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Appeals court issues stay for the NFL; Clarett, Mike Williams out of draft

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Appeals court issues stay for the NFL; Clarett, Mike Williams out of draft

Old 04-19-04, 03:13 PM
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Appeals court issues stay for the NFL; Clarett, Mike Williams out of draft

No link yet... just heard it on SportsCenter's NFL Draft Special.
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Old 04-19-04, 03:24 PM
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Awesome.

1. I didn't like the idea as I liked the "3 years removed from high school" rule. Anyone younger than that is simply not physically and/or mentally ready for the NFL.

2. Rumors had the Raider's considering Williams over Fitzgerald, which would have been a HUGE blunder IMO. No hopefully they're smart enough to take Fitzgerald and not Roy Williams.
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Old 04-19-04, 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
1. I didn't like the idea as I liked the "3 years removed from high school" rule. Anyone younger than that is simply not physically and/or mentally ready for the NFL.
Just to play devil's advocate here, why not? There have been several professional sports figures in both the MLB and NBA that have come out of HS and have been very successful. Why is the NFL any different?
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Old 04-19-04, 03:30 PM
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hmmm
but will the decision still be in effect at the time of the draft?
probably wont be able to get it appealed/repealed

this could be really bad for mike williams though.. if he was expecting to be able to be drafted.. he probably has already hired an agent and started spending money.. now he wont be able to go back to school
clarett was pretty much a lost cause regardless.
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Old 04-19-04, 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
Just to play devil's advocate here, why not? There have been several professional sports figures in both the MLB and NBA that have come out of HS and have been very successful. Why is the NFL any different?
The NFL is a very different game, both mentally and physically, than the NBA (not considering the MLB since there's a minor league). It's a very, very rare 18 or 19 year old who's ready, mentally and physically, for the NFL.
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Old 04-19-04, 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by twikoff
hmmm
but will the decision still be in effect at the time of the draft?
probably wont be able to get it appealed/repealed

this could be really bad for mike williams though.. if he was expecting to be able to be drafted.. he probably has already hired an agent and started spending money.. now he wont be able to go back to school
clarett was pretty much a lost cause regardless.
The NCAA has already suggested that he'd probably be able to appeal his way back in (Williams). I'm sure they've been thinking of this possibility.
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Old 04-19-04, 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
Awesome.

Rumors had the Raider's considering Williams over Fitzgerald, which would have been a HUGE blunder IMO. No hopefully they're smart enough to take Fitzgerald and not Roy Williams.
No. The Raiders are looking at Roy Williams, Gallery, or moving down.
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Old 04-19-04, 03:39 PM
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Link
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/d...ory?id=1785560

NEW YORK -- A stay was granted Monday by a federal appeals court until it rules on the NFL's appeal of an earlier decision that allowed Maurice Clarett and eventually Mike Williams to be part of the draft, ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli reports.


A stay in the proceedings technically will keep Clarett and Williams out of the draft Saturday at least temporarily, but a ruling could come down in their favor beforehand, which would make both eligible to be selected. If Clarett and Williams are declared eligible for the draft after it takes place, the NFL already has said the two would be part of a supplemental draft.


The ruling was faxed to all parties in the case only hours after the court heard the league's arguments, Pasquarelli reports. The ruling is expected to be announced later Monday afternoon. It's possible that Clarett, Williams and seven other undistinguished underclassmen could seek further recourse from the courts, but more unlikely that they can have the stay overturned before the draft begins.


Sources told Pasquarelli that there is a possibility that the parties could arrive at a middle ground -- perhaps a settlement that would permit Clarett and Williams to be included in a supplemental draft.


Federal appeals court judges and an NFL lawyer suggested that Clarett could go into a supplemental draft if he's ruled out of the main draft. The issue of the supplemental draft came up after the three judges questioned Clarett's lawyer, Alan Milstein, about whether the NFL must accept players who don't meet negotiated eligibility rules.


Judge Lewis A. Kaplan asked Milstein why the NFL cannot exclude young athletes, suggesting the league was saying, "It's good for them, good for us and in the long run good for the sport."


Judge Sonia Sotomayer said it was not surprising that the union would agree to exclude players such as Clarett. "That's what unions do every day -- protect people in the union from those not in the union," she said.


Clarett, who played as a freshman at Ohio State and was ineligible as a sophomore, challenged the NFL rule that requires a player to be out of high school for three years before entering the draft. Southern Cal sophomore Mike Williams, who declared for the draft after a lower court ruled in Clarett's favor, also would be affected if the appeals court blocks Clarett.


Seven others also declared for the draft after the initial ruling, but none is a prospect.


Some kind of ruling is expected from the appeals court before the NFL draft, which is Saturday and Sunday.


U.S. District Court Judge Shira Scheindlin ruled in February that Clarett should be allowed in the draft. She said the rule excluding him violates antitrust law and unjustly blocks a player from pursuing his livelihood.


The appeals court could temporarily suspend Scheindlin's ruling until it issues its own full written decision. NFL lawyer Gregg A. Levy confirmed Monday what league officials said earlier: If a subsequent ruling makes Clarett eligible, the league later could hold a supplemental draft, something the NFL has done in the past for players who entered the draft late.


Ohio State suspended Clarett before last season for accepting money from a family friend and for lying about it to NCAA and university investigators.


In 2003, he rushed for 1,237 yards and led the Buckeyes to a national championship.


Clarett maintained he was not subject to the NFL's "three years out of high school" rule because it was not properly negotiated and because he was not in the union.


Milstein said Monday the NFL can't argue that players such as Clarett are not physically ready to play professionally. Williams is expected to be a first-round pick Saturday; Clarett is expected to be chosen in the second or third round.


"The teams are lining up to hire these guys ... because the teams know these players are ready to play," Milstein said.


He said only a "group boycott" by NFL teams would keep Clarett out of the league.


Milstein also argued that the NFL uses colleges as a "free and efficient" farm system for developing players.


"All of the risk is on the player," he wrote in court papers. "College football is a willing partner in this arrangement, as it generates millions of dollars for the colleges without their having to incur the expense of player salaries."


In written arguments, Levy told the appeals court that Scheindlin's ruling was "fundamentally inconsistent with both established economic principles and common sense."


He said the judge "strained to reach a decision that not only cannot be justified under this court's precedents but is also economically senseless."
Can someone please explain to me what the supplemental draft is and what the format is?
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Old 04-19-04, 03:40 PM
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I thought the NFL said Williams was okay anyway since he went to some academy 2 years ago.
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Old 04-19-04, 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by DVD Josh
No. The Raiders are looking at Roy Williams, Gallery, or moving down.
raiders need to either take gallery or trade down

this draft is way too deep in the WR position to pass up a player like gallery
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Old 04-19-04, 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by Cusm
I thought the NFL said Williams was okay anyway since he went to some academy 2 years ago.
That was Larry Fitzgerald
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Old 04-19-04, 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
Just to play devil's advocate here, why not? There have been several professional sports figures in both the MLB and NBA that have come out of HS and have been very successful. Why is the NFL any different?
Football is a much tougher sport/league than the NBA or MLB. Much more physical contact, and 99.9% of High schoolers aren't going to be able to take that contact from 25-35 year old MEN.

Not to mention that few youngsters play in the MLB, most go to the Minors for a few years, and only a few of the NBAers who went straight from high school have become stars (and even most of those struggled mightily for a few years and are continuing to lower the quality of play IMO by learning the ropes in the pros).
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Old 04-19-04, 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by DVD Josh
No. The Raiders are looking at Roy Williams, Gallery, or moving down.
Figures. They've drafted stupidly in recent years.
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Old 04-19-04, 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
Football is a much tougher sport/league than the NBA or MLB. Much more physical contact, and 99.9% of High schoolers aren't going to be able to take that contact from 25-35 year old MEN.

Not to mention that few youngsters play in the MLB, most go to the Minors for a few years, and only a few of the NBAers who went straight from high school have become stars (and even most of those struggled mightily for a few years and are continuing to lower the quality of play IMO by learning the ropes in the pros).
Again, playing devil's advocate, I can name several HS BB players that were drafted and were stars their first years. Amare, Kobe, Garnett.....

While I don't disagree that football is a bit more team oriented and is probably more difficult physically, what are the chances that this HS drafted player would see alot of time anyway. It's not like they don't have 50 guys on a football team as opposed to a smaller amount for both baseball and basketball.
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Old 04-19-04, 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
Again, playing devil's advocate, I can name several HS BB players that were drafted and were stars their first years. Amare, Kobe, Garnett.....

While I don't disagree that football is a bit more team oriented and is probably more difficult physically, what are the chances that this HS drafted player would see alot of time anyway. It's not like they don't have 50 guys on a football team as opposed to a smaller amount for both baseball and basketball.

True but even your 50th man on the roster (well, not including backup QBs) is likely to see action in a NFL game - this is generally how special teams are filled out. Maybe not a lot of time but they will almost certainly see action, unlike the 12th guy on an NBA team.
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Old 04-19-04, 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
Again, playing devil's advocate, I can name several HS BB players that were drafted and were stars their first years. Amare, Kobe, Garnett.....
Exceptions to the rule. And Kobe wasn't that great his first year or two. Not terrible, but not the same as Amare or LeBron for instance.

For these types there's probably one that struggles for a while before becoming a star and 4 or 5 that never become more than role players or drop totally out of the league.

And as Red Dog says, they're more likely to get at least some playing time in the NFL, even if they're 50th on the depth chart.
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Old 04-19-04, 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
It's not like they don't have 50 guys on a football team as opposed to a smaller amount for both baseball and basketball.
It's the pros though. I think there's alot more to learn in college football (regardless of position) than in college basketball. Offenses and defenses become more complex and, as others alluded to, the guys are so much bigger in the NFL. NFL teams cannot waste a spot on their roster for a guy who they have to baby through 3 or 4 years. Its not worth it when they could get another special teams contributor.

By the way, just to add, I know of someone who's considered a blue chip prospect and is going to Florida next year on a full scholarship. While this kid dominated kids physically at the high school level, he wouldn't last a day in the pros. While there probably exists someone who is a physical speciman and who could make the jump from high school to the NFL, there would be far, far more who would not understand how large a jump it is.
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Old 04-19-04, 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
Again, playing devil's advocate, I can name several HS BB players that were drafted and were stars their first years. Amare, Kobe, Garnett.....
I guess Kobe makes a good case since he's been getting pounded by a 340 pounder since his rookie season.
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Old 04-19-04, 04:30 PM
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No one ever mentions the NHL, which is also a collision sport, and where 18 and 19 year olds consistently play big minutes.

I don't think Mike Williams affects teams picking in the top 6, or even the top 10. The teams most affected are those outside the top 10 looking for WRs, because that's where the trickle down dropoff will be felt.
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Old 04-19-04, 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
2. Rumors had the Raider's considering Williams over Fitzgerald, which would have been a HUGE blunder IMO. No hopefully they're smart enough to take Fitzgerald and not Roy Williams.
Roy Williams will still be in the draft. It is Mike Williams of USC that will be barred from the draft along with Clarett.
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Old 04-19-04, 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by cleaver
No one ever mentions the NHL, which is also a collision sport, and where 18 and 19 year olds consistently play big minutes.

I don't think Mike Williams affects teams picking in the top 6, or even the top 10. The teams most affected are those outside the top 10 looking for WRs, because that's where the trickle down dropoff will be felt.
You're exactly right, it is teams in the mid and late first rounds that will be affected most from this decision.

Unless, people take much stock in the DVDTalk mock draft, which had Clarett going No. 15 to TB...
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Old 04-19-04, 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by cleaver
No one ever mentions the NHL,
Because no one watches it.

Good point though, on the physical aspect. The mental maturity could still be a factor though. Hockey players don't deal with the fame issues as much (hangers on etc.), and make less money in general.

Plus, maybe I'm biased as a hockey hater, but it seems like any easier sport to learn that football, with much less complex offenses and defenses, less plays etc.
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Old 04-19-04, 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by ~~ PAL ~~
Roy Williams will still be in the draft. It is Mike Williams of USC that will be barred from the draft along with Clarett.
I know, that's why I said I hope their smart enough to take Fitzgerald, and not Roy or someone else.

But they're probably not and will probably take the OT, which is a huge mistake IMO.
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Old 04-19-04, 04:42 PM
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The NHL has a well-defined minor league farm system. If the NFL had something like this, then I think the justification for keeping 18 year olds out is lost.
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Old 04-19-04, 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
Figures. They've drafted stupidly in recent years.
They've drafted projects, guys that would probably have been there in R2, R3, but not stupidly. I don't think they can go wrong with Gallery or Roy Williams.
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