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who are the top 5 baseball closers today?

Old 04-13-04, 09:18 PM
  #26  
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Originally posted by rabbit77
what about all time?

I'll say

1) Eck
2) Rivera
3) Smith
Im not going to rank them.. but to help other people remeber some closers.. here are the all time saves leaders in order

Top 10:
L Smith - 478
J Franco - 424
Eckersley - 390 (also had 197 wins, 100 CG, 20 SHO, 2401 Ks)
Reardon - 367
Hoffman - 353
Myers - 347
Fingers - 341 (also had 114 wins)
Wetteland - 330
Hernandez - 320
Aguilera - Gossage

other noteables:
Gossage 310 (124 wins & 1502 Ks)
Wilhelm 227 (143 wins & 1610 Ks)
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Old 04-14-04, 04:13 PM
  #27  
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Originally posted by DarkElf
I'd say he's not even the best reliever on his own team.
Heh. 283 career saves which works out to an average of 31 saves p/season which is the same number Rivera is putting up yet you all consider him a 'top 5' closer. Apparently you guys don't know much about baseball or your oblivious to what he's done throughout his career.
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Old 04-14-04, 04:36 PM
  #28  
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Originally posted by Setzer
Heh. 283 career saves which works out to an average of 31 saves p/season which is the same number Rivera is putting up yet you all consider him a 'top 5' closer. Apparently you guys don't know much about baseball or your oblivious to what he's done throughout his career.
Are you seriously going to argue that Percival is as good as a reliever as Rivera for his career?

But the comment you objected to, and posted these stats in response to, was about Percival's current status, so his career stats are irrelevant.

And before you say I am oblivious to Percival's accomplishments, go back and read my posts in this thread.
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Old 04-14-04, 04:48 PM
  #29  
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Originally posted by Setzer
Heh. 283 career saves which works out to an average of 31 saves p/season which is the same number Rivera is putting up yet you all consider him a 'top 5' closer. Apparently you guys don't know much about baseball or your oblivious to what he's done throughout his career.
Have you considered the postseason?
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Old 04-14-04, 05:01 PM
  #30  
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Originally posted by Bushdog
Have you considered the postseason?
Has Percival blown a save in World Series Game 7 also?
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Old 04-14-04, 05:15 PM
  #31  
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Hoffman's name shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread unless the word "worst" is included in the sentence.


He's a has been.
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Old 04-14-04, 05:24 PM
  #32  
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1. Gagne
2. Smoltz
3. Rivera
4. Foulke
5. Wagner
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Old 04-14-04, 05:28 PM
  #33  
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Originally posted by wabio
Hoffman's name shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread unless the word "worst" is included in the sentence.


He's a has been.
No. He was the best up until about 2000. He was what a closer was during the mid to late 90's. Since he was injured, he hasn't been the same.
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Old 04-14-04, 05:35 PM
  #34  
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Percival has 285 career saves, Rivera 286. Both have had 330 save opps. Rivera has pitched just about 100 more innings then Percival. Percival has 648 career k's, Rivera 586.

Both players have won a World Series. If I recall, both are All-Stars.

Rivera has a 2.49 career ERA, Percival 2.99. Rivera has allowed 520 hits in his career, Percival 350.

It looks to me that Percival is pretty much on par or better then Rivera in all the important stats. So he definitely belongs on the top 5 list. The arguement that he's not 100% so he's not one of the top 5 is crap.

If Bonds were hurt, you think someone would say "Well he's not one of my top 5 hitters, because of his sore hammy or his torn ACL or whatever."
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Old 04-14-04, 05:47 PM
  #35  
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The difference is in the career postseason stats. Rivera hasn't won a World Series, he's won 4. Granted Rivera has more opportunities but no RP has ever been more dominating (take away blowing that game 7 in '01) all-time in the post-season:

Rivera
21 Postseason Series
Games: 61
ERA: 0.75
Record: 7-1
SV: 30
IP: 96.0
H: 60
ER: 8
BB: 12
K: 77
WHIP: 0.75

Percival
3 Postseason Series
Games: 9
ERA: 2.79
Record: 0-0
SV: 7
IP: 9.7
H: 8
ER: 3
BB: 1
K: 10
WHIP: 0.93

Last edited by rabbit77; 04-14-04 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 04-14-04, 06:10 PM
  #36  
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Originally posted by rabbit77
The difference is in the career postseason stats. Rivera hasn't won a World Series, he's won 4. Granted Rivera has more opportunities but no RP has ever been more dominating (take away blowing that game 7 in '01) all-time in the post-season:

Rivera
21 Postseason Series
Games: 61
ERA: 0.75
Record: 7-1
SV: 30
IP: 96.0
H: 60
ER: 8
BB: 12
K: 77
WHIP: 0.75

Percival
3 Postseason Series
Games: 9
ERA: 2.79
Record: 0-0
SV: 7
IP: 9.7
H: 8
ER: 3
BB: 1
K: 10
WHIP: 0.93
Nobody said Percival was the better player, I just said some of his stats were better. If World Series win(s) is/are a guide, then why are Foulke and Wagner on the list? Have they even been to the World Series?
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Old 04-14-04, 06:13 PM
  #37  
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Originally posted by rabbit77
The difference is in the career postseason stats. Rivera hasn't won a World Series, he's won 4. Granted Rivera has more opportunities but no RP has ever been more dominating (take away blowing that game 7 in '01) all-time in the post-season:

Rivera
21 Postseason Series
Games: 61
ERA: 0.75
Record: 7-1
SV: 30
IP: 96.0
H: 60
ER: 8
BB: 12
K: 77
WHIP: 0.75

Percival
3 Postseason Series
Games: 9
ERA: 2.79
Record: 0-0
SV: 7
IP: 9.7
H: 8
ER: 3
BB: 1
K: 10
WHIP: 0.93
I'd also love to see how many of Rivera's postseason saves were more than one inning (it's clear from those stats that Percival's were probably all one inning).

How many saves has Rivera blown in the postseason. I believe it's 1 or 2. Nobody, NOBODY, has ever dominated as a closer in the post-season like he has. And you won't find a single reputable commentator to disagree with that.

Sure, Percival's getting "screwed" because he hasn't pitched as much in the post-season, but that's sports.
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Old 04-14-04, 06:15 PM
  #38  
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Originally posted by LurkerDan
Are you seriously going to argue that Percival is as good as a reliever as Rivera for his career?
Let's look at career stats shall we. Percival and Rivera are both 34 years of age and both started their big league careers in 1995. Stats are through today, April 14, 2004:

PHP Code:
PLAYER        G     IP     H     R      ER     HR     BB     SO     SV     HLD    BLSV      ERA
Percival     529   539.0  350   194    179     56    234    648     285     31     45      2.99
Rivera       516   653.2  520   195    181     37    178    586     286     29     44      2.49 

Yah I'm gonna argue it. Let the numbers speak for themselves.
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Old 04-14-04, 06:18 PM
  #39  
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Originally posted by nickdawgy
It looks to me that Percival is pretty much on par or better then Rivera in all the important stats. So he definitely belongs on the top 5 list. The arguement that he's not 100% so he's not one of the top 5 is crap.

If Bonds were hurt, you think someone would say "Well he's not one of my top 5 hitters, because of his sore hammy or his torn ACL or whatever."
Bull. Percival's injurues have been mentioned as possibly causing him to retire. So I think that's very relevant to whether he's one of the top 5 closers today. If Bonds had a sore hammy, or if Percival had one, no way I'd take him off the list. But if Bonds had a torn ACL, or Percival needed Tommy John surgery, I could easily see someone justifiably saying "no idea when and if they'll ever be back, or ever be at 100%, so no, they're not one of the top 5."
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Old 04-14-04, 06:27 PM
  #40  
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Originally posted by LurkerDan
Sure, Percival's getting "screwed" because he hasn't pitched as much in the post-season, but that's sports.
It's sports and its Owners! Rivera plays for a team where its owner will spend whatever whenever. Percival played for a team which was under the control of Disney throughout most of his career. Disney spent more money on renovating the stadium and giving them an ugly logo than actually bringing in players that made them contenders. I give them credit that they held on to the core that came up through the orginzation there(Percival, Anderson, Salmon, Glaus, & Erstad) but that's about it. It's that core of players and coaches that got them their World Series win in 2002. Disney didn't do jack.
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Old 04-14-04, 06:47 PM
  #41  
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I think calling Rivera a better reliever then Percival based on his post season performance and world series rings is a poor argument. I think thats equivalent to saying Bonds is a knock lower because he hasn't won a ring. You can't fault a player for having fewer chances.

Based on the regular season stats, i still think Rivera is better. But i can see how an argument can be made that Percival is right up there. But like others have said, this is the top 5 closers today... so no, Percival shouldn't be up there.
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Old 04-14-04, 06:54 PM
  #42  
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Originally posted by fumanstan
I think calling Rivera a better reliever then Percival based on his post season performance and world series rings is a poor argument. I think thats equivalent to saying Bonds is a knock lower because he hasn't won a ring. You can't fault a player for having fewer chances.
It's not the rings, per se, at least it isn't for me. It's performing during the most pressure packed time, facing the best teams (and, ergo, hitters), in front of all the world, and utterly dominating.

The ability to step up and perform better than you normally do when it matters most isn't important?
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Old 04-14-04, 07:15 PM
  #43  
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Old 04-14-04, 11:16 PM
  #44  
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Originally posted by LurkerDan
It's not the rings, per se, at least it isn't for me. It's performing during the most pressure packed time, facing the best teams (and, ergo, hitters), in front of all the world, and utterly dominating.

The ability to step up and perform better than you normally do when it matters most isn't important?
No one said it wasn't important, but i wouldn't use it to compare players when the results or skewed towards someone whose been on the better team.

Oh, and i'm a Dodgers fan, not an Angels fan. So in the end, screw Percy, its all about Gagne
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Old 04-14-04, 11:49 PM
  #45  
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Wow I had no idea Percival's numbers were that good
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Old 04-14-04, 11:51 PM
  #46  
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Originally posted by fumanstan
I think calling Rivera a better reliever then Percival based on his post season performance and world series rings is a poor argument. I think thats equivalent to saying Bonds is a knock lower because he hasn't won a ring. You can't fault a player for having fewer chances.

Based on the regular season stats, i still think Rivera is better. But i can see how an argument can be made that Percival is right up there. But like others have said, this is the top 5 closers today... so no, Percival shouldn't be up there.
First of all, winning champtionships matters. But not my argument. Look at how he performed in post-season, that's what matters. He's been dominant.

Could Percival have matched him? Perhaps. Has he matched him -- absolutely not.
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Old 04-15-04, 12:02 AM
  #47  
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playing devil's advocate here, why should a guy be penalized for not pitching in the playoffs? It's his team's fault, not his.
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Old 04-15-04, 12:03 AM
  #48  
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Originally posted by Bushdog
First of all, winning champtionships matters. But not my argument. Look at how he performed in post-season, that's what matters. He's been dominant.

Could Percival have matched him? Perhaps. Has he matched him -- absolutely not.
Has he had the chance to match him -- absolutely not.

Don't get me wrong, i still think Rivera is better, and of course you can't overlook his postseason performance. But i just don't see how you can use that as a comparsion when its so skewed. It's like debating whose better, Kobe or Tracy McGrady, and giving the edge to Kobe simply because he's won while ignoring the fact that he's had Shaq. (Sorry, NBA fan and thats the best example that comes to mind)

Last edited by fumanstan; 04-15-04 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 04-15-04, 12:46 AM
  #49  
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Figures! I'm sticking up for my boy Percy and he's prolly gonna blow it here in the 9th. lol
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Old 04-15-04, 05:25 AM
  #50  
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Good heavens, people, the thread is titled:

Who ARE the top 5 baseball closers today?

ARE means present tense.

Percival has had a great career, no one is arguing that. But that is NOT the question. Until Troy can demonstrate that he's 100% healthy and back to the old Percival we all remember from 2001, he's not in the top 5. Although, considering he has a degenerative hip, that's gonna be a pretty amazing feat.

As for Trevor Hoffman, IMO, his days of being an elite closer are over. In fact, I think the Padres should consider ending the "Hells Bells" ritual this year. He's still a very good closer, perhaps in the top dozen or so, but barely, and the Padres would be wise to buy out his $6M option year for 2005.

Last edited by DarkElf; 04-15-04 at 05:30 AM.
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