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Bonds wins 7th MVP Award

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Bonds wins 7th MVP Award

Old 11-15-04, 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by El Scorcho
Tool, you're big time reaching now, thinking Bonds would have not produced a single RBI or HR in 225 extra at-bats. Just concede defeat and move on.
If people would have the brass to stick up and side with me instead of hiding and "going with the flow" then I wouldnt need to go at this alone. But it is something that can and will be debated. It does not make one crazy to defend the position that Bonds doesnt necessarily have to unanimously win this award. Other factors play into this.
Old 11-15-04, 06:32 PM
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It doesn't make you crazy, sure.

What makes you crazy is to assume things like Bonds getting 0 production out of 225 extra at-bats. And to give Beltre an advantage because his teammates were better than Bonds' teammates.

Do you realize that if Dustin Hermanson (Giants closer) had not sucked so hard for just 2 or 3 games, the Giants would have been in the playoffs and the Dodgers would have been sent home earlier?

So in essence, Dustin Hermanson leaving a few hanging breaking balls over the plate made Beltre a more valuable player to his team than Bonds? And you support this theory?

I use Dustin Hermanson because the Giants finished 2 games back of LA and Hermanson blew three saves -- including one crucial one at Dodger Stadium on the final weekend that would have sent the race into a last-day situation.
Old 11-15-04, 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by MJKTool
Says who? He could have grounded out, lined out or flew out for the remaining 148 AB.
Says Adam Dunn.

That was merely a hypothetical, taking Adam Dunn's stats (SO, HR, and RBI) and averaging them out over 225 AB.
Old 11-15-04, 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by El Scorcho
It doesn't make you crazy, sure.

What makes you crazy is to assume things like Bonds getting 0 production out of 225 extra at-bats.
I'm just throwing the possiblity out there, sure some may say it's "out there", but much like Rosa Parks, I have to break the "standard mold" and face these issues with an open mind. Perhaps Bond's would have become a mindless drunk who couldn't hit a fast ball in a batting cage if his life depended on it. Much like your projected numbers, my situations could apply as well.
Old 11-15-04, 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by MJKTool
Much like your projected numbers, my situations could apply as well.
Projected numbers = based on stats.

Your situation = based on ... hate?
Old 11-15-04, 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by namja
Your situation = based on ... hate?
based on Rosa Parks. Can't you read?
Old 11-15-04, 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by MJKTool
If people would have the brass to stick up and side with me instead of hiding and "going with the flow" then I wouldnt need to go at this alone.
have you considered the possibility that no one agrees with you?
Old 11-15-04, 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by MJKTool
If people would have the brass to stick up and side with me instead of hiding and "going with the flow" then I wouldnt need to go at this alone. But it is something that can and will be debated. It does not make one crazy to defend the position that Bonds doesnt necessarily have to unanimously win this award. Other factors play into this.
You know what's crazy? Randy Johnson not winning the Cy Young! :P Seriously though, I don't think there is anyone out there that agrees with you that's merely hiding. They just don't exist. Maybe you can find out who voted against Bonds and get them in here. But I doubt their reasons would be any better...
Old 11-15-04, 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by Jericho
You know what's crazy? Randy Johnson not winning the Cy Young! :P Seriously though, I don't think there is anyone out there that agrees with you that's merely hiding. They just don't exist. Maybe you can find out who voted against Bonds and get them in here. But I doubt their reasons would be any better...

Do they ever list who voted for whom? They should. Some guy picked Bonds as 3rd.
Old 11-15-04, 08:05 PM
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that person should lose their voting rights
Old 11-15-04, 08:10 PM
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I can't believe this thread is to 4 pages. What is the debate about??!!! Look at OPS - Bonds compared to #2. #2 compared to #3. Nuff said.


edit: not to mention the Runs Created (and RC/27) numbers. Astounding.

Last edited by Red Dog; 11-15-04 at 08:18 PM.
Old 11-15-04, 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by LurkerDan
based on Rosa Parks. Can't you read?
MJKTool hater.
Old 11-15-04, 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by namja
Your situation = based on ... hate?
Based on strings actually...
Old 11-15-04, 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Red Dog
I can't believe this thread is to 4 pages. What is the debate about??!!! Look at OPS - Bonds compared to #2. #2 compared to #3. Nuff said.


edit: not to mention the Runs Created (and RC/27) numbers. Astounding.
yeah, compare the OPS gap from Bonds to #2, then find the player who is that same gap below #2. It's probably someone like Cezar Izturis.
Old 11-15-04, 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by LurkerDan
yeah, compare the OPS gap from Bonds to #2, then find the player who is that same gap below #2. It's probably someone like Cezar Izturis.
Actually, it's Edgardo Alfonzo, who is #57 in OPS.

1. Bonds 1.422.
2. Helton 1.088 (.334 less than Bonds)
57. Alfonso .757 (.331 less than Helton--closest to .334 without going over)

Beltre, BTW, is #5 at 1.017 (.405 less than Bonds). If you try to find someone who is .405 less than Beltre (OPS of .612) ... he dosn't exist. The lowest OPS among qualified players is Counsell at .645.
Old 11-15-04, 10:31 PM
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Why is this thread still going? These are some of the weakest "arguments" I have ever seen .
Old 11-16-04, 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by namja
Actually, it's Edgardo Alfonzo, who is #57 in OPS.

1. Bonds 1.422.
2. Helton 1.088 (.334 less than Bonds)
57. Alfonso .757 (.331 less than Helton--closest to .334 without going over)

Beltre, BTW, is #5 at 1.017 (.405 less than Bonds). If you try to find someone who is .405 less than Beltre (OPS of .612) ... he dosn't exist. The lowest OPS among qualified players is Counsell at .645.
[MJKTool]Rosa Parks, man, that's all I'm saying[/MJKTool]
Old 11-16-04, 12:52 AM
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Didn't Andre Dawson win the MVP award in '87 with a mediocre Cubs team?

Bonds deserves it.

p.s. MJKTool's argument against Bonds is hilariously bad.

Last edited by the aftermath; 11-16-04 at 12:58 AM.
Old 11-16-04, 01:32 AM
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Bonds' season was unparalleled statistically. He hit .362 to win his second NL batting title in three seasons and shattered the major league record with a .609 on-base percentage, topping the previous mark of .582 he set two years ago.

He walked 232 times, 34 more than the previous record he set in 2002 and more than 100 better than anyone else in baseball this season, and his 120 intentional walks obliterated the old mark of 68, also set by Bonds in 2002.

Bonds hit 45 homers in 373 at-bats, while Beltre hit a major league-leading 48 in 598 at-bats and Pujols had 46 in 592.
Old 11-16-04, 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by the aftermath
Didn't Andre Dawson win the MVP award in '87 with a mediocre Cubs team?

Bonds deserves it.

p.s. MJKTool's argument against Bonds is hilariously bad.
Hell, ARod won it last year on a last place team!

I do think how well the team does should play a role, but as has been pointed out here ad nauseum, the Giants were in the race down to the last weekend, and would have been 20 games back without Bonds. It's not like he played for a last place team or even a mediocre team.

Oh, wait, he did! And that mediocre last place team almost manged to make the playoffs because of him!
Old 11-16-04, 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by namja
When you're looking at the whole season, what's more important? Number of hits or the batting average?
Tony Torcato for MVP!!!!!
Old 11-17-04, 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by Thrush
Bonds' season was unparalleled statistically. He hit .362 to win his second NL batting title in three seasons and shattered the major league record with a .609 on-base percentage, topping the previous mark of .582 he set two years ago.

He walked 232 times, 34 more than the previous record he set in 2002 and more than 100 better than anyone else in baseball this season, and his 120 intentional walks obliterated the old mark of 68, also set by Bonds in 2002.

Bonds hit 45 homers in 373 at-bats, while Beltre hit a major league-leading 48 in 598 at-bats and Pujols had 46 in 592.
No doubt about it. I can't believe people have argued against Bonds in this thread (guessing they're all Dodger fans). He may not be well-liked, but this year he's been pretty open. He did a lot more press conferences than in previous years and opened a bit to the media, to the point where he jokes around.

And Bonds should have even more intentional walks than the official numbers. We've all seen the intentional unintentianal walk so many times this season. This is why even if the intentional walk was gone, he would still get a ridiculous amount of walks.
Old 11-17-04, 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by mvc
No doubt about it. I can't believe people have argued against Bonds in this thread (guessing they're all Dodger fans).
not people/they... its person/he
Old 11-17-04, 07:56 AM
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bonds deserves it, can't stand him, but he should have won based only on the fact that his team sucks and would have been way worse without him.

pujols, whom I would have liked to see win, has too much talent around him to get this award.

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