Bonds wins 7th MVP Award
11-15-04, 06:27 PM
#76
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Originally posted by El Scorcho
Tool, you're big time reaching now, thinking Bonds would have not produced a single RBI or HR in 225 extra at-bats. Just concede defeat and move on.
Tool, you're big time reaching now, thinking Bonds would have not produced a single RBI or HR in 225 extra at-bats. Just concede defeat and move on.
11-15-04, 06:32 PM
#77
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It doesn't make you crazy, sure.
What makes you crazy is to assume things like Bonds getting 0 production out of 225 extra at-bats. And to give Beltre an advantage because his teammates were better than Bonds' teammates.
Do you realize that if Dustin Hermanson (Giants closer) had not sucked so hard for just 2 or 3 games, the Giants would have been in the playoffs and the Dodgers would have been sent home earlier?
So in essence, Dustin Hermanson leaving a few hanging breaking balls over the plate made Beltre a more valuable player to his team than Bonds? And you support this theory?
I use Dustin Hermanson because the Giants finished 2 games back of LA and Hermanson blew three saves -- including one crucial one at Dodger Stadium on the final weekend that would have sent the race into a last-day situation.
What makes you crazy is to assume things like Bonds getting 0 production out of 225 extra at-bats. And to give Beltre an advantage because his teammates were better than Bonds' teammates.
Do you realize that if Dustin Hermanson (Giants closer) had not sucked so hard for just 2 or 3 games, the Giants would have been in the playoffs and the Dodgers would have been sent home earlier?
So in essence, Dustin Hermanson leaving a few hanging breaking balls over the plate made Beltre a more valuable player to his team than Bonds? And you support this theory?
I use Dustin Hermanson because the Giants finished 2 games back of LA and Hermanson blew three saves -- including one crucial one at Dodger Stadium on the final weekend that would have sent the race into a last-day situation.
11-15-04, 06:38 PM
#78
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Originally posted by MJKTool
Says who? He could have grounded out, lined out or flew out for the remaining 148 AB.
Says who? He could have grounded out, lined out or flew out for the remaining 148 AB.
That was merely a hypothetical, taking Adam Dunn's stats (SO, HR, and RBI) and averaging them out over 225 AB.
11-15-04, 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by El Scorcho
It doesn't make you crazy, sure.
What makes you crazy is to assume things like Bonds getting 0 production out of 225 extra at-bats.
It doesn't make you crazy, sure.
What makes you crazy is to assume things like Bonds getting 0 production out of 225 extra at-bats.
11-15-04, 06:41 PM
#80
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by MJKTool
Much like your projected numbers, my situations could apply as well.
Much like your projected numbers, my situations could apply as well.
Your situation = based on ... hate?
11-15-04, 07:53 PM
#82
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Originally posted by MJKTool
If people would have the brass to stick up and side with me instead of hiding and "going with the flow" then I wouldnt need to go at this alone.
If people would have the brass to stick up and side with me instead of hiding and "going with the flow" then I wouldnt need to go at this alone.
11-15-04, 07:55 PM
#83
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Originally posted by MJKTool
If people would have the brass to stick up and side with me instead of hiding and "going with the flow" then I wouldnt need to go at this alone. But it is something that can and will be debated. It does not make one crazy to defend the position that Bonds doesnt necessarily have to unanimously win this award. Other factors play into this.
If people would have the brass to stick up and side with me instead of hiding and "going with the flow" then I wouldnt need to go at this alone. But it is something that can and will be debated. It does not make one crazy to defend the position that Bonds doesnt necessarily have to unanimously win this award. Other factors play into this.
11-15-04, 08:01 PM
#84
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Originally posted by Jericho
You know what's crazy? Randy Johnson not winning the Cy Young! :P Seriously though, I don't think there is anyone out there that agrees with you that's merely hiding. They just don't exist. Maybe you can find out who voted against Bonds and get them in here. But I doubt their reasons would be any better...
You know what's crazy? Randy Johnson not winning the Cy Young! :P Seriously though, I don't think there is anyone out there that agrees with you that's merely hiding. They just don't exist. Maybe you can find out who voted against Bonds and get them in here. But I doubt their reasons would be any better...
Do they ever list who voted for whom? They should. Some guy picked Bonds as 3rd.
11-15-04, 08:10 PM
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I can't believe this thread is to 4 pages. What is the debate about??!!! Look at OPS - Bonds compared to #2. #2 compared to #3. Nuff said.
edit: not to mention the Runs Created (and RC/27) numbers. Astounding.
edit: not to mention the Runs Created (and RC/27) numbers. Astounding.
Last edited by Red Dog; 11-15-04 at 08:18 PM.
11-15-04, 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Red Dog
I can't believe this thread is to 4 pages. What is the debate about??!!! Look at OPS - Bonds compared to #2. #2 compared to #3. Nuff said.
edit: not to mention the Runs Created (and RC/27) numbers. Astounding.
I can't believe this thread is to 4 pages. What is the debate about??!!! Look at OPS - Bonds compared to #2. #2 compared to #3. Nuff said.
edit: not to mention the Runs Created (and RC/27) numbers. Astounding.
11-15-04, 10:22 PM
#90
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Originally posted by LurkerDan
yeah, compare the OPS gap from Bonds to #2, then find the player who is that same gap below #2. It's probably someone like Cezar Izturis.
yeah, compare the OPS gap from Bonds to #2, then find the player who is that same gap below #2. It's probably someone like Cezar Izturis.
1. Bonds 1.422.
2. Helton 1.088 (.334 less than Bonds)
57. Alfonso .757 (.331 less than Helton--closest to .334 without going over)
Beltre, BTW, is #5 at 1.017 (.405 less than Bonds). If you try to find someone who is .405 less than Beltre (OPS of .612) ... he dosn't exist. The lowest OPS among qualified players is Counsell at .645.
11-16-04, 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by namja
Actually, it's Edgardo Alfonzo, who is #57 in OPS.
1. Bonds 1.422.
2. Helton 1.088 (.334 less than Bonds)
57. Alfonso .757 (.331 less than Helton--closest to .334 without going over)
Beltre, BTW, is #5 at 1.017 (.405 less than Bonds). If you try to find someone who is .405 less than Beltre (OPS of .612) ... he dosn't exist. The lowest OPS among qualified players is Counsell at .645.
Actually, it's Edgardo Alfonzo, who is #57 in OPS.
1. Bonds 1.422.
2. Helton 1.088 (.334 less than Bonds)
57. Alfonso .757 (.331 less than Helton--closest to .334 without going over)
Beltre, BTW, is #5 at 1.017 (.405 less than Bonds). If you try to find someone who is .405 less than Beltre (OPS of .612) ... he dosn't exist. The lowest OPS among qualified players is Counsell at .645.
11-16-04, 12:52 AM
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Didn't Andre Dawson win the MVP award in '87 with a mediocre Cubs team?
Bonds deserves it.
p.s. MJKTool's argument against Bonds is hilariously bad.
Bonds deserves it.
p.s. MJKTool's argument against Bonds is hilariously bad.
Last edited by the aftermath; 11-16-04 at 12:58 AM.
11-16-04, 01:32 AM
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Bonds' season was unparalleled statistically. He hit .362 to win his second NL batting title in three seasons and shattered the major league record with a .609 on-base percentage, topping the previous mark of .582 he set two years ago.
He walked 232 times, 34 more than the previous record he set in 2002 and more than 100 better than anyone else in baseball this season, and his 120 intentional walks obliterated the old mark of 68, also set by Bonds in 2002.
Bonds hit 45 homers in 373 at-bats, while Beltre hit a major league-leading 48 in 598 at-bats and Pujols had 46 in 592.
He walked 232 times, 34 more than the previous record he set in 2002 and more than 100 better than anyone else in baseball this season, and his 120 intentional walks obliterated the old mark of 68, also set by Bonds in 2002.
Bonds hit 45 homers in 373 at-bats, while Beltre hit a major league-leading 48 in 598 at-bats and Pujols had 46 in 592.
11-16-04, 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by the aftermath
Didn't Andre Dawson win the MVP award in '87 with a mediocre Cubs team?
Bonds deserves it.
p.s. MJKTool's argument against Bonds is hilariously bad.
Didn't Andre Dawson win the MVP award in '87 with a mediocre Cubs team?
Bonds deserves it.
p.s. MJKTool's argument against Bonds is hilariously bad.
I do think how well the team does should play a role, but as has been pointed out here ad nauseum, the Giants were in the race down to the last weekend, and would have been 20 games back without Bonds. It's not like he played for a last place team or even a mediocre team.
Oh, wait, he did! And that mediocre last place team almost manged to make the playoffs because of him!
11-16-04, 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by namja
When you're looking at the whole season, what's more important? Number of hits or the batting average?
When you're looking at the whole season, what's more important? Number of hits or the batting average?
11-17-04, 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by Thrush
Bonds' season was unparalleled statistically. He hit .362 to win his second NL batting title in three seasons and shattered the major league record with a .609 on-base percentage, topping the previous mark of .582 he set two years ago.
He walked 232 times, 34 more than the previous record he set in 2002 and more than 100 better than anyone else in baseball this season, and his 120 intentional walks obliterated the old mark of 68, also set by Bonds in 2002.
Bonds hit 45 homers in 373 at-bats, while Beltre hit a major league-leading 48 in 598 at-bats and Pujols had 46 in 592.
Bonds' season was unparalleled statistically. He hit .362 to win his second NL batting title in three seasons and shattered the major league record with a .609 on-base percentage, topping the previous mark of .582 he set two years ago.
He walked 232 times, 34 more than the previous record he set in 2002 and more than 100 better than anyone else in baseball this season, and his 120 intentional walks obliterated the old mark of 68, also set by Bonds in 2002.
Bonds hit 45 homers in 373 at-bats, while Beltre hit a major league-leading 48 in 598 at-bats and Pujols had 46 in 592.
And Bonds should have even more intentional walks than the official numbers. We've all seen the intentional unintentianal walk so many times this season. This is why even if the intentional walk was gone, he would still get a ridiculous amount of walks.
11-17-04, 05:40 AM
#98
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Originally posted by mvc
No doubt about it. I can't believe people have argued against Bonds in this thread (guessing they're all Dodger fans).
No doubt about it. I can't believe people have argued against Bonds in this thread (guessing they're all Dodger fans).
11-17-04, 07:56 AM
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bonds deserves it, can't stand him, but he should have won based only on the fact that his team sucks and would have been way worse without him.
pujols, whom I would have liked to see win, has too much talent around him to get this award.
pujols, whom I would have liked to see win, has too much talent around him to get this award.
