
Then Bonds didnt win in overall stats.
Old 11-15-04, 02:59 PM
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Actually that's the Silver Slugger award, but I do agree with you.
Old 11-15-04, 02:59 PM
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MJKTool

so what the hell was he most valuable at doing for this team?
Getting them very, very close to making the playoffs when without him, they would have been one of the worst teams in the league. That's worth something. You may have an argument with a great player on a last place team that's doing nothing, but not when they get as close as they did. Consider a player hitting 1.000 with 100 HRs and 300 RBIs. In a one-game playoff in a tied division, he goes 5-5 for 4 grand slams. Up 20-19 in the ninth, the right fielder drops the final out and boots it allowing 2 runs to score, losing the game. Is this scenario absurd? Of course it is. However, it's also absurd to draw a hard line that says if the right fielder catches the ball, the player is the MVP; if not, he doesn't "qualify." It's not that black and white. The MVP is for the guy who had the biggest individual impact on his team giving them the best chance to succeed. How the team finishes the season is a factor, but it's only one of many. I agree that the MVP is not the MOP, but it's not the "Best Player on a Playoff Team" award either.

das
Old 11-15-04, 02:59 PM
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See my projections.

Give the three players the same amount of realistic chances to hit the ball (i.e. remove all intentional walks), and Bonds blows everyone in the game away.
Old 11-15-04, 03:10 PM
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I'm not really sure I get the arguement here. No one player was more valuable to his team than Bonds. Period. Would he be more deserving had he made it to the playoffs and bit the big one in the first round?
Old 11-15-04, 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Mad Dawg
I'm not really sure I get the arguement here. No one player was more valuable to his team than Bonds. Period. Would he be more deserving had he made it to the playoffs and bit the big one in the first round?
Ahh yes, the Chipper Jones Award.
Old 11-15-04, 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
The MVP is for the guy who had the biggest individual impact on his team giving them the best chance to succeed.
Is that an MLB definition or a das Monkey definition?
Old 11-15-04, 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by Mad Dawg
No one player was more valuable to his team than Bonds. Period.
I'm sure the Dodgers would disagree with you.

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